Cooler Master WaveMaster

[Frisco K]

This is a Word of Advice to whomever is building a new sytem.
This case is a very sharp looking case. However there is a flaw in its design.
It does not meet the Intel recommended specifications for P4 LGA775 socket processors.
The reason: there is not enough air flow that would allow cooling the processor.
Unfortunately, I am writing from my own experience.
I do not know how it works with AMD's.
If you are thinking about an interesting case look into Lian-Li PC60 Plus


My system is built as follows:
Case: CoolerMaster Wave-Master (trying to solve the problem. No help from Cooler Master yet. Considering change to Lian-Li).
MOBO: Asus p5AD2-E Premium, Bios Ver. 1005
CPU: Pentium 4 550 3.4 GHz.
Heatsink Thermalright XP-90C w/ Vantec Stealth 92 mm. fan
Power Supply: Antec True Power 2 480W
Memory: Corsair XMS Pro DDR2 675 PC2-5400
HD: WD Raptor 74GB
VideoCard: BFG 6800GT

Interesting exchange:
Hello Frisco,

Unfortunately, we will not be able to fulfill your request to replace
the
Wave Master case with a Praetorian 730. Intel only within the last year
has
required the use of the side air duct and you should have been aware
that
the Wave Master was designed and manufactured 3 years ago to meet the
standards back then. You should have been aware when building the
system
with this CPU that Intel had recommended the use of the side air duct;
therefore when you had read reviews of the Wave Master that there is no
air
duct available for this case.

P.S. Cooler Master's 2005 Computer Modding Contest has begun. For
more
information,


Best Regards,

Kevin Voong
Cooler Master RMA Dept.
1951 S. Parco Ave. Unit # A
Ontario, CA 91761
Email: rmausa@coolermaster.com
URL: www.coolermaster.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 6:01 PM
To: rmausa@coolermaster.com
Subject: RE: CM Tech Support Inquiry from [US][TAC-T01-EK]

Dear Mr. Voong.
Although not at all unexpected, your prompt response
was quite disappointing.
By your reply I inferr that CoolerMaster has become
aware of the positive air flow problems.
Yes that is the solution that Intel recommends on it's
website.
Now, here is my present situation.
I built my computer having in mind that the case would
respond according to the Intel processor I chose.
Based on computer sites and customer reviews, I
selected the Wave Master as the case of choice. This,
as of today was apparently a mistake. The case is not
performing au to the expectations.
The total cost of the system at the built time was
around $ 2,000, including $145.00 for the Wave Master
case.
Cooler Master, through your response is telling me
that there is a possible solution to my problem, is
willing to charge me for this solution -to a problem
created not by me- and is asking for me to patiently
wait for when the solution becomes available.
In the mean time I will be taking the risk to have the
system, which I purchased and put together with quite
some effort, fry -become scrap.
My question is: Is Cooler Master willing to assume the
liability for my loss?
One viable option to my problem could be as follows:
Since Cooler Master is unable to solve the problem in
a timely manner I suggest that a Praetorian Case be
sent to me in exchange of the Wave Master I am using
right now; allow me time to transfer the hardware to
it, and I will return the Wave Master case.
I look forward to you reply.

--- "Cooler Master RMA Dept."
<rmausa@coolermaster.com> wrote:

> Hello Frisco,
>
>
>
> Please view the Praetorian 730. I believe you are
> looking for a side panel
> with the air duct that is on this case. The side
> panel is $15.00 plus
> shipping and handling charges. Unfortunately we do
> not have this side panel
> in stock for purchase at this time. Please check
> back with me at a later
> time.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Kevin Voong
>
> Cooler Master RMA Dept.
>
> 1951 S. Parco Ave. Unit # A
>
> Ontario, CA 91761
>
>>
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 9:06 AM
> To: customersupport@coolermaster.com
> Subject: CM Tech Support Inquiry from
> [US][TAC-T01-EK]
>
>
>
> Frisco Send:
> I am having a problem with my computer.
> I do not overclock the CPU. Nevertheless it runs at
> 68C (idle, and at 78C
> (load). When I take the side cover off, the
> temperature drops to 55C.
> Research done through Intel, recommends a chassis
> with an air duct on the
> side, which Cooler Master does not supply or advices
> as recommended by
> Intel.
> The computer built is new. I need a side panel with
> the air duct.
> What solution can Cooler Master provide and/or
> suggest?
> Thank you

 

[scrawnypaleguy]

The wave master has poor cooling (I would know, I have one) but those temps look pretty bad, even with that case. Are you sure you seated the hetsink correctly, and that you used the correct amount of thermal paste? Another option would be to take out the top I/O bay and replace it with another 80mm fan. If you don't want to lose your ports, Silverstone makes a 3.5" bay device that houses all of those ports.

 

[Frisco K]

Thank you for somewhat confirming that there is a cooling issue with this case; even with AMD Athlon Processor.
Before the Thermalright I had a Thermaltake Silent LGA775 heatsink installed. I did use Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste in both installations with the same result.
However, when I remove the side panel the temperature (idle) drops to about 55C; and jumps up to 67-68C under load.

 

[Bona Fide]

Make your own side duct. Use a 117mm circular saw and bolt a 120mm intake fan to it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

yeah a DIY jobber!!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Frisco K
This case is a very sharp looking case. However there is a flaw in its design.
It does not meet the Intel recommended specifications for P4 LGA775 socket processors...

Based on computer sites and customer reviews, I
selected the Wave Master as the case of choice. This,
as of today was apparently a mistake...

My question is: Is Cooler Master willing to assume the
liability for my loss?

[My 2¢]

It was your mistake choosing that case.

The case manufacturer is not liable for any of your real or perceived losses.

Sounds as if you originally choose this case based on the way it looked. Indeed this doesn't even have to do with the past year or with LGA775 - Intel has been saying to use a side duct in lieu of better case design ever since the P4 3.06GHz Northwood CPU came out, and that's been years. However, not only are there many cases on the market which do not have the side duct, many cases have terrible airflow. I've even seen cases that have fans up front, but then no vents in the front face for air to get in!!! Besides Intel's guidelines, there are no laws on case design, so it is up to the experienced computer builder to choose the appropriate case for the components.

You should be commended for doing at least basic research with review sites and customer reviews, however... Many "review" sites are terrible. Bad editing aside, many of the so-called "reviews" are just some pictures and product description, followed by "Conclusion: My system is in this case and it roxors, I give it 8/10." Customer reviews are even worse. You were probably looking at Newegg customer reviews, since those are the most widespread and well known. Newegg has been known to remove unfavorable reviews and they sometimes reward people leaving favorable ones.

"Good" review sites such as Anandtech are of a caliber above the crap sites, the problem is that there are a LOT of cases on the market and quality reviews takes time to complete. Just read one of the recent case reviews to see the difference. They even install and run components inside the case and then use measuring equipment to map out temperatures.

Perhaps the case isn't the problem. Perhaps your choice of the processor is the real problem. Prescott CPUs run really hot - so hot that they have built-in protection to slow them down to 2.8GHz (for any CPU above that) when things get toasty. Even Tom's Hardware, often accused of being on Intel's payroll, did an article on the problem of heat after they noticed benchmark scores going down on subsequent runs. They did some testing following even Intel's guidelines and were not impressed with the results.

Another problem I see is your choice in CPU fan. Sure, the heatsink (properly installed) is one of the best on the market, however using a Vantec Stealth fan to cool a Prescott is a bad idea. My suggestion for you would be to go to SVC and pick up the following:
Coolermaster Aerogate fan speed control $5
three of the following for your case (uses three 80mm fans, right?) Panaflo 80mm 12H $9 each or Sunon 80mm $5 each
Panaflo 92mm 12H $10
Add any cable extensions or connectors that you may need for the Panaflos. What this will do is to increase airflow through your case (the 80mm fans), and more importantly increase airflow by 2x through your heatsink (the 92mm replacement for the Stealth). The $5 Aerogate is to let you dial in the fan speed a bit to find that balance between noise and airflow. These new fans will probably increase noise a bit, but if you haven't replaced your video card fan, then your system isn't the most quiet anyways. BTW, I like Antec power supplies, but their fans run slow. Their fans are supposed to speed up as temperatures/loads increase, but I haven't seen/heard/felt them doing that in the three I've owned. In fact, I don't think anybody has!!! Do a search on this forum and you'll find people asking about it periodically.

Conclusion: Your fault for choosing the case without knowing Intel guidelines. Your fault for choosing the hottest CPU on the market. Your fault for choosing one of the lowest airflow fans to cool your CPU. One possible solution is new fans.

Don't worry too much about choosing the wrong components. Happens all the time to people building their own computers (especially ones who have not built a LOT of them). Just roll with it and consider this a learning experience.

[/My 2¢]

 

[Parkre]

not to be an a88hole, but how many systems have you had/built? That cpu temp is may be from too much thermal paste ( I would know from experience). Use less and higher quality. My temps dropped 10C from just changing the stock thermal paste (the pink pad) to artic silver.

On a side, I can't believe that Intel has required a side fan. that's seems silly to me.

 

[CraigRT]

I know the Wavemaster has not so good cooling, because like others, I too own one, but the problem is with the ridiculously hot running Prescotts... A CPU should be able to run in just about any case, not just a top notch ventilated case (because there are only so many of those)

My A64 system runs perfectly fine in my Wavemaster without a hitch, with both front fans running, and the rear, and it's not even loud at all..... Not a BAD case for cooling, but not the best no question.

 

[Markbnj]

I have the Wavemaster. Rig is in my sig. The CPU core temp idles at 36C, loads up to about 42C. No case mods or overclocking. Stock fans, but I did remove the top audio connector panel, and install the provided fan grate only, so I have airflow through there. I do have a heat problem with the GPU, which gets up to 82C when playing BF2. Not too worried about it damaging the card, but I want to cool it down. Ordered an NV Silencer 5 from Newegg. We'll see how that works.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Markbnj
I have the Wavemaster. Rig is in my sig. The CPU core temp idles at 36C, loads up to about 42C. No case mods or overclocking. Stock fans, but I did remove the top audio connector panel, and install the provided fan grate only, so I have airflow through there. I do have a heat problem with the GPU, which gets up to 82C when playing BF2. Not too worried about it damaging the card, but I want to cool it down. Ordered an NV Silencer 5 from Newegg. We'll see how that works.

As you know, I'm using the same case, and my 6800GT worked awesome with an nV5 when installed in my Wavemaster. using the stock 2 front and 1 rear fans.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Interesting exchange:
Hello Frisco,

Unfortunately, we will not be able to fulfill your request to replace
the
Wave Master case with a Praetorian 730. Intel only within the last year
has
required the use of the side air duct and you should have been aware
that
the Wave Master was designed and manufactured 3 years ago to meet the
standards back then. You should have been aware when building the
system
with this CPU that Intel had recommended the use of the side air duct;
therefore when you had read reviews of the Wave Master that there is no
air
duct available for this case.

Best Regards,

Kevin Voong
Cooler Master RMA Dept.


Don`t ya just love RMA peeps with attitudes...lol

 

[Markbnj]

Thanks, Craig. It's good to know that the silencer works well in that case environment.

 

[Aries64]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Frisco K
This case is a very sharp looking case. However there is a flaw in its design.
It does not meet the Intel recommended specifications for P4 LGA775 socket processors...

Based on computer sites and customer reviews, I
selected the Wave Master as the case of choice. This,
as of today was apparently a mistake...

My question is: Is Cooler Master willing to assume the
liability for my loss?

[My 2¢]

It was your mistake choosing that case.

The case manufacturer is not liable for any of your real or perceived losses.

Sounds as if you originally choose this case based on the way it looked. Indeed this doesn't even have to do with the past year or with LGA775 - Intel has been saying to use a side duct in lieu of better case design ever since the P4 3.06GHz Northwood CPU came out, and that's been years. However, not only are there many cases on the market which do not have the side duct, many cases have terrible airflow. I've even seen cases that have fans up front, but then no vents in the front face for air to get in!!! Besides Intel's guidelines, there are no laws on case design, so it is up to the experienced computer builder to choose the appropriate case for the components.

You should be commended for doing at least basic research with review sites and customer reviews, however... Many "review" sites are terrible. Bad editing aside, many of the so-called "reviews" are just some pictures and product description, followed by "Conclusion: My system is in this case and it roxors, I give it 8/10." Customer reviews are even worse. You were probably looking at Newegg customer reviews, since those are the most widespread and well known. Newegg has been known to remove unfavorable reviews and they sometimes reward people leaving favorable ones.

"Good" review sites such as Anandtech are of a caliber above the crap sites, the problem is that there are a LOT of cases on the market and quality reviews takes time to complete. Just read one of the recent case reviews to see the difference. They even install and run components inside the case and then use measuring equipment to map out temperatures.

Perhaps the case isn't the problem. Perhaps your choice of the processor is the real problem. Prescott CPUs run really hot - so hot that they have built-in protection to slow them down to 2.8GHz (for any CPU above that) when things get toasty. Even Tom's Hardware, often accused of being on Intel's payroll, did an article on the problem of heat after they noticed benchmark scores going down on subsequent runs. They did some testing following even Intel's guidelines and were not impressed with the results.

Another problem I see is your choice in CPU fan. Sure, the heatsink (properly installed) is one of the best on the market, however using a Vantec Stealth fan to cool a Prescott is a bad idea. My suggestion for you would be to go to SVC and pick up the following:
Coolermaster Aerogate fan speed control $5
three of the following for your case (uses three 80mm fans, right?) Panaflo 80mm 12H $9 each or Sunon 80mm $5 each
Panaflo 92mm 12H $10
Add any cable extensions or connectors that you may need for the Panaflos. What this will do is to increase airflow through your case (the 80mm fans), and more importantly increase airflow by 2x through your heatsink (the 92mm replacement for the Stealth). The $5 Aerogate is to let you dial in the fan speed a bit to find that balance between noise and airflow. These new fans will probably increase noise a bit, but if you haven't replaced your video card fan, then your system isn't the most quiet anyways. BTW, I like Antec power supplies, but their fans run slow. Their fans are supposed to speed up as temperatures/loads increase, but I haven't seen/heard/felt them doing that in the three I've owned. In fact, I don't think anybody has!!! Do a search on this forum and you'll find people asking about it periodically.

Conclusion: Your fault for choosing the case without knowing Intel guidelines. Your fault for choosing the hottest CPU on the market. Your fault for choosing one of the lowest airflow fans to cool your CPU. One possible solution is new fans.

Don't worry too much about choosing the wrong components. Happens all the time to people building their own computers (especially ones who have not built a LOT of them). Just roll with it and consider this a learning experience.

[/My 2¢]

:thumbsup:Excellent post Zap. Couldn't have said it better myself.

BTW, Frisco K, Athlon64's run perfectly fine in the WaveMaster with stock cooling fans - just don't count on a high overclock. I ran an FX-53 for about a year before switching over to my V1000. Maybe you should blame Intel on the heat issue with your Preshott and try to RMA it! Not trying to be a di<khead, but Zap's "conclusion" pretty nailed the problem.

 

[Zap]

LOL, I actually thought my stance was a bit harsh, so I tried thinking up simple solutions for Frisco, thus my suggestions on the fans. Really, a Vantec Stealth fan trying to cool a 3.4GHz Prescott? That may be more of a problem than the case missing a side duct.

 

[Frisco K]

LOL, I actually thought my stance was a bit harsh

Can anybody explain the following?
I just changed the case. I am temporarily using a POW-Max a buddy of mine lent me.
Heatsink and cooling fan are the same, MoBo is the same. Software and hardware are the same.
Nevertheless. the CPU has been idling for over 1 hour at 48C. I played BF2 for 30 Minutes and that load took the temperature to 65C as the max, which BTW was the idling temp in the Wave Master.
If this is not a case cooling capabilities issue, what the h..ck is it?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Zap and I have a similar suspicion. The Stealth 92mm doesn't push much more than 28 CFM at full bore; it draws less than 0.1A. Even so, based on my experience with my own ThermalRight cooler, you would THINK that if it really spins up to the rpm at which it's rated, it would do the trick, but thinking about it further, I was a bit peeved at other CPU-cooler reviews for testing by only pushing 42 CFM through the fins.

What are you using to cool the vid card? How much memory is socketed? I don't know what exactly the result would be if the vid-card were NOT fully powered, but is the 4-pin Molex plug from the PSU connected to it?

Your power supply should be fully adequate to handling all the components, and with some headroom. Try a different CPU fan, and check again that the heatsink is properly seated.

I've seen people running Prescotts with XP-90 coolers which have much better results than yours, although they were using overkill with things like a Vantec Tornado 92mm.

Somebody else give this a shot . . . .

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Frisco K
Can anybody explain the following?
I just changed the case. I am temporarily using a POW-Max a buddy of mine lent me.
Heatsink and cooling fan are the same, MoBo is the same. Software and hardware are the same.
Nevertheless. the CPU has been idling for over 1 hour at 48C.

You earlier said that with the side panel off the Coolermaster, CPU idled at 55ºC. All else being equal, no matter how much better airflow a different case may have, you shouldn't hvae seen under the 55ºC that you got without a side panel. Given the information that you got down to 48ºC while inside a different case tells me something is different between now and then. What it is I wouldn't be able to say without having been there. My gut feeling is that #1 the CPU HSF may not have been properly seated before #2 the Powmax case has higher RPM fans in the chassis and PSU. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense that being in a different case gives you lower temperatures than the Coolermaster with the side panel off.

 

[imported_Kensai]

You picked a Presshot. That's one issue right there. Cool and Presshot cannot be found together.

 

[Rocky Mountain High]

Dear Frisco K:

Cooler Master may have a solution for you. It recently announced the Aquagate Mini water block set that can be ordered with a retention module is supports your Prescott LGA775 processor. The URL of the release sheet is:

www.coolermaster.com/product_common_images/ReleaseSheet_AQUAGATEMini.pdf

A picture of the LGA775 retention module is near the end of the release sheet. Do see if that can cool your Prescott CPU.

Now I have a question for you regarding what I believe is your aesthetically pleasing choice of the Wavemaster case. I am considering this case for an AMD® Athlon-64 CPU. I am looking at the same Aquagate Mini water block to provide a quieter fan to replace one or two of the noisy 80mm stock fans. Perhaps another solution is to find a PSU with a quiet 80mm fan. If you have any suggestions for noise abatement, please pass them on to me.

Thanks very much in advance.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Rocky Mountain High
Dear Frisco K:

Cooler Master may have a solution for you. It recently announced the Aquagate Mini water block set that can be ordered with a retention module is supports your Prescott LGA775 processor. The URL of the release sheet is:

www.coolermaster.com/product_common_images/ReleaseSheet_AQUAGATEMini.pdf

A picture of the LGA775 retention module is near the end of the release sheet. Do see if that can cool your Prescott CPU.

Now I have a question for you regarding what I believe is your aesthetically pleasing choice of the Wavemaster case. I am considering this case for an AMD® Athlon-64 CPU. I am looking at the same Aquagate Mini water block to provide a quieter fan to replace one or two of the noisy 80mm stock fans. Perhaps another solution is to find a PSU with a quiet 80mm fan. If you have any suggestions for noise abatement, please pass them on to me.

Thanks very much in advance.

lol...Don`t you just love sacasm at its best???