Convince me what I should think about the legalisation of Cannabis!

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Do you agree with the legalisation of Cannabis?

  • I think it should be made legal

  • I think it should stay illegal

  • I'm indifferent either way

  • Other (explained in thread)


Results are only viewable after voting.

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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No, what we do is force them to do a test to see if they are capable of driving.

But many of them will fail that test and drive anyway. At least where I live the number of unlicensed drivers is atrocious. But you still didn't answer the main question, who gets to decide what is and isn't good for society?
Are skateboards okay? The number of kids that are seriously injured or killed on those is also terrible.
 

ahenkel

Diamond Member
Jan 11, 2009
5,357
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Part of living in a society where people are free to have choice is the risk that some of those people are going to make poor choices. We let people do a myriad of things that are or could be potentially hazardous. There is little sense in restricting everyone's behavior because a few people decide to be a reprobate.

In regards to marijuana being iilegal the costs fighting it have far outwayed the potential risks.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
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But many of them will fail that test and drive anyway. At least where I live the number of unlicensed drivers is atrocious. But you still didn't answer the main question, who gets to decide what is and isn't good for society?
Are skateboards okay? The number of kids that are seriously injured or killed on those is also terrible.

Society gets to decide what is good for society, that's the point of democracy.

Part of living in a society where people are free to have choice is the risk that some of those people are going to make poor choices. We let people do a myriad of things that are or could be potentially hazardous. There is little sense in restricting everyone's behavior because a few people decide to be a reprobate.

In regards to marijuana being iilegal the costs fighting it have far outwayed the potential risks.

But the things that we let them do, have benefits generally, with the obvious exception of extreme sports, which is not really something that stupid ill informed people can get into easily spontaneously one afternoon while drunk.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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There are some people not capable of being educated properly on this subject, some people who will not be educated on the subject and some people stupid enough to disregard their education.

None of that is a problem with education and is a problem with how we manage our society. You're blaming tools people use and not the people themselves. You do not understand personal responsibility and you do not understand liberty. People will make mistakes, it's inevitable and impossible to prevent.

Also, what do you mean some people aren't capable of being educated properly? Why wouldn't they? No one is genetically inferior to another, everyone has the capability for knowledge and learning. It's a crucial part of being a human and how we've accomplished so much. But if you believe people are genetically inferior, I'd like you to read up on another man in history who thought the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
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When you smoke it, it can have a lot.

However, if it was legal and you could get your hands on a substantial amount of it for a fair price (and not have to worry about being arrested as a drug dealer because of the amount you have in your posession), then you could cook food with it (the drug binds to fatty foods...people make "cannabutter"), and when you eat it you don't get those same negative health effects that smoking it would give you.

Just start reading pro and con articles online and you'll find all the information you need to make your mind up for yourself.

Yup, there are many marijuana dispensaries that do edibles since many people cannot smoke it, chocolates, nacho cheese, candies, etc.

Also yet again Hal has made a thread which has been discussed to death millions of times on here before.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
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None of that is a problem with education and is a problem with how we manage our society. You're blaming tools people use and not the people themselves. You do not understand personal responsibility and you do not understand liberty. People will make mistakes, it's inevitable and impossible to prevent.

But it is societies responsibility to maximise life for it's citizens, minimise mistakes, particularly when it comes to affecting the lives of others.

Also, what do you mean some people aren't capable of being educated properly? Why wouldn't they? No one is genetically inferior to another, everyone has the capability for knowledge and learning. It's a crucial part of being a human and how we've accomplished so much. But if you believe people are genetically inferior, I'd like you to read up on another man in history who thought the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

Some people are genetically inferior with regards to certain things, some people (like me) have inferior memories, some people have inferior intellects, some people have all sorts of problems or skills that makes them innately inferior or superior in every area of life.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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And we can do that through education and openness. These are not issues that cannot be dealt with in far more civil matters than outright stripping citizens of their rights. Like I said, mistakes will always occur we can never stop them and you are correct in saying society has to minimize them. I'm saying we can do so in more efficient matters.

And you're right some people are inferior in certain parts of life, but that doesn't mean WE as a society, as a people, should take their rights away from them because of it. We aren't robots, we are people. You say you love life, but it doesn't seem so much that you love life, it's more like you only love your own.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
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Society gets to decide what is good for society, that's the point of democracy.

Only in basic. Democracy was never intended to make laws like that. That is what is called 'tyranny of the masses.' It sets you up for banning anything that is unpopular. Since large corporations control the media, and therefore what is popular or not it give them the ability to write the laws. This is why the US (and most other democracies) has a constitution and judicial oversight system



But the things that we let them do, have benefits generally, with the obvious exception of extreme sports, which is not really something that stupid ill informed people can get into easily spontaneously one afternoon while drunk.

LOL, You should live in Texas. Trust me, extreme sports are done by drunk stupid men all the time.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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And we can do that through education and openness. These are not issues that cannot be dealt with in far more civil matters than outright stripping citizens of their rights. Like I said, mistakes will always occur we can never stop them and you are correct in saying society has to minimize them. I'm saying we can do so in more efficient matters.

And you're right some people are inferior in certain parts of life, but that doesn't mean WE as a society, as a people, should take their rights away from them because of it. We aren't robots, we are people. You say you love life, but it doesn't seem so much that you love life, it's more like you only love your own.

I do love my own life, but it's hard to love anyone elses without experiencing it first hand. I value all life. More than a lot of people in this forum it would seem.

Some people need their rights taken away as they are not capable of executing them safely, like how you don't give a child an assault rifle and say "go play"
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Only in basic. Democracy was never intended to make laws like that. That is what is called 'tyranny of the masses.' It sets you up for banning anything that is unpopular. Since large corporations control the media, and therefore what is popular or not it give them the ability to write the laws. This is why the US (and most other democracies) has a constitution and judicial oversight system

There's a difference between banning unpopular things and banning dangerous things, like banning citizens from owning nuclear weapons.

LOL, You should live in Texas. Trust me, extreme sports are done by drunk stupid men all the time.

Haha oh dear.
 

ahenkel

Diamond Member
Jan 11, 2009
5,357
3
81
Society gets to decide what is good for society, that's the point of democracy.



But the things that we let them do, have benefits generally, with the obvious exception of extreme sports, which is not really something that stupid ill informed people can get into easily spontaneously one afternoon while drunk.

So we should ban everything that doesn't have a benefit on society then?
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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But it is societies responsibility to maximise life for it's citizens, minimise mistakes, particularly when it comes to affecting the lives of others.

Here I think you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion. I believe that society’s responsibility is to create a framework in which a person has an opportunity to maximize his life, learn from his mistakes, and make decisions on how he wants to live. Maximising life in and of itself is not a goal, some things are worth dying for, and somethings are not worth living through.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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I do love my own life, but it's hard to love anyone elses without experiencing it first hand. I value all life. More than a lot of people in this forum it would seem.

Some people need their rights taken away as they are not capable of executing them safely, like how you don't give a child an assault rifle and say "go play"

You really don't though. You want to prevent others from living. Living is more than just being alive, it's the sum of our existence, why would you deny someone expressing their existence? Punishment for harming the lives of others I can definitely agree with, even harsher penalties for people abusing things to cause harm to others lives, but I cannot agree with stripping others of their rights to live their life how they choose.

I value liberty above all else. All aliments of society can be mitigated through education, this is how we are evolving further as a species. No one wants to remain ignorant, we all strive for knowledge of some sort. It's part of the human condition to wonder why.


btw, you are the very definition of a conservative. You do not embrace change, you embrace status quo and stagnation. You want life to conform to your view of it and that is sad.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
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Here I think you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion. I believe that society’s responsibility is to create a framework in which a person has an opportunity to maximize his life, learn from his mistakes, and make decisions on how he wants to live. Maximising life in and of itself is not a goal, some things are worth dying for, and somethings are not worth living through.

I believe that societies responsibility is to create a safe infrastructure for maximize his life, learn from his mistakes, and make decisions on how he wants to live. Protecting it's citizens and arresting those that threaten others. It should also offer good health care to keep it's citizens healthy.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
You really don't though. You want to prevent others from living. Living is more than just being alive, it's the sum of our existence, why would you deny someone expressing their existence? Punishment for harming the lives of others I can definitely agree with, even harsher penalties for people abusing things to cause harm to others lives, but I cannot agree with stripping others of their rights to live their life how they choose.

Because maximising their life is not possible if dead.

I value liberty above all else. All aliments of society can be mitigated through education, this is how we are evolving further as a species. No one wants to remain ignorant, we all strive for knowledge of some sort. It's part of the human condition to wonder why.


btw, you are the very definition of a conservative. You do not embrace change, you embrace status quo and stagnation. You want life to conform to your view of it and that is sad.

I do embrace change, that's why I started this thread to learn what needs to change or what needs to stay. Life needs to conform to societies view or there is chaos. I value life above all else. not liberty.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
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No just things that are ONLY detrimental to society. Like nuclear weapons. etc.

And cigarettes and McDonald's and alcohol and dumb people, and mentally retarded people, the list goes on. That's a very idiotic statement you make but you portray yourself in an idiotic way on here.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
And cigarettes and McDonald's and alcohol and dumb people, and mentally retarded people, the list goes on. That's a very idiotic statement you make but you portray yourself in an idiotic way on here.

That's why I gave him the link to Hitler's wiki. Hitler had a similar train of thought. Many of the most famous "evil" dictators did.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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And cigarettes and McDonald's and alcohol and dumb people, and mentally retarded people, the list goes on. That's a very idiotic statement you make but you portray yourself in an idiotic way on here.

Which is why I absolutely believe cigarettes should be banned. McDonald's however is food. You can't ban food.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
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There's a difference between banning unpopular things and banning dangerous things, like banning citizens from owning nuclear weapons.

Yes, but you said,
Originally Posted by HAL9000
Society gets to decide what is good for society, that's the point of democracy.
If that is our method, then the results of unpopular and dangerous are the same thing. Don't like cannabis, well it is dangerous (we will just ignore all the data saying otherwise).
Don't like videogames? Well, they are dangerous. We can find some scientists to say so! We will just ignore all those that say otherwise.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
There's a difference between banning unpopular things and banning dangerous things, like banning citizens from owning nuclear weapons.

Yes, but you said,

If that is our method, then the results of unpopular and dangerous are the same thing. Don't like cannabis, well it is dangerous (we will just ignore all the data saying otherwise).
Don't like videogames? Well, they are dangerous. We can find some scientists to say so! We will just ignore all those that say otherwise.

I just have faith that the majority of society are able to make reasoned decisions about what is best for them, that is how democracy works.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I just have faith that the majority of society are able to make reasoned decisions about what is best for them, that is how democracy works.

No you don't. You do not have faith in the majority of society to make reasoned decisions, you hold your certain view point because you are fearful of the majority of society not making reasoned decisions. You really need to understand this folly before any "learning" you wish to do can begin.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
No you don't. You do not have faith in the majority of society to make reasoned decisions, you hold your certain view point because you are fearful of the majority of society not making reasoned decisions. You really need to understand this folly before any "learning" you wish to do can begin.

I believe that if the majority of society believes something should be banned, then it should. Like hate speech. (in the UK)

"Bread and circuses"

What?
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
No you don't. You do not have faith in the majority of society to make reasoned decisions, you hold your certain view point because you are fearful of the majority of society not making reasoned decisions. You really need to understand this folly before any "learning" you wish to do can begin.

Exactly, he says killing anything is bad no matter what, he says guns are bad no matter what, it doesn't matter that there are many logical reasons for these to happen but to him, if he doesn't like it, it automatically needs to be removed from society.