Hello all. I've got a problem and I'm looking for recommendations from the Anandtech crowd.
The Problem
My mATX PC sits inside of a wooden desk and I need to find a way to keep whatever system I have in the desk cool (and relatively quiet).
Background Info
So why do I have my PC in a desk? I bought this InWin mATX case back in 2003 when I was going to be living away from home for two months for work. I had parts so I didn't want to buy a laptop for the trip so I got this case and lugged a 17" CRT monitor with me in my car. The only difference between my case and this one linked from Newegg is that my case is black and the power supply is a measley 180W. Since 2003, I've used the case occasionaly when I needed an easy to move PC. The case has housed an Athlon XP 1700 in an Asus A7N8X-VM motherboard which I later upgraded to an Athlon XP 2500. I sold that setup on eBay and after lying dormant for about ayear, I inserted a cheap ECS K8M800-M2 motherboard into the case and paired it with an Athlon 64 2800 (ADA2800AEP4AR) using the stock AMD heatsink/fan. The system performs fine, but my new circumstances are forcing me to take action.
When I moved back in April, I made a deal with my wife that I would put a PC down in the family room so I wouldn't disappear in the evenings to my office to surf the internet, but instead would be in the same room as her. The house we ulitmately selected had a built in desk into the wall (it looks like all of the cabinetry). I like the desk and its in the perfect spot to keep me in the room and let me surf while my wife watches TV. I didn't think much about it at the time, but the builder put a closed wooden cabinet to house the computer. The dimension of the space are 19" x 23" x 17.25" (w x h x d). Note the depth as that is key to my problem (17.25"). The wooden door opens from the front and the only other entrance to the PC cabinet is a hole for wires (i.e. mouse, keyboard, video and power cables) to exit up to the desktop.
I haven't had any problems yet, but the computer is cooking big time in the desk. When I run it for a couple of hours at a time, it gets blazing hot (and I mean the outside of the case)! As I'm running Linux, I don't have a good method to check the PC temp other than through the BIOS, but the CPU must be around 60 deg C and the outside of the case is at least 45 deg C. It's hot! Even if my system doesn't go up in a pile of flames, something is going to fail if I continue to use the system in its current setting.
System Specs
Here are the exact specs of my system:
- AMD Athlon 64 2800+ (ADA2800AEP4AR) (rated at 89W)
- AMD Stock Cooling Fan
- ECS K8M800-M2 Motherboard
- 512 MB PC3200
- Maxtor 30 GB PATA HDD
- Asus Radeon 9200SE 64MB AGP
- SMC SMCWPCI-G WLAN PCI Card
- InWin mATX Case (180W PSU - modified SFX form factor)
- 40mm Case Fan (only size for case)
- Liteon CD/CD-RW Drive (short)
- 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive
- Gentoo Linux
Desired Outcome
My desired end state is the ability to surf the internet at the desk in the family room and not worry about burning down my house (or wrecking the computer). I'd like to be able to run the system for 6 hours straight and have minimal (some is ok) sound from the system.
Important Considerations
- I'm looking to create a fix for $200 plus or minus $100.
- I have a lot of parts that might be viable, but I won't throw out the long list now (I have a bad addiction and like to keep upgrading computer parts).
- Nothing is off the table if it meets my desired outcome. I'm not kidding -- look at some of my ideas.
Possible Solutions
These are some of the ideas I'm toying with. A combination of these ideas or something all together new might solve my problem. Take a look, throw out your own suggestions. I'd like to harness the massive experieince of these forums to get a great solution. Here goes nothing:
Option A: Lower power CPU/Motherboard Combo
Possibly use a Pentium-M 1.4 GHz (fairly cheap on eBay) with an Asus N4L-VM DH ($147 on Newegg after shipping), though I'm not really impressed with any of the socket 479 solutions for the desktop. I could go for a low wattage AMD 64 (say the 939-3500 which gives off 67W). However, 67W vs the 89W of the current 2800 may not be enough to make a difference. There is always the option of an Core 2 Duo E6300, but that would blow my initial $200 budget out the window and my wimpy PSU wouldn't cut it. Of course, maybe it is worth it because nothing so powerful is so cool. Not sure what mATX C2D motherboard would fit the bill. There are other CPUs (even AM2 Semprons) that might work. After all, I'm just surfing and doing basic email/office tasks on this PC.
Option B: New case and power supply
I would like to replace the power supply, but I can't find an exact match for the case that isn't by InWin. If there is a SFX solution that is quiet, powerful and cool, I'm all ears. My other problem is that most mATX cases can't fit the depth of my cabinet. The current case is 13.5" in depth. I think i could fit a 16" depth, but that is pushing it with coords coming out of the back of the PC. I considered turing the PC sideways, but it seemed more combersome. Again the dimensions of the cabinet are 19" x 23" x 17.25" (w x h x d). The nicest case I could fine was the Antec Minuet 300 mATX case, but it might be too deep at 16.8". Maybe some sort of cube makes more sense, but I don't know which one would be best. I have no experience with cubes. No matter what, I need something that will pull heat away from the system and survive the confines of the cabinet.
Option C: Buy a cheap laptop
That's right! It's not out of consideration. I can often times find a good deal online and pick up a Dell or Dell Refurb laptop for less than $400. The nice thing about this is that it comes with Win XP, but I feel a bit like I'm giving in if I can't make a mATX system cool enough. I could also grab a used laptop on eBay. Of course, it would get pretty warm in the desk. Not sure if its a good call or not to get a laptop. Thoughts? Heck, I could even find one of the small form factor Dells, but I think that would get pricey and I have no guarantee it wouldn't cook too.
Option D: Software cooling
Ditch Linux, spring for an OEM version of Win XP. Use speed fan to monitor and a software cooler (which forces idle cycles) to keep the CPU cooler. Of course, this would have no impact on my heat producing power supply. I really think the PSU is a major culprit to my heat woes. This would only affect the CPU.
Option E: Water cooling
I told you nothing was off the table. I've always been interested in a water cooling solution. Of course, this also won't help with my PSU. Seems kind of crazy to put a water cooling solution in a cheap mATX surfing PC. Of course, if it solves the problem, then great. Not sure what this would cost and I know it would take considerable time to figure out how to install it and work out the glitches
Option F: Forget the cabinet
One idea is to ditch the cabinet and either put the system on the floor or on the desk. I have little kids so I'm concerned about having the system on the floor. I could put it on the desk. That would kill some desk space, but it would solve my heating issues. Of course then I have sound problems. I'd have to re-do the system to make it much quieter. The PSU and 40mm fan both put out some dBs and would have to go. Maybe that Antec case I mentioned above or a cube would make more sense on the desk. So much for hiding the PC in the cabinet.
Those are my main ideas. Obviously there are a whole bunch of variations. I'm interested to hear what I could do with low power CPUs and motherboards and maybe find a better case. Could I underclock an Athlon 64 and get a low power solution? There are lots of options to consider. What do you all think? I greatly appreciate your input. Thanks!
-MINOT-
The Problem
My mATX PC sits inside of a wooden desk and I need to find a way to keep whatever system I have in the desk cool (and relatively quiet).
Background Info
So why do I have my PC in a desk? I bought this InWin mATX case back in 2003 when I was going to be living away from home for two months for work. I had parts so I didn't want to buy a laptop for the trip so I got this case and lugged a 17" CRT monitor with me in my car. The only difference between my case and this one linked from Newegg is that my case is black and the power supply is a measley 180W. Since 2003, I've used the case occasionaly when I needed an easy to move PC. The case has housed an Athlon XP 1700 in an Asus A7N8X-VM motherboard which I later upgraded to an Athlon XP 2500. I sold that setup on eBay and after lying dormant for about ayear, I inserted a cheap ECS K8M800-M2 motherboard into the case and paired it with an Athlon 64 2800 (ADA2800AEP4AR) using the stock AMD heatsink/fan. The system performs fine, but my new circumstances are forcing me to take action.
When I moved back in April, I made a deal with my wife that I would put a PC down in the family room so I wouldn't disappear in the evenings to my office to surf the internet, but instead would be in the same room as her. The house we ulitmately selected had a built in desk into the wall (it looks like all of the cabinetry). I like the desk and its in the perfect spot to keep me in the room and let me surf while my wife watches TV. I didn't think much about it at the time, but the builder put a closed wooden cabinet to house the computer. The dimension of the space are 19" x 23" x 17.25" (w x h x d). Note the depth as that is key to my problem (17.25"). The wooden door opens from the front and the only other entrance to the PC cabinet is a hole for wires (i.e. mouse, keyboard, video and power cables) to exit up to the desktop.
I haven't had any problems yet, but the computer is cooking big time in the desk. When I run it for a couple of hours at a time, it gets blazing hot (and I mean the outside of the case)! As I'm running Linux, I don't have a good method to check the PC temp other than through the BIOS, but the CPU must be around 60 deg C and the outside of the case is at least 45 deg C. It's hot! Even if my system doesn't go up in a pile of flames, something is going to fail if I continue to use the system in its current setting.
System Specs
Here are the exact specs of my system:
- AMD Athlon 64 2800+ (ADA2800AEP4AR) (rated at 89W)
- AMD Stock Cooling Fan
- ECS K8M800-M2 Motherboard
- 512 MB PC3200
- Maxtor 30 GB PATA HDD
- Asus Radeon 9200SE 64MB AGP
- SMC SMCWPCI-G WLAN PCI Card
- InWin mATX Case (180W PSU - modified SFX form factor)
- 40mm Case Fan (only size for case)
- Liteon CD/CD-RW Drive (short)
- 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive
- Gentoo Linux
Desired Outcome
My desired end state is the ability to surf the internet at the desk in the family room and not worry about burning down my house (or wrecking the computer). I'd like to be able to run the system for 6 hours straight and have minimal (some is ok) sound from the system.
Important Considerations
- I'm looking to create a fix for $200 plus or minus $100.
- I have a lot of parts that might be viable, but I won't throw out the long list now (I have a bad addiction and like to keep upgrading computer parts).
- Nothing is off the table if it meets my desired outcome. I'm not kidding -- look at some of my ideas.
Possible Solutions
These are some of the ideas I'm toying with. A combination of these ideas or something all together new might solve my problem. Take a look, throw out your own suggestions. I'd like to harness the massive experieince of these forums to get a great solution. Here goes nothing:
Option A: Lower power CPU/Motherboard Combo
Possibly use a Pentium-M 1.4 GHz (fairly cheap on eBay) with an Asus N4L-VM DH ($147 on Newegg after shipping), though I'm not really impressed with any of the socket 479 solutions for the desktop. I could go for a low wattage AMD 64 (say the 939-3500 which gives off 67W). However, 67W vs the 89W of the current 2800 may not be enough to make a difference. There is always the option of an Core 2 Duo E6300, but that would blow my initial $200 budget out the window and my wimpy PSU wouldn't cut it. Of course, maybe it is worth it because nothing so powerful is so cool. Not sure what mATX C2D motherboard would fit the bill. There are other CPUs (even AM2 Semprons) that might work. After all, I'm just surfing and doing basic email/office tasks on this PC.
Option B: New case and power supply
I would like to replace the power supply, but I can't find an exact match for the case that isn't by InWin. If there is a SFX solution that is quiet, powerful and cool, I'm all ears. My other problem is that most mATX cases can't fit the depth of my cabinet. The current case is 13.5" in depth. I think i could fit a 16" depth, but that is pushing it with coords coming out of the back of the PC. I considered turing the PC sideways, but it seemed more combersome. Again the dimensions of the cabinet are 19" x 23" x 17.25" (w x h x d). The nicest case I could fine was the Antec Minuet 300 mATX case, but it might be too deep at 16.8". Maybe some sort of cube makes more sense, but I don't know which one would be best. I have no experience with cubes. No matter what, I need something that will pull heat away from the system and survive the confines of the cabinet.
Option C: Buy a cheap laptop
That's right! It's not out of consideration. I can often times find a good deal online and pick up a Dell or Dell Refurb laptop for less than $400. The nice thing about this is that it comes with Win XP, but I feel a bit like I'm giving in if I can't make a mATX system cool enough. I could also grab a used laptop on eBay. Of course, it would get pretty warm in the desk. Not sure if its a good call or not to get a laptop. Thoughts? Heck, I could even find one of the small form factor Dells, but I think that would get pricey and I have no guarantee it wouldn't cook too.
Option D: Software cooling
Ditch Linux, spring for an OEM version of Win XP. Use speed fan to monitor and a software cooler (which forces idle cycles) to keep the CPU cooler. Of course, this would have no impact on my heat producing power supply. I really think the PSU is a major culprit to my heat woes. This would only affect the CPU.
Option E: Water cooling
I told you nothing was off the table. I've always been interested in a water cooling solution. Of course, this also won't help with my PSU. Seems kind of crazy to put a water cooling solution in a cheap mATX surfing PC. Of course, if it solves the problem, then great. Not sure what this would cost and I know it would take considerable time to figure out how to install it and work out the glitches
Option F: Forget the cabinet
One idea is to ditch the cabinet and either put the system on the floor or on the desk. I have little kids so I'm concerned about having the system on the floor. I could put it on the desk. That would kill some desk space, but it would solve my heating issues. Of course then I have sound problems. I'd have to re-do the system to make it much quieter. The PSU and 40mm fan both put out some dBs and would have to go. Maybe that Antec case I mentioned above or a cube would make more sense on the desk. So much for hiding the PC in the cabinet.
Those are my main ideas. Obviously there are a whole bunch of variations. I'm interested to hear what I could do with low power CPUs and motherboards and maybe find a better case. Could I underclock an Athlon 64 and get a low power solution? There are lots of options to consider. What do you all think? I greatly appreciate your input. Thanks!
-MINOT-
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