[coolaler] Devils Canyon: 4.0 base/ 4.4 turbo @ stock

[toyota]

Will AMD release something "against" Intel's Devil Canyon?

lol

 

[Koslov_]

lol

Not even like a refresh or something? Damn it's not looking good for the future. We'll pay stupid amount for CPUs

 

[Pheesh]

I was almost excited until I realised that is basically what the chips were happily doing before they went and ripped out the metal TIM material and replaced it with baby milk. So all they have done is return the CPU clock speed peak back to where it was with Sandy Bridge except now they are calling it special and presumably charging more for it?! When I am getting reamed I at least intend to call it that.

Even when you de-lidded haswell/ivy bridge you were not likely to see any meaningfully higher overclocks, so this is more than just a TIM change. This stock/turbo speed is much higher than sandy bridge. How are you getting reamed for significant performance improvements from a refresh?

 

[Enigmoid]

AMD could easily release a refresh for Kaveri. It looks like a couple hundred Mhz could easily be added, much like trinity -> richland.

 

[moonbogg]

I wonder if Haswell-E will have the same performance characteristics. If X99 doesn't OC as well, then its going to be a lot of head scratching to decide which platform to jump on for me since all I do is game.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Too good to be true. That's a huge speed bump for a modern CPU and recent Intel has had no history of that. They always bump by 100.

If somehow true I imagine it will sell like hotcakes as its also designed for overclockers so it should have some OC headroom. I'd buy it. It would be the first mainstream CPU that would be a worthy upgrade over a sandy bridge CPU imo.

 

[IntelUser2000]

The chart is fake, that's why.

I haven't seen many(if any) leaks that were fake. Those to look like a legitimate table from Intel. Their launch is supposed to be June 2nd at Computex, so its about time we have leaks.

Why is the i5 so much slower with the same TDP? Does anyone think it will overclock as well, especially without the hyperthreading?

It did not dawn to me, but thinking of what AMD with their 200W TDP FX series makes sense. They probably saw a logic there.

i7 4790K probably costs in the $349-399 range. The i7 4690K costs same as the 4670K, but with the same new packaging material as the 4790K. Lot of the recommendation I see on the forum is, "Get the i5, because Hyperthreading doesn't help with overclocking and save few $s".

Those who wants to go fastest base clock CPU, and an i7, goes for the 4790K, and also the overclockers that care about HT. Also, it takes care of the special FX chips, and persuade bit more people to go for the i7.

 

[thilanliyan]

Wait so changing from a Z87 to a Z97 board decreased temps of a 4770K? Did I read that correctly?

 

[blackened23]

Wait so changing from a Z87 to a Z97 board decreased temps of a 4770K? Did I read that correctly?

I think what actually happened is reviewers are able to apply higher voltages with either little to no changes in temp. For instance, i've heard of more than one reviewer being able to get 1.35V no problems with Z97. If you've overclocked a 4770k before, 1.35V is basically no mans land for all but very few folks. I'd say the realistic goal is 1.25V or less with Haswell...

I'm not sure if temps are actually improved at same voltages, but MANY reviewers are able to get significantly higher vcore levels with Z97 due to differences with power delivery. I do not think this will affect maximum overclocking ability, but it is more of a side effect of the power delivery system intended for Devil's Canyon which is built into Z97.

 

[blackened23]

AMD could easily release a refresh for Kaveri. It looks like a couple hundred Mhz could easily be added, much like trinity -> richland.

Yes, they could easily do a refresh. Would it be competitive with anything that intel has, be it Haswell, Ivy, or Sandy in terms of CPU performance?

Well, the answer to that is, "LOL" for that I would agree with toyota, that question is a joke in and of itself. You could add 1ghz to the Kaveri and it still would not be competetive in terms of CPU performance/IPC. Now i'm sure some AMD reseller somewhere will link that one cherry picked OpenCL benchmark. Let's not kid ourselves though. Kaveri isn't in the same league in terms of IPC regardless of clockspeed. So really, there isn't much point in AMD doing that since the 7850k is already overpriced at 190$ as is...

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yes, they could easily do a refresh. Would it be competitive with anything that intel has, be it Haswell, Ivy, or Sandy in terms of CPU performance? That was the original question.

Well, the answer to that is, "LOL" and a big one at that. For that I would agree with toyota, that question is a joke in and of itself. You could add 1ghz to the Kaveri and it still would not be competetive in terms of CPU performance/IPC.

Not to mention that Kaveri is not even out yet in mobile. Would seem weird to do a desktop refresh when the mobile, where it is theoretically most appealing, is not even out yet.

 

[blackened23]

I think Kaveri *could* be appealing on desktop for lightweight/HTPC. But at 190$ for a desktop LGA part? What the heck? You can get a G3220, H81, with a discrete GPU which would far outperform the graphics portion of Kaveri by double or triple for only 50$ or so more. I'd assume that Pentium-K's will be similarly priced to current Haswell pentiums, so that's another point against Kaveri here.... Kaveri is a dual core just like the G3220. I don't really get the price of the 7850k. It has the potential to be a great value leader for HTPC, but not at 190$. The graphics (of Kaveri) are far, far worse than any 150$ dGPU which you can get complete with a G3220 for around 250$.

The price is still mind boggling to me. It has potential to be sure but i'm just not getting the price level. Richland is reasonably priced and performs similarly, though, so there's that.

But yeah. Kaveri isn't going to be in the same stratosphere or even reasonably close to DC in terms of CPU. I see them both as being designed for different market segments altogether, with the DC being aimed at the performance mainstream market. And that market doesn't bother with iGPU. It will do well there especially if the rumors are true.

 

[Haserath]

Why is the i5 so much slower with the same TDP? Does anyone think it will overclock as well, especially without the hyperthreading?

They do that for many of their chips. Anything not labelled T/S usually has the top bin's TDP.

I wouldn't pay any mind to it as long as both are getting all the improvements.

 

[erunion]

As expected, it was fake.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7963/...iew-core-i7-4790-i5-4690-and-i3-4360-tested/2

Edit:well...the Ks havent been announced yet so I guess its still possible, but I also still doubt it.

 

[RussianSensation]

Even if they bump the clocks to 4.4Ghz and it overclocks to 5.0Ghz, it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth because that's what Haswell 4770K should have been 1 year ago. For games, there shouldn't be much difference between a 4.5Ghz and 5.0Ghz Haswell since most games are GPU limited and will become even more so once more GPU demanding games such as Witcher 3 and The Division come out. Money would be far better spend on GPU upgrades for gamers.

On the other hand, if Skylake maintains its 2H 2015 launch frame, 14nm should bring lower power consumption and next generation features such as AVX 3.2, DDR4 and PCIe 4.0 (which means Ultra M.2 on PCIe 3.0/4.0 x4 should be on mobos next year for even faster SSD performance).

And if Intel prices it at $379-399, many will just jump straight to a 6-core $500 Haswell-E. If Intel wants to create excitement, this update should come in at 4770K's price.

 

[mikk]

As expected, it was fake.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7963/...iew-core-i7-4790-i5-4690-and-i3-4360-tested/2

Do I miss something there? I don't see K-model specs in you link. Devil's Canyon isn't out yet.

 

[Anarchist420]

is the L3 cache still clocked really low?

And if Intel prices it at $379-399, many will just jump straight to a 6-core $500 Haswell-E. If Intel wants to create excitement, this update should come in at 4770K's price.

who said haswell-e will be $500? just wondering

 

[NTMBK]

The stuff about power delivery is interesting. Are they not using the FIVR? That would certainly help with heat density issues, I always thought FIVR made more sense for mobile chips.

 

[erunion]

Do I miss something there? I don't see K-model specs in you link. Devil's Canyon isn't out yet.

Its just the non k models.

 

[Thor86]

Hmmm, this is actually quite tempting over Haswell-E. If these rumours are true.

 

[Shivansps]

I think Kaveri *could* be appealing on desktop for lightweight/HTPC. But at 190$ for a desktop LGA part? What the heck? You can get a G3220, H81, with a discrete GPU which would far outperform the graphics portion of Kaveri by double or triple for only 50$ or so more. I'd assume that Pentium-K's will be similarly priced to current Haswell pentiums, so that's another point against Kaveri here.... Kaveri is a dual core just like the G3220. I don't really get the price of the 7850k. It has the potential to be a great value leader for HTPC, but not at 190$. The graphics (of Kaveri) are far, far worse than any 150$ dGPU which you can get complete with a G3220 for around 250$.

The price is still mind boggling to me. It has potential to be sure but i'm just not getting the price level. Richland is reasonably priced and performs similarly, though, so there's that.

But yeah. Kaveri isn't going to be in the same stratosphere or even reasonably close to DC in terms of CPU. I see them both as being designed for different market segments altogether, with the DC being aimed at the performance mainstream market. And that market doesn't bother with iGPU. It will do well there especially if the rumors are true.

I did the calculation the other day, G3220+GTX750 cost just $4 more than the 7850K alone.

 

[Pheesh]

in case you guys forgot this was also in an earlier wccftech rumor:

The Core i7-4790K will be the flagship processor of the Haswell Refresh lineup and the first 22nm consumer CPU to obtain clock frequency of 4 GHz. It will feature 4 cores and 8 threads along with a fully unlocked design which will allow users to overclock the chip past the limits thanks to the improved thermal design and updated package materials.

http://wccftech.com/intel-devil-s-canyon-launching-june-2014/#ixzz31Xe4IZhN

 

[IntelUser2000]

On the other hand, if Skylake maintains its 2H 2015 launch frame,

AVX 2 should have been enough, yet we barely see any applications benefit from it. AVX 3.2 won't make a greater difference.

DDR4 is nice, but not too much for CPU. Also, the initial DDR4 models won't result in 2x bandwidth, just like how with DDR3 the initial models were DDR3-800 and DDR3-1066. Haswell-E's supposed to have DDR4-2133.

I HIGHLY doubt you'll see non-mobile Skylake chips launch at ANY POINT in 2015. That's probably one reason why the new K segment brings a significant increase. I'd expect Broadwell-K in Q2 2015 and Skylake-K in Q2 2016, if not later.

Based on leaked roadmaps I'd also expect K to divide into two:
-High clock CPU GT2 part
-Standard clock CPU GT3 part

You see, they've raised the TDP to 88W. Sometimes, its an indication they are preparing a new line. Changing TDP every generation might cause inconvenience with system integrators, so they keep it similar through multiple generations.

 

[tential]

Not even like a refresh or something? Damn it's not looking good for the future. We'll pay stupid amount for CPUs

There's no point releasing a refresh if it isn't competitive in some way. So if AMD isn't releasing a new desktop product to compete it's because they can't find a method to compete on at this point.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I always thought FIVR made more sense for mobile chips.

The FiVR is on the CPU die itself so they'll have to completely skip it in order for that to work. That may be true, I don't know.

The FiVR is also credited for iGPU performance gain on Haswell.