converting a DVD to HD Mpeg or AVI

[PoopyPants]

well i got a few of my favorite movies i want to turn into HD i dont care about the codec or size.. ok well id rather not have a 10gig movie lol..

is there a tool somewhere that can do this for me. i knwo there is but what..?
i've searched around and cant find what i need.

can someone throw me a bone here.

720p conversion is really all i need.
(yes im currently looking for a GOOD upconverting dvd player also)

 

[keeleysam]

So you want to upconvert a video to a gigantic .TS file?

 

[PoopyPants]

not particulary.. but if thats my choice ok..
and like i said not a huge massive file.. 720p isnt THAT large.. ive seen 1.1gig 45min runs before.

and no i have no intension on splitting them unless they get so large i have no choice...
ive seen 1080i at 10gigs but not 720p..

i just want atleast 720p... with excellent quality.. no pixelation, gradient noise yada yada...

i got this crazy conroe of mine i figure its time to put it to good use!

 

[Tom]

I'm pretty sure a 720p file would be larger than a 1080i file.

How do you plan to play back the file you create ? I thought dvd player software, like powerdvd, etc., upconverted during playback ?

 

[PoopyPants]

a 45min mkv file encoded in 720p is 1.09gig
a full length movie in .TS format in 1080i is approaching 10gigs. full length movie now is usually 90 minutes or less. maybe 2

now on the upconverting. no thats not entirely what happens.

sure they will play it in full screen at the resolution that your monitor/video card are set at.. but.. watch that same DVD doing that vs... lets say watching the same movie on HBO HD 1080i or some other in 720p... big difference.


listen all im asking for is what software is out there than can convert a DVD into 720p...

 

[Tom]

The reason a movie on HBO HD looks better is becasue it's in higher resolution than a DVD.

There is no way to make a DVD, which is 480p, look like it has same resolution as something with higher resolution. Maybe you can make it display better than normal 480p on a higher rez screen, but it isn't going to be the same as a real 720p or 1080i version.

 

[TheRyuu]

If you want to convert a movie into a higher res then why not just use ffdshow?
With that you should be able to upsize it a bit.
You can check out my ffdshow config guide:
http://www.tweaksrus.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7034

If you want to encode it to your HD you'll need a number of different programs if you want to do it manually.
If you want to do it automatically, then just download a program called AutoGK http://www.autogk.me.uk/

If you want to do it manually you'll need:
CCCP installed
Virtual Dub Mod
HeadAC3che or some other audio encoder (like dbpoweramp)

And thats the basics.
Read here as well:
http://www.doom9.org/

And Xvid two pass walkthrough:
http://nic.dnsalias.com/xvid.html

That cover it?

 

[rbV5]

If you want to convert a movie into a higher res then why not just use ffdshow?

*Waste of storage
*Loss of original bits during upscaling = worse PQ than original source.
*Graphics card can rescale in real time at better quality using original source.

That all equals no good reason to upscale ANY video file during encoding ever.

 

[TheRyuu]

Originally posted by: rbV5

If you want to convert a movie into a higher res then why not just use ffdshow?

*Waste of storage
*Loss of original bits during upscaling = worse PQ than original source.
*Graphics card can rescale in real time at better quality using original source.

That all equals no good reason to upscale ANY video file during encoding ever.

I didn't mean durning encoding, I meant when you played it back.
Why not use ffdshow to watch the original 480 source with say 3x the size upscaled. Looks really nice on my 20.1in WS

If I did encode movies (i do it sometimes) I would always either do 1:1 res/pixel (so same size) or even reduce the size slightly to save some space (640x360?).

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: wizboy11

Originally posted by: rbV5

If you want to convert a movie into a higher res then why not just use ffdshow?

*Waste of storage
*Loss of original bits during upscaling = worse PQ than original source.
*Graphics card can rescale in real time at better quality using original source.

That all equals no good reason to upscale ANY video file during encoding ever.

I didn't mean durning encoding, I meant when you played it back.
Why not use ffdshow to watch the original 480 source with say 3x the size upscaled. Looks really nice on my 20.1in WS

If I did encode movies (i do it sometimes) I would always either do 1:1 res/pixel (so same size) or even reduce the size slightly to save some space (640x360?).

OK, that makes more sense . Although I still think I would use his Nvidia hardware over ffdshow for scaling/post processing.

 

[Slammy1]

Acyually, you use the NVidia decoder (comes free with TheaterTek front end software or is like $20 to download) with ffdshow to riesize and sharpen. Once optimized, it should play any source at resized level in apparant HiDef. This won't be as good as real HiDef, mind you, but the improvement over regular players (WMP et al) and most STBs (aside from the really expensive ones) is major. They are coming out with STBs that are basically narrowed purpose HTPCs like the Toshiba A1 at around $500 which have an advantage in scaling over the PC, but you have more ability to customize a PC so you still net better quality (though it definitely depends on how much you want to research it).

This is a good guide for setting up ffdshow as well:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041

I don't follow it except for AVISynth scripts (I mainly use the native filters of ZoomPlayer) but it is a simplified guide to get you started in some advanced functionality.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Slammy1
Acyually, you use the NVidia decoder (comes free with TheaterTek front end software or is like $20 to download) with ffdshow to riesize and sharpen. Once optimized, it should play any source at resized level in apparant HiDef. This won't be as good as real HiDef, mind you, but the improvement over regular players (WMP et al) and most STBs (aside from the really expensive ones) is major. They are coming out with STBs that are basically narrowed purpose HTPCs like the Toshiba A1 at around $500 which have an advantage in scaling over the PC, but you have more ability to customize a PC so you still net better quality (though it definitely depends on how much you want to research it).

This is a good guide for setting up ffdshow as well:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041

I don't follow it except for AVISynth scripts (I mainly use the native filters of ZoomPlayer) but it is a simplified guide to get you started in some advanced functionality.

Seriously, why go through all that with a 7800 GTX? Nvidia Purevideo hardware + decoder with WMP outscored even Highend DVD players by a decent margin with the HQV DVD test.

I could see using the software it if you didn't have the hardware, but a 7800GTX + purevideo alone looks to be kickass, what makes you think ffdshow is better in this case?

 

[TheRyuu]

Originally posted by: Slammy1
Acyually, you use the NVidia decoder (comes free with TheaterTek front end software or is like $20 to download) with ffdshow to riesize and sharpen. Once optimized, it should play any source at resized level in apparant HiDef. This won't be as good as real HiDef, mind you, but the improvement over regular players (WMP et al) and most STBs (aside from the really expensive ones) is major. They are coming out with STBs that are basically narrowed purpose HTPCs like the Toshiba A1 at around $500 which have an advantage in scaling over the PC, but you have more ability to customize a PC so you still net better quality (though it definitely depends on how much you want to research it).

This is a good guide for setting up ffdshow as well:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041

I don't follow it except for AVISynth scripts (I mainly use the native filters of ZoomPlayer) but it is a simplified guide to get you started in some advanced functionality.

I basically took that guide, and expanded it to make it a lot easier for beginners. I don't explain the AVISyth scrips (i just skip over that, and say it's optional). I just cover the basics with MPC, Purevideo, and ffdshow.

Originally posted by: rbV5
Seriously, why go through all that with a 7800 GTX? Nvidia Purevideo hardware + decoder with WMP outscored even Highend DVD players by a decent margin with the HQV DVD test.

I could see using the software it if you didn't have the hardware, but a 7800GTX + purevideo alone looks to be kickass, what makes you think ffdshow is better in this case?

Because even with Nvidia Purevideo, your still at 720x480. You can't just expand it and expect it too look good on a 1680x1050 WS monitor. You need to RESIZE it and FILTER it. Purevideo+ffdshow=good. Purevideo by itself is just meh, and ffdshow by itself is still ok.

 

[rbV5]

Because even with Nvidia Purevideo, your still at 720x480. You can't just expand it and expect it too look good on a 1680x1050 WS monitor. You need to RESIZE it and FILTER it. Purevideo+ffdshow=good. Purevideo by itself is just meh, and ffdshow by itself is still ok.

Nvidia's 7800 GPU hardware uses advanced 4 tap x 5 tap hardware scaling, what do you mean "expand it" and expect it to look good, or "you're still at 720x480"?

Nvidia also uses advanced hardware filtering/post processing, including the new sharpening and noise reduction features.

What basis are you using for you comparison of ffdshow with Nvidia's Purevideo harware scaling/filtering? I'd like to see some comparison shots showing ffdshow >Nvidia purevideo hardware in its current state.

I'd have to make the assumption that if Nvidia harware is > than most highend DVD players and it looks like crap 1680x1050 WS monitor...that those highend DVD players look even worse? Sounds exaggerated IMO.

 

[TheRyuu]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Because even with Nvidia Purevideo, your still at 720x480. You can't just expand it and expect it too look good on a 1680x1050 WS monitor. You need to RESIZE it and FILTER it. Purevideo+ffdshow=good. Purevideo by itself is just meh, and ffdshow by itself is still ok.

Nvidia's 7800 GPU hardware uses advanced 4 tap x 5 tap hardware scaling, what do you mean "expand it" and expect it to look good, or "you're still at 720x480"?

Nvidia also uses advanced hardware filtering/post processing, including the new sharpening and noise reduction features.

What basis are you using for you comparison of ffdshow with Nvidia's Purevideo harware scaling/filtering? I'd like to see some comparison shots showing ffdshow >Nvidia purevideo hardware in its current state.

I'd have to make the assumption that if Nvidia harware is > than most highend DVD players and it looks like crap 1680x1050 WS monitor...that those highend DVD players look even worse? Sounds exaggerated IMO.

Were on the Purevideo screen can I scale it.

I doubt it could beat ffdshow and the Lanczos scaler.

Do you know what I'm even talking about?

Edit: and yes, I realize that using ffdshow+Purevideo forces Purevideo into software mode, but the quality is still 1000x better then if I didn't have ffdshow at all. (hardware accelarated only increases the speed, the end product is still the same)

ALSO, I know about the Purevideo "enhancements" but the only one I use is inverse techline. The others just don't hold up to ffdshow.

 

[xtknight]

I'm curious as to where I can access these PureVideo scaling features as well. Have they been implemented in any software?

Edit: OK so it seems to have worked on the HQV DVD. Is this only for MPEG2 video or what? How does this work? When you resize the output window does it send something back to the decoder asking the GPU to perform a resize?

Also, can't this stuff be performed on the GPU much more efficiently? I saw some GPU-accelerated 3D noise filter for AviSynth that used DirectX9 and shaders and it worked really well. Why hasn't ffdshow done any of this yet? I know this is the premise of PureVideo but I'm wondering why ffdshow hasn't taken advantage of shaders yet.

 

[Slammy1]

rbv5, if you go through the HTPC forums of AVS you'll find large numbers of people who scale as we're describing. Definitely an improvement over the straight NVidia decoders. If you're willing to look through the threads (like the AVISynth or FFDShow FAQ) I'm sure you can find people who performed the direct comparisons as you want, though the questions been decided so many of the picture comparisons may not be available any longer and no one posts additional since, as I stated, the idea's been tested by any number of people. The thing about display is it is subjective, and doing resize before scaling is not as easy as any thread could describe (it's a lot of trial and error, with local maxima in PQ and many red herrings) so you really need to try it out yourself. With some basic set up even using the lowest recommended settings (straight resize, sharpen, blur/NR) you should see a considerable improvement in picture quality short of those funny little issues that make HTPC a PITA. I run DScaler5008 since I have an ATI card, absolutely blows away the latest DVD software in MMC.

EDIT: I think I read the same review as you did. I am aware of the new decoders, and I don't run them (don't have them) but people with the high end systems are still resizing and posting very positive results.

 

[PoopyPants]

ahh gordian knot jesus its been years since i used that program... forgot about it.. and since we are in the hd era i dont even know what programs have been updated to do HD.
i used to just rip my DVD's with Flaskmpeg.
i basically had my rips down to 2 cd's with 95% DVD qualtiy.

i used to test different configurations with the movie Pitch Black for its dark opening and many othee dark scenes to desk for gradiant shadows and other pixelation.

since then i have forgotten everything.....

i only have a few dvd's to convert i just more or less want to do it for fun.. something to do ya know..

 

[rbV5]

Were on the Purevideo screen can I scale it.

I doubt it could beat ffdshow and the Lanczos scaler.

Do you know what I'm even talking about? .

I'm somewhat a video enthusiast and am familiar with hardware and software topics having many posts/discussions of advanced topics both here and elsewhere. I'm also aware that long threads at AVS: never "everyone agree's", are mixed with plenty of BS, and fill with posters that think if they post more or in CAPS that they're more right...just like here.

To cut to the chase without going too in-depth, why not simply test ffdshow against Purevideo alone with the HQV DVD test? I'm not easily convinced by user feedback or manufacturer claims, nor reviewers.

I've got to tell you, DVD PQ using XP MCE with my X1800 based rigs on both my 720p LCD and 1080i CRT RPTV Displays using the ATI Cyberlink decoder is excellent. I can't believe that Purevideo hardware would be noticably worse currently. My own testing with building filter graphs in Graphedit doesn't show me to be worth the hassle for DVD playback vs just firing up MCE and enjoying the show, but for PQ, I might if it were noticably better...I'm just not so convinced that playing the software dance is really worth the effort any more.

 

[PoopyPants]

well unles si am missing some very key plugins AutoGK doesnt do HD of an kind resizing to 1280x720 is not 720p.. its not hd at all.
there arent any options for HD either.. and it only does 2-pass.. not nearly enough for a clean hd conversion
it also doesnt even let you fill 1 dvd....

its a nice simple low grade auto conversion tool but definately not for HD...

 

[TheRyuu]

Originally posted by: PoopyPants
well unles si am missing some very key plugins AutoGK doesnt do HD of an kind resizing to 1280x720 is not 720p.. its not hd at all.
there arent any options for HD either.. and it only does 2-pass.. not nearly enough for a clean hd conversion
it also doesnt even let you fill 1 dvd....

its a nice simple low grade auto conversion tool but definately not for HD...

If your upscaling from 480 then it's not worth it. Waste of space.

 

[xtknight]

AutoGK is just a front-end for encoding MPEG-4. It doesn't do any upscaling.

I don't believe there are any tools like you describe in the OP. There are ones that do realtime postprocessing like ffdshow, but to actually store this postprocessed data in a file is a different story.

When you play back a video, compressed data is sent to a decoder. This decoder sends its data to the postprocessor. Now the postprocessor has a matrix of 720x480 pixels (example). It sends this to the renderer. What you are asking for is that instead of this data being sent to the renderer, it be sent to a file (I/O). There's a big problem with this: the data is in an uncompressed state. We all know that losslessly encoding a file twice will reduce the quality severely, so recompressing it is not an option since it will decrease overall quality by two-fold. If you expect the file to be the same size AND better quality, you are expecting too much. The best you can do is have a gigantic file (think Google database size, well not quite that big) to store the uncompressed video. Obviously that's not feasible either.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: PoopyPants
a 45min mkv file encoded in 720p is 1.09gig
a full length movie in .TS format in 1080i is approaching 10gigs. full length movie now is usually 90 minutes or less. maybe 2

now on the upconverting. no thats not entirely what happens.

sure they will play it in full screen at the resolution that your monitor/video card are set at.. but.. watch that same DVD doing that vs... lets say watching the same movie on HBO HD 1080i or some other in 720p... big difference.


listen all im asking for is what software is out there than can convert a DVD into 720p...

fist of all that statemen make no sence.
.mkv file (its onla container) encoded in 720p (720p is a resolution not a compression format)

now to upconvert a dvd you can use many things ut i woul recommend learning use avsynth and then using lanczoresize.

visit doom9.org

 

[Slammy1]

Originally posted by: rbV5

I'm somewhat a video enthusiast and am familiar with hardware and software topics having many posts/discussions of advanced topics both here and elsewhere. I'm also aware that long threads at AVS: never "everyone agree's", are mixed with plenty of BS, and fill with posters that think if they post more or in CAPS that they're more right...just like here.

To cut to the chase without going too in-depth, why not simply test ffdshow against Purevideo alone with the HQV DVD test? I'm not easily convinced by user feedback or manufacturer claims, nor reviewers.

I've got to tell you, DVD PQ using XP MCE with my X1800 based rigs on both my 720p LCD and 1080i CRT RPTV Displays using the ATI Cyberlink decoder is excellent. I can't believe that Purevideo hardware would be noticably worse currently. My own testing with building filter graphs in Graphedit doesn't show me to be worth the hassle for DVD playback vs just firing up MCE and enjoying the show, but for PQ, I might if it were noticably better...I'm just not so convinced that playing the software dance is really worth the effort any more.

You're right, at least as far as your system and usage. It is a lot of time tweaking and optimizing, and PQ is a subjective thing. I do notice that sometimes people will hold ffdshow as a religion (not to be questioned), and there are people in your camp on decoding with the newer cards (though I do hold it's definitely not a majority viewpoint by far). Resizing DVDs is not for the feint of heart, I've said that before, it's for enthusiasts who want the most that they can from their systems. For me it's a no-brainer comparing PQ, but you gotta respect that not everyone wants to spend hours optimizing. I've been doing it 2 years now, it's getting easier with detailed guides and better software, but still not straight forward by any stretch.

In the case of the thread originator, I'd try out a basic ffdshow set up, see if you can spot the difference on your display. If not then you don't have to worry about converting DVDs to HD cause it's the same process.

EDIT: Did you notice that in the testing comparison you're referencing that they didn't do the highest end STBs, more mid-high range models? Combine that with HD-DVD playback I really question the conclusion of the article. STBs still have some advantages over HTPC.

 

[PoopyPants]

its not a matter of learning its a matter of relearning as i was well versed in divx conversion bout 4 years ago, but since lost the need for it and thus have forgotten so much.

avsynth i used to use
the lanczoresize i have not.


this isnt a debate of can i or cant i or should i or shouldn't i..
its a matter what what can i use to do it.

this is my project i will do it whether it needs to be done or not and i will make the judgement in the end if it was worth it or not.


and i know exacly what an mkv file is.. i simply made a a statement saying i have and have seen a 720p mkv file a 45 min long file and it only came to 1.09gig.
it had room for improvement gut overall it was definately encoded in 720p format.

i'll play around with the tools you gents are mentioning and see what i can come up with

thanks for the suggestions guys.

and yes i'm still looking for a good upconverting dvd player that does 720p or 1080i PROPERLY!