Cooling A64/MSI K8T based system....

[Zadillo]

Hi all,

I'm still pretty new at this, and I realize that I haven't done everything I can with my first custom built PC.

I put together a system with an MSI K8T Neo2-FISR motherboard and an Athlon 64 3200+ CPU. It's in an Antec SLK3700BQE case and I'm also using a PNY GeForce 6800GT video card.

I just ordered an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 for the video card, but I want to get the best quiet and cooling I can with the rest of my system.

Right now, the Athlon 64 3200+ is just using the stock cooling solution. I'd love to get some advice on replacing this, in terms of what would be the best for cool operation while still being quiet. When the CPU fan is at full speed (8/8 speed from MSI's CoreCenter utility), it is very noisy. I just recently started playing around with the Cool N Quiet settings and the ability to manually change the fan speed. With Cool N Quiet enabled, it seems like it still keeps the fan pretty close to 4200-4600rpm, and sounds pretty loud. I can push it down as low as 1/8 speed and it is pretty quiet, but I'm not sure that's a good idea. It doesn't seem to affect the CPU temperature while idle at least, but I probably need to see what it does when I am hammering it.

As far as cooling goes, I am not using anything other than the fans that came with the Antec SLK3700BQE.

One of the biggest things I've found is that I never put in a Northbridge fan. I had noticed that the MSI CoreCenter monitor reported my CPU fan speed as 4600rpm or so, and the Northbridge fan as 0rpm. I've been looking at the K8T manual, but didn't even see much about the Northbridge fan or what or where to install it.

I'm also using the stock Antec PSU that came with the SLK3700BQE.

So, anyway, that's basically where I'm at right now. I would appreciate any advice you could offer to a newbie at system building in terms of what other things I can do for cool operation while still keeping quiet. I'd love to look into replacing the CPU fan, adding in a Northbridge fan, adding in any other system cooling that would help, and anything that would help keep the computer as quiet as possible.

Thanks!

-Zadillo

 

[akira34]

Look at the Thermalright SLK-948U, XP-90 and [possibly] XP-120 coolers... You'll want a good 92mm fan for either of those to cool it well (at lower noise levels). I have a Panaflo H1 92mm fan on my 948U at the moment, but will be installing a XP-120 heatsink and Enermax 120mm fan soon (has arrived, just need to install after the holiday). If I enable the cool and quiet in the mobo's bios (I don't use the tools under windows, preferring to let the bios do all that), I see idle temps between 35 and 40C. The temp is the downside to me, the upside is the thing is bloody QUIET... I think the fan spins down as low as 1100-1200rpm when idling, which is why it's so quiet. When at full speed, it's pushing about 2800-2900 rpm, which increases the noise to it's top end.

Either way, I'd look to Thermalright for a cooler if I was you... Actually, after reading about them here, and on other sites, I decided to give it a twirl... Not disappointed in it's performance over stock, I just want lower temps at low db levels... That's the entire reason I'm going to try the XP-120... Oh, and get some AS Ceramic thermal compound when you install your new cooler... The stuff is great.

 

[Zadillo]

Thanks. I'll definitely check those out. Actually, I don't know a ton about what a good temp is supposed to be. I noticed you mentioned idle temps between 35 and 40C being a downside. Does that mean those would be bad? The reason I ask is because the idle temps on my system (at least according to CoreCenter), seem to be around 56-58C CPU temp and 47C system temp.

Also, I noticed you mentioned not using the Windows tools. Can you tell me a bit more about that? Previously when I turned on Cool N Quiet on the BIOS but didn't do anything with CoreCenter, it didn't seem to make any difference. Actually, I'm still not sure it does anyway, as I needed to go into CoreCenter and manually switch to "User Mode" to lower the fan speed (otherwise it seems to run the fan speed at 4686rpm (compared to 2600rpm or so if I switch to user mode and set the fan speed to 1/8 speed, which makes it quiet).

-Zadillo

 

[akira34]

Some people would kill to get the temps I posted... If you have the Athlon64 idling at 56-58C you need to do some serious cooling upgrades.

With the MSI Cool and Quiet, you have to enable that in the bios, and then select a target temp (different bios category). The lowest you'll see there is 40C (from the choices available). Without both of those items enabled/on, cool and quiet can't do it's job from the bios. With the latest install of windows, I JUST installed the SATA drivers (needed them for my hard drives) and nothing else besides needed drivers. I didn't even bother with the MSI update software. When I do the next wipe and install, I'll probably install the bios update tool, and that's all.

My idle (just running WMCE05) temps are 40C processor, and 35C system... I'm looking forward to some processor temps in the 20's when I install the XP-120 in the next few days...

 

[Zadillo]

Hrmm. Wow, thanks.... I didn't even realize there was a separate BIOS category for the target temps. Where exactly is that? The last time I looked in the MSI manual for the BIOS settings, I don't think it even mentioned that.

I'll definitely look into the other cooling you mentioned then........ glad to know that the current heat levels aren't good. I really wasn't sure.

 

[Icepick]

Zadillo, for comparison, when I run cool & quiet I get idle CPU temps around 35C. The fan spins at around 1700RPM, which makes it nice and quiet. You have to enable Cool N' Quiet in BIOS in order for it to work. Do that and then in Windows start up Core Center and watch it. If it's working your multiplier will be half what it usually is and Vcore will be reduced to around 1.07 or so. The halved multiplier makes the CPU run at half speed and it should be cooler.

Regarding the northbridge, your board uses a heatsink to cool the chipset. That is the quietest solution you can get for chipset cooling. My motherboard uses a little fan and it's a bit noisy. I ended up connecting it to an external fan controller to reduce the fan speed but I'd prefer to have a heatsink like yours. My advice is don't mess around with the chipset heatsink if you want a quiet system.

 

[Zadillo]

Hrmm, I think I must be doing something wrong then. I definitely have Cool N Quiet set to "ENABLED" in the BIOS at least, but the CPU fan is spinning at 4687rpm, the multiplier says 200 MHz x 10.0, and the Vcore is 1.46v.

 

[akira34]

Look in the bios for a line item like CPU target temp...

As for reducing the speed of your processor to half... Bulls**t... Even with cool and quiet enabled (and working) my processor is running at ~2.2GHz (which it's supposed to be).

 

[Icepick]

Interesting. Maybe my Cool N' Quiet implementation may not be working properly then. When I enable it in BIOS and then open Core Center I see my 3500+ running at 201 x 5 = 1005. When I disable C n Q in BIOS it runs at 2210. Maybe the socket 939 board implements it differently than the socket 754 you're using?

Edit: CPU-Z reports the same settings: 201x5 with CnQ enabled.

 

[Operandi]

First off you have to realize akira34 is crazy when it comes to temps .

As for your system anything over 50 is too high for an idle temp, fine for load however. For replacing the stock HS/F I will second akira34's recommendation for Thermalright. I would go with the XP-90, good/quiet 92mm fans are much easier and cheaper to come by then 120mm for the XP-120 For the Fan itself its hard to beat a Panaflow M or L1A, an H would be ok too as long as you throttle it down during idle states.

Regarding your northbridge; dose it have a fan now? If it doesn?t leave it as is. If it has a fan I would replace it with a passive Zalman HS.

 

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by: akira34
Look in the bios for a line item like CPU target temp...

As for reducing the speed of your processor to half... Bulls**t... Even with cool and quiet enabled (and working) my processor is running at ~2.2GHz (which it's supposed to be).

Hrmm. I just rebooted and was looking through everything, but couldn't find anything like this. This seems to be AMIBIOS (at least, it said AMIBIOS Setup), and I believe it says it is version 1.4.

It has Cool N Quiet and the options for ENABLED or DISABLED in the Frequency and Voltage section, but I can't seem to find anything like CPU Target Temp in any of the other BIOS menus.

At this point I guess I'm kind of concerned cause it seems like whether I turn Cool N Quiet on or off in the BIOS, it doesn't seem to be having any affect on the fan speed or anything else about the system. I figure I'm doing something wrong but I'm not sure what.

-Zadillo

 

[Icepick]

Also, I've found that Core Center routinely reports CPU temps four degrees C higher than Motherboard Monitor or Everest. I recommend you download one of these tools to monitor your temps for a more accurate reading.

 

[Icepick]

Zadillo, are you using the latest BIOS version for that board?

 

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by: Operandi
First off you have to realize akira34 is crazy when it comes to temps .

As for your system anything over 50 is too high for an idle temp, fine for load however. For replacing the stock HS/F I will second akira34's recommendation for Thermalright. I would go with the XP-90, good/quiet 92mm fans are much easier and cheaper to come by then 120mm for the XP-120 For the Fan itself its hard to beat a Panaflow M or L1A, an H would be ok too as long as you throttle it down during idle states.

Regarding your northbridge; dose it have a fan now? If it doesn?t leave it as is. If it has a fan I would replace it with a passive Zalman HS.

Thanks. As far as I know, the Northbridge doesn't have a fan. From what I've read, the MSI K8T Neo2 FISR doesn't come with one or something? And the BIOS and CoreCenter report the NB fan speed as 0rpm, and I definitely didn't add any other sort of fan, as far as I know.

Thanks, I'll try and take a look at the stuff you all are recommending.

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by: icepik
Zadillo, are you using the latest BIOS version for that board?

I think so..... at least, I was. I was apparently using Version 1.80. I just ran the MSI Live Update utility and it says the online version is 1.90.

 

[jelifah]

I've got almost the exact same setup as Zadillo, with a Gigabyte GA-K8NS Ultra 939 and a BFG 6800OC. The NV5 Silencer is scheduled for delivery tomorrow (Yes, Christmas Eve).

Any reason no one is suggesting the Zalman 7700? I'd read that the 7700, although large, fits okay in most standard sized mobos and is a great cooler. Am I misled? Or is the Thermalright even better?

As for temps (Reported by Motherboard Monitor5), I run at 35 idle, and jump to around 45 after 3DMark or FarCry. After running Prime95 for 10 hours I got as high as 49. I've done nothing special, but I wonder if these temps are being reported correctly. They just seem crazy low *shrug*.

 

[Zadillo]

K, I just updated my BIOS to 1.90. Still don't seem to see anything else re: Cool N Quiet in the BIOS settings.

I also just downloaded MBM, and it does seem to report a few degrees cooler (around 45-46C system temp and 49-51C CPU temp).

-Zadillo

 

[akira34]

It's not in the same heading as the cool and quiet item... At least on my mobo, and the ones I've installed, that's where it is, or isn't... Look through all the bios screens and you should locate it.

 

[Zadillo]

I swear I've looked through every BIOS screen, don't see anything like Target CPU Temp, or even anything about a CPU Temp at all. This is AMIBIOS if that helps. Anyone else who has this setup that knows where I should look?

 

[akira34]

Look under the H/W Monitor heading, if you have one.. I see an item called "Smart CPU Fan Target" with below that the "Smart CPU Fan Tolerance"... For CnQ, I set them both as low as possible (40C and 1)...

Maybe it's because I have the Phoenix - AwardBIOS, and a better mobo chipset (for many, via doesn't cut it anymore). Still, if your board supports Cool and Quiet, it SHOULD have settings like that...

 

[Icepick]

Check this out. Scroll to the bottom of this thread on Cool n' Quiet. Make sure you installed the AMD processor driver. That should get CnQ to work.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...2740&enterthread=y

 

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by: akira34
Look under the H/W Monitor heading, if you have one.. I see an item called "Smart CPU Fan Target" with below that the "Smart CPU Fan Tolerance"... For CnQ, I set them both as low as possible (40C and 1)...

Maybe it's because I have the Phoenix - AwardBIOS, and a better mobo chipset (for many, via doesn't cut it anymore). Still, if your board supports Cool and Quiet, it SHOULD have settings like that...

Thanks. There doesn't seem to be any sort of H/W Monitor heading, or anything with an item called Smart CPU Fan Target.

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by: icepik
Check this out. Scroll to the bottom of this thread on Cool n' Quiet. Make sure you installed the AMD processor driver. That should get CnQ to work.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...2740&enterthread=y

Thanks. Actually, I didn't have this driver installed. Hadn't even heard about it before.

I have installed it now, and restarted my computer, and checked the BIOS again to make sure Cool N Quiet was still enabled.

It doesn't seem like it has had any effect though. MBM is reporting my CPU temp still at 50C, and the CPU fan speed still seems to be going at full speed......... about 4687rpm.

Any idea what else I could be doing wrong here?

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Just wanted to update this....... I'm not sure, but I think maybe the Cool N' Quiet is now having an effect. CPU temp still seems to range from 48-50C, but the fan seems to be running quieter now (about 3750rpm instead of 4687rpm). It's still noticeably loud, but at least I can't hear it as much. I'm guessing at least it must be doing something though, as previously with Cool N Quiet enabled (and this was before I had that Athlon 64 driver installed), the fan would never go below 4600rpm).

I will try and take your advice on the other cooling solutions, etc. as I definitely want to get the temps down, if 50C is not a good idle temp.

Is there anything else I should look at maybe that might be causing a problem and resulting in such high idle temps for me? One thing in particular, when I put this together, I didn't use anything but what came with the Athlon 64 retail CPU. The instructions AMD bundled with it said the Athlon 64 already had some sort of thermal compound on it so I didn't need to put anything else on it.

If I understand it right, you recommend I should get an XP-90 heatsink and a Panaflow M or L1A fan for it? It seems like that was the consensus recommendation so far. Is there anything else I should look into? The only other cooling upgrade I'm doing right now is replacing the stock 6800GT fan with the Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 (btw, I ordered this thing on the 22nd from newegg with the FedEx Express Saver shipping and it got here today.... much quicker than I was expecting).

-Zadillo

 

[Zadillo]

Actually, can anyone also recommend a place to get the Panaflow M or L1A fan? I was just searching on newegg (they do seem to carry the XP-90 heatsink), and they don't seem to have any Panaflow stuff at all.