Convincing a College IT dept to Run BOINC on Classroom PCs

[TC10284]

Hey all,

I'm a part time worker at my local community college. I manage the PCs with removable hard drives in our networking lab (for computer courses) and sometimes the systems in the other classrooms in the specified building (without removable hard drives). Because I work there part time (and also a student), I am "in" pretty well with the faculty in that building. The trouble I would have, is getting the IT to see the abilities those systems (newer P4's in some classrooms, E6300 C2D's in others) could do. The other year I inquired about this, they had looks on their faces like "please don't give us any more to do!".

I already manage about 30-40 systems running BOINC 5.8.11/15 and all available projects that are NOT in classrooms (mostly 266MHz to 350MHz on the lower end and 700MHz to 2GHz on the "upper" end). But as I mentioned, I'd like to try to expand to some of the classroom PCs. I already have my account (DCCC) set to halt processing if the computer is in use. I use BOINCView to remotely manage BOINC on ALL systems.

Right now, I would have to get these (IMO) main points across to the IT/other faculty:

• I can remotely manage BOINC using BOINCView
  
  I can set each projects' preferences to process at a specific time during the day (if requested)
  
  I can set each projects' preferences to use the network at a specific time during the day (if requested)
  
  I can set ul/dl limits (if requested)
  
  The projects we chose can help to cure cancer, AIDS, diseases, find ET life, and many other scientific goals.
  
  The systems in the classrooms, when not in use by students, are just sitting there idle, not doing anything when they could be used for the aforementioned things.
  
  We would be one of the first community colleges in our area to allow BOINC project workunits to be processed on classroom PCs during idle CPU time
  
  BOINC can be installed as a service, and the BOINCmanager not allowed to open, so there would be no open BOINC windows while still allowing BOINC to process in the background (when idle)

A few issues that that I would have to figure out:

• 
  All classroom PCs have Deepfreeze installed. I would have to convince the IT to let me work with a PC with Deepfreeze (and perhaps let me know the Thaw-space and/or the unfreeze password) so that I could place all the BOINC related files in the thaw-space so if the PC is rebooted, the workunit progress will not be lost
  
  Extra power consumption
  
  Extra heat output (however, no one has yet complained about my current BOINC PCs and power/heat issues - except, they are not necessarily in an area where many people work).

Any other thoughts, suggestions, or solutions to my issues? Have I missed any major points?

 

[BlackMountainCow]

I guess safety is another aspect: Only use projects from well known and well scientificly researched authorities, like Berkely and such. No projects like "Belgian Beer @ Home" (as a worst case example). I think you could also write so people like the Rosetta folks and ask them to get in contact with your superiors to convince them.

The extra power usage is indeed a big issue. But if - for example - the Rosetta guys can make the point that the extra power is worth the effort, you're in good shape. But maybe some hard numbers would be good as well. A power meter, one week on a regular class room PC, and one week on a BOINC classroom PC, and you'd have some numbers about how much extra power --> extra money the college would have to spend.

 

[Spacehead]

But maybe some hard numbers would be good as well. A power meter, one week on a regular class room PC, and one week on a BOINC classroom PC, and you'd have some numbers about how much extra power --> extra money the college would have to spend.

Good idea.

With summer coming(i'm assuming you're in North Carolina) the extra heat will be an issue too. The AC has to run harder to compensate, so that'll be extra money for them to pay.

The other year I inquired about this, they had looks on their faces like "please don't give us any more to do!".

You can prove to them they won't have to do anything, other than maybe initial setup, as you're already managing 30 or so PCs. You do have permission for that, right?



Depending on which projects you/they choose to run, bandwidth use may be an issue too. That should be easy enough to figure out though, assuming most projects WU are roughly the same size(i don't run any BOINC projects so i don't know about that).


Just ask if you can try it on a couple of PCs to start with, as a test.


Compile a list of projects that the collage might be interested in with a brief explaination of each to present to them.

 

[Assimilator1]

I can't myself help you much here ,but I've some info you might find interesting about power useage.

My main PC is an XPM 2500 o/c to 2.5GHz & I run DPAD or BOINC SETI on it (DPAD atm).
I also have a mains power meter ,with the PC idle it uses ~160w ,running DPAD or SETI it uses ~180w.
I could also give you some power figures on my Sempron64 rig too if you like ,though because I've o/ced that too I don't have CnQ installed.LMK

Btw the difference though would be greater on any Ath64 rig or Intel P4 rig that has CnQ or Speedstep (I think that's the Intel equivalent) installed & running.

What's Deepfreeze btw?

Good luck on your assimilation attempt............resistance is futile

 

[TC10284]

Originally posted by: BlackMountainCow
I guess safety is another aspect: Only use projects from well known and well scientificly researched authorities, like Berkely and such. No projects like "Belgian Beer @ Home" (as a worst case example). I think you could also write so people like the Rosetta folks and ask them to get in contact with your superiors to convince them.

Great ideas. I'd most likely only attach to projects that are in the non-alpha/non-beta stage. Those that are fully operational. It would most likely be WCG, Rosetta, and other health related projects.

The extra power usage is indeed a big issue. But if - for example - the Rosetta guys can make the point that the extra power is worth the effort, you're in good shape. But maybe some hard numbers would be good as well. A power meter, one week on a regular class room PC, and one week on a BOINC classroom PC, and you'd have some numbers about how much extra power --> extra money the college would have to spend.

Will Rosetta/other projects do this for me?
Are you speaking of something like a Kill-a-watt?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001

Do you know the product names of similar products?

 

[BlackMountainCow]

The Rosetta guys won't really do that for you, but if they can convince your superiors that their project is worth crunching, that should also make the point that the extra money spent on power is worth the effort.

I am not from the US, so no, I don't know any other brands with products like that. But the one from new egg looks just right.

 

[TC10284]

Originally posted by: Spacehead

With summer coming(i'm assuming you're in North Carolina) the extra heat will be an issue too. The AC has to run harder to compensate, so that'll be extra money for them to pay.

Yes, this is one of my biggest concerns. That and heat dissipation. When talking with my supervisor, he kind of downplayed those two issues though, implying they wouldn't be that big of a deal. However, I think differently.

You can prove to them they won't have to do anything, other than maybe initial setup, as you're already managing 30 or so PCs. You do have permission for that, right?

Yes, the only thing they would have to do would be to create the initial Ghost images with BOINC and a project already attached. I'd be doing the work of figuring out the Thaw-space for Deepfreeze and installing BOINC to that location. I'd have to have them to either setup a test PC with Deepfreeze and a test unfreeze password, or convince them to let me have access to their current unfreeze password. Also, to whoever asked what Deepfreeze is, Deepfreeze is basically a program admins install after they get a PC to an initial state that they want (programs, apps, etc). Then they "freeze" the system. Then, when someone such as students (in our case) use the system and make ANY modifications to the OS, after rebooting, the system will be back to its original state. And yes, I'm sure there are ways to break Deepfreeze, I'd just have to do it the legitimate way =D
The only other thing they may have to do is update the BOINC client after every semester or so.
Yes, I have permission from my supervisor for my current systems.

Depending on which projects you/they choose to run, bandwidth use may be an issue too. That should be easy enough to figure out though, assuming most projects WU are roughly the same size(i don't run any BOINC projects so i don't know about that).

I mentioned in a PowerPoint presentation that all the projects are configurable to only use the network at a certain time and/or use a certain up/down speed (as well as many other configurable options). I would hope that would cover that issue.

Just ask if you can try it on a couple of PCs to start with, as a test.

Compile a list of projects that the collage might be interested in with a brief explaination of each to present to them.

Also excellent ideas!

 

[TC10284]

Also, one other "issue":
They may ask about the security of the BOINC client. I know that port 31416 is used by the BOINC client. I don't suppose this would open an internal "hole" on the BOINC installed PCs. BOINC wouldn't be on any public IP'd PCs though.
I can't remember if they run the Windows firewall on the PCs or not. If so, I'd probably have to have them create an exception for that port since I'll be using BOINCView to manage the clients

 

[Assimilator1]

Originally posted by: TC10284

Originally posted by: BlackMountainCow
Are you speaking of something like a Kill-a-watt?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001

Do you know the product names of similar products?

Here's the power meter I bought ,made by Maplins(?)
Hmm ,I don;t know if they do a 110v version ,that's what you have in the US right?

 

[TC10284]

Here's the power meter I bought ,made by Maplins(?)
Hmm ,I don;t know if they do a 110v version ,that's what you have in the US right?

Yes, 110v here.

Oh yea...Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. You will service...us. Talks are irrelevant, preparations are irrelevant.

 

[Crazee]

With deepfreeze on the machines you would want to install it in thaw space. If you didn't every time the machine would reboot it would go back to the workunit it was working on when you froze it.

 

[BlackMountainCow]

I agree with Crazee. You don't want the same WU to be started over and over again. But you can also make sure that the default crunch time for a Rosey WU is set to three hours, so you should not get into troubles with deadlines or restarting WUs.

Also, from time to time, you should update the deepfreeze image. As Rosey from time to time releases new application version, you'd end up with massive downloads each day if the current app is not part of the deepfreeze image yet. Not really an issue right now, but something to keep in mind for later on if you get permission.

 

[TC10284]

Originally posted by: Crazee
With deepfreeze on the machines you would want to install it in thaw space. If you didn't every time the machine would reboot it would go back to the workunit it was working on when you froze it.

Yes, I understand this.
Quote from me:
"All classroom PCs have Deepfreeze installed. I would have to convince the IT to let me work with a PC with Deepfreeze (and perhaps let me know the Thaw-space and/or the unfreeze password) so that I could place all the BOINC related files in the thaw-space so if the PC is rebooted, the workunit progress will not be lost "

Getting their PW or letting me tinker with DeepFreeze may be a challenge though.

 

[Crazee]

You probably want to convince them that they need the thawspace for something else as well. How are they handling student profiles? Are they using roaming profiles or are students having to redo their application settings after a machine reboot? Do students store everything on network shares or do they need some local storage?

It sounds like there is no software delivery system that installs software through the network. You wouldn't have to worry about ghost images then.

 

[TC10284]

Originally posted by: Crazee
You probably want to convince them that they need the thawspace for something else as well. How are they handling student profiles? Are they using roaming profiles or are students having to redo their application settings after a machine reboot? Do students store everything on network shares or do they need some local storage?

It sounds like there is no software delivery system that installs software through the network. You wouldn't have to worry about ghost images then.

They are just using a normal domain account "student" and they want the student to save their work on a flash drive or similar.

They primarily use Ghost images now. Wouldn't they have to make a new Ghost image since I would be running BOINC as a Windows service?

 

[Crazee]

Originally posted by: TC10284
They are just using a normal domain account "student" and they want the student to save their work on a flash drive or similar.

They primarily use Ghost images now. Wouldn't they have to make a new Ghost image since I would be running BOINC as a Windows service?

So do they have their own student account or do they use a single domain account called student?

It wouldn't be necessary to change images if they have a software delivery system such as Unicenter Software Delivery, Altiris, and many others. BOINC comes as an msi install which makes it easy for a software delivery system to deploy it even as a service.

 

[TC10284]

So do they have their own student account or do they use a single domain account called student?

It wouldn't be necessary to change images if they have a software delivery system such as Unicenter Software Delivery, Altiris, and many others. BOINC comes as an msi install which makes it easy for a software delivery system to deploy it even as a service.

They have a single account called "student" on the domain.

Yea, I have taken a quick glance at the Lazy Slugs guide to deploying BOINC to a domain, however, I still think they would be issues of DeepFreeze restarting the workunits/project to the image creation date if the system is rebooted. I don't think there will be a way around that without putting the files in the thaw folder.

 

[Crazee]

You would definitely have to install it in the thaw space, but that wouldn't be a problem for a network deployment using an MSI file if you had a decent software delivery system. You should find out if they use the maintenance window to update the systems. For example at the college where I work, we employ an overnight maintenance window that starts at 10:30pm and ends at 5:00am. This means deepfreeze will thaw the machine during that time, but lock the keyboard and mouse. That way we can push patch updates out through WSUS and deploy any programs they might need through our CA software delivery system.

I am surprised that students don't get their own accounts. How do they handle student email? (The reason I am asking about student accounts is to come up with some reasons for thaw space besides BOINC).

 

[TC10284]

Originally posted by: Crazee
You would definitely have to install it in the thaw space, but that wouldn't be a problem for a network deployment using an MSI file if you had a decent software delivery system. You should find out if they use the maintenance window to update the systems. For example at the college where I work, we employ an overnight maintenance window that starts at 10:30pm and ends at 5:00am. This means deepfreeze will thaw the machine during that time, but lock the keyboard and mouse. That way we can push patch updates out through WSUS and deploy any programs they might need through our CA software delivery system.

I am surprised that students don't get their own accounts. How do they handle student email? (The reason I am asking about student accounts is to come up with some reasons for thaw space besides BOINC).

I like this idea. I'm not familiar with what the IT over there uses to send out patches/other apps. AFAIK, they just make an entire new Ghost image when they need an update sent out. I could definitely be wrong about that though.

I would like to investigate WSUS some more. I have used it in the past here at home but found that it was not worth the HD space (for just my home network and having a 5mbps WAN connection). Now I'd like to try it at school for some of my PC's up there (since they have a SLOW WAN connection...usually <10KB/sec per connection).

I know. Crazy isn't it? Every university campus I have visited, a student has their own account. Faculty members have their own domain account however. But I suppose since we are a community college...sigh.

 

[Crazee]

I am the Director of Infrastructure for a Community College. Our students have their own accounts with roaming profiles and home drives. I am still really surprised that you guys don't have individual student accounts. There are so many things that can be done to enhance the environment when you have individual accounts.

Man if they make a new ghost image every time they need to do updates that would be a real time killer :shocked: If nothing else, they should utilize the maintenance mode and put up some WSUS servers. 3.0 Release Candidate has done very well for us.