Cooling observances

[magratton]

Well, for the past month or so I have been working on building some "dream machines" so to speak for various friends and family (even get to keep one for myself *YAY*). Now by dream machines I mean things average folks would find fantastic. All of them are mobile athlons, overclocked, some of them have great memory and some have not so great. Depended on the person I was building for and what they were after, etc.

Since I was overclocking I have really been paying attention to temperature and cooling solutions. I have in fact become overly observant of it, glancing at the dang mbm toolbar icon every 5 minutes. As I have been setting up systems, I have been thinking about cooling, especially since these systems may live in warm climates and possibly no air conditioning. Hence I wanted to know what would make for the coolest air based system. None of these would have water or phase base cooling. So, here are the three system setup's:
1) Kingwin SW11
4 - 8mm fans (1 side, 2 front, 1 back)
Athlon Mobile 2600 (2400 @ 1.675v, 200FSB)
Speeze Falconrock HSF

2) Antec Sonata
2 - 120mm fans (1 front behind HD Cage, 1 Back)
Athlon Mobile 2500 (2400 @ 1.675v, 200FSB)
Speeze Falconrock HSF

3) Antec SLK3700-BQE
2 - 120mm fans (1 front, 1 back)
Athlon Mobile 2600 (2400 @ 1.675v, 200FSB)
Thermalright SLK-947u, 92mm Vantec Tornado

The rest of the system is basically what you would find in any other general system (1hdd, 1cdrw, 1fdd, 1 video card, etc.)

So what have I been finding? I have to admit, I am a little more than shocked, and that is what is really driving me to write this. The Kingwin is cooling the pants off of all of the other setup's. The other two systems run at ~41C idle and 48C under prime95 load. The odd thing is that I noticed the Kingwin with the Speeze Falconrock is actually 3 degree's cooler than the same case with the Thermalright setup on it, even when running at full power (as opposed to using the "Fan Only" power cable from the Antec True430). So this ~$10 heatsink seems to be doing as good of a job at a decent overclock as the expensive thermalright solution at ~$50.

I guess I am just a little more than surprised, especially since I have seen quite a few people rave about the SLK3700-BQE, and certainly many on the overclocker's forum would state that the Thermalright heatsinks are the best thing going.

Lastly, lets consider the cost of each setup:
1) Kingwin: PSU - $50, Case $75, Heatsink: ~$10 => Total: $135
2) Antec Sonata: Case(PSU included) $90, Heatsink: ~10 => Total: $100
3) Antec SLK3700BQE: Case(PSU included) $75, Heatsink + fan: $50=> Total: $125

So taking this all into accound, I guess it seems you get what you pay for. The $135 Kingwin setup runs the coolest, then the SLK3700BQE, lastly the Sonata.

 

[Bobalude]

could it be that one of the side fans blows directly near the area for the case temperature sensor?

also post the fan speeds and airflow amounts, as they are big variables in the performance.

 

[Dman877]

Same mobo in all 3? 3C is well within the margin of error for different mobo's, maybe even the same mobo. Also, were ambient temps the same when you did all 3?

BTW: Neither of theose antecs are really designed for overclocking imo. You're better off ocing in a P160 or one of the tall 10X0 cases. We need dba measurements to get the full picture.

 

[Cerb]

1. Socket or diode? If socket, you're dealing with margin of error. The Kingwin should be cooling similarly or better, but that's hardly evidence, as, among other things, the different coolers will do different things to the air moving under the socket (remember the orbs?). Case temp will be much more indicative of cooling ability.
2. The Sonata and SLK3700-BQE are made for mildly quiet operation, not performance (or flashy looks). They will do very well as you lower fan speeds and such, but won't do much better as you increase the air moving within them from stock. Remove the tornado and replace w/ Panaflo, drop everything to no more than 7v and the Antecs will begin to shine.

 

[WA261]

I would bet the diff is comming from the 4 compared w/ 2 fans and the placement of them. =)

 

[NewBlackDak]

My SLK3700-AMB actually gets WARMER when you put some high-speed 120mm fans in it. It creates a wind tunnel from back to front, and causes dead-spots in the airflow that allows components to back. When I was still cooling with an SLK-800(A), the 80mm fan on the heatsink couldn't get enough air to cool the processor if the 120mm in the back was anything above 7v.

 

[magratton]

To clarify some things people have asked:
These are all socket temps, not diode, using mbm.

Generally the temps have not changed much in the region I am in, and these have all been looked at during 9-11pm timeframe (the only time of day I get to do things I want to do).

There are different motherboards in them (though two are similar):
BQE - Abit NF7-s
Sonata - DFI NFII Ultra Infinity
Kingwin - DFI NFII AL

The kingwin has a side panel fan which flows right on the graphics card and northbridge section of the mobo.

Yes, having 4 fans is likely better. I am curious about the one post that said the BQE has dead spots. I will have to investigate that.

All in all, case temps are lower on the kingwin by 4 degrees, and don't get as high in mid day (usually 5 degrees cooler). To illustrate
BQE/Sonata - 26 night/30 day
Kingwin - 22 night/25 day

There is one thing I have also noticed, and that is less to do with the case I feel and more to do with the heatsink. I am using the Speeze Falconrock on the Athlon 2600 @ 2.5Ghz. I noticed that it does not handle load temps as well, i.e., temp swings are much more prevalent on the cpu. But this would make sense as the Thermalright is definitely built to handle higher temperature loads. Just merely an interesting obsevance, for n00b me, as to why it is better to buy a better heatsink.

Lastly, in the BQE I am replacing all fans with the following:
2 x 120mm Panaflo-m fans (86cfm/35dba) (Case)
1 x 92mm Panaflo-m fan (48cfm/30dba) (CPU)
This should keep the noise down from the Vantec Tornado@56 dba. I have been considering a little dremel action and putting a 80mm fan out the top. Hmm....

FYI: the BQE is the system I am building for myself.

 

[Gravity]

How about some sound observations? Who's the loudest? Quietest?

 

[magratton]

Sure, I would say that the BQE and Sonata are the quietest. As for much of a different between these two, it is pretty hard to tell. Also I have an issue with the second fan that I tried to install on the sonata where the silicon/rubber pieces did not fit the fan (fan was too wide). So it is really hard to compare the end result. I imagine though none-the-less that the Sonata will end up being a tad quieter.

Now the Kingwin is by no means a loud box (depending on your point of view), but it is not quiet either. There are quite a few fans moving in there an they are all the stock KingWin branded fans that came with the case. Perhaps swapping those out for quieter fans would make a difference.

I almost forgot to mention, I just recently turned on my BQE and though to myself, man this thing is wicked quiet. Hmm.. almost too quiet. Opend up the side and noticed the CPU fan was not turning. Also noticed the rear fan was not turning. Both were connected to the "Fan Only" lead from the Antec True430 PSU. Things got a fair bit noisier with the Vantec Tornado now turning at full blast voltage. Now that I have all of this setup right, I will to a better noise test as soon as the Panaflo's come in (I can't wait ).

 

[magratton]

Originally posted by: NewBlackDak
My SLK3700-AMB actually gets WARMER when you put some high-speed 120mm fans in it. It creates a wind tunnel from back to front, and causes dead-spots in the airflow that allows components to back. When I was still cooling with an SLK-800(A), the 80mm fan on the heatsink couldn't get enough air to cool the processor if the 120mm in the back was anything above 7v.

I wonder if putting in one of those 5 1/4" drive slot coolers would help...

 

[Zap]

A thought would be to use a different method to measure temperatures. Different motherboards can be tuned slightly off. You can get a digital thermometer with a thermister on a wire. Put the thermister somewhere and monitor for a while. Next night, put it in a different system.

 

[mechBgon]

I hope you're not running a Tornado off of an Antec's Fan-Only line. Not a good move. :Q

As for the cooling, I suggest using a digital thermometer and placing its sensor probe near the rear exhaust fan, like shown here by the red circle (except test with the case closed, of course). Motherboards are all over the place on calibration, and even the same individual motherboard will sometimes give radically-different readings depending on which BIOS revision you're using (case in point: Asus A7V333).

 

[magratton]

Thanks for the temp monitoring tips.

Yeah... I noticed that the Fan Only cable isnt working anymore. Hmm... tornado burned it out i guess. Well that sucks. Off to newegg rma land...

 

[magratton]

So, a final update, in my BQE I have made the following changes: a Panaflo 120mm 85CFM fan in the back, a Panaflo 92mm 46CFM fan on the heatsink, and moved the stock Antec 120mm to the front of the case. Temps are much better, and system is much quieter! Board now hovers at 25C and CPU generally is around 33C. All in all, this is much more what I was expecting. Perhaps at this point the only real change I could make would be to add a blow hole out the top. We will see how the summer months affect my system.

:beer: