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Controversial Movie Fitna by Geert Wilders' about the Quran released

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,726
2
81
Fitna

It is a 15min documentary that is not for the squeamish and if it does not make your blood boil you are probably not human. It is if nothing else a stark cold reminder why we are in the middle east, it also paints a dim view of Europe's future.

Note: I think the site is getting hammered so it maybe hard to view it right now
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
lol it starts with a picture of muhammad. I wonder how many virgins I'm already down on simply for loading this link.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Originally posted by: Socio
It is if nothing else a stark cold reminder why we are in the middle east,
Huh.....I didn't see the oil wells or refineries? :confused:

Commenting more on the demonetization of Islam that the film's producer is trying to stoke and the OP is promoting....

They are where Christians and Catholics were a few hundreds years ago but have the technological advancements to be able to do more damage at once and with the advent of media technologies, they are captured on film preaching this crap which was just as prevalent in the other religions without the video evidence.

Hopefully, they can get to the point where the radicals of Islam are looked upon just as the Fred Phelps of Christianity are. When that finally happens, we will all be better off.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,726
2
81
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Socio
It is if nothing else a stark cold reminder why we are in the middle east
Hopefully, they can get to the point where the radicals of Islam are looked upon just as the Fred Phelps of Christianity are. When that finally happens, we will all be better off.

Not going to happen, Muslims will not allow anyone even them selves to cast denunciations on Islam no matter how evil or perverted its followers make it.

Case in point:

Muslim group seeks fine for Dutch lawmaker, ban on anti-Quran film

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A Dutch judge is due on Friday to hear the petition of a Muslim group seeking an independent review of an anti-Quran film by lawmaker Geert Wilders to see whether it violates hate speech laws.

The petition, seen by The Associated Press Thursday at the Hague District Court, says the Dutch Islamic Federation ``believes the situation of Muslims in the Netherlands today is comparable with that of our Jewish fellow-citizens in the 1930s.''

The federation asked for a fine of euro50,000 ($79,000) per day if Wilders airs the film, and a euro5,000 ($7,900) fine for each future instance of an ``injuring remark.''
This is nothing more than the ?moderate Muslims seeking to protect evil in the name of Islam and oppress any who would dare to speak of it.

Note: Anyone interested better watch that film while you still can as it will likely get pulled over this.

 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
I just saw it at Live Leak and I have to say this is a pretty poor movie. Beyond releasing rhetoric that any idiot knows isn't sanctioned by the Quran ( Female Mutilation anyone?!?!?! Come on!) , it falls on fear mongering to create a poor picture. One of the titles it put up that I LOLed at was something along the lines of "Muslim Investment Fund" or "Halal Fund" - basically investing while trying to maintain Muslim practices (ie: not investing in alcohol companies, porn, etc) Do they realize how SILLY they appear when it comes to this. Do you realize there are "Christian funds", "Christian doctors" etc! Do a google if you care - hell go listen to Christian Radio and you'll hear the ads!

And then the most interesting part was ripping out Quranic quots. I went and I grabbed ONE....lets take a look at it. The one I took randomly was 47:4. I'm NOT trying to get "moderate" sources or anything...I'm just pulling out anything I see on the net.

http://www.al-islam.org/quran/ (second hit for "online Quran" using google)

Let us not even CONSIDER what comes before or after:
Shakir 47:4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
[Yusufali 47:4] Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
[Pickthal 47:4] Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 47:4]
Without using MUCH brains the first thing we see is that it is ALREADY a selective quote. They didn't quote the entire SURAH! And then we can see it isn't CLEARLY "ripping them apart and eating their babies". You hold your prisoners and release them either for free or ransom. For WAR - this is resonable. They never said to cut off the heads of prisoners - they said to release them when hostilities cease!

Now let us get to the commentary to get an idea of how this fits into the bigger pictures(and to avoid having to quote the other parts - although you can look at the before and after using that link)

This verse commands every believer to kill or be killed when he fights disbelievers. If slain the rewards from Allah are many. According to Baqarah: 154 and Ali Imran: 169 to 171 the martyrs are not dead, they are alive, getting sustenance from Allah, rejoicing in the grace and mercy of Allah; and Hajj: 58 and 59 say that they occupy the highest position near Allah. If the believer prevails over the enemies of Allah, he destroys the power base of evil, disorder and corruption.

Those who deserted the Holy Prophet in the battles of Uhad and Hunayn (see commentary of Bara-at: 25 to 27 and other references mentioned therein) and ran away to save their lives must be identified and condemned in view of this verse.

The ordinance to kill the disbelievers is applicable when they launch an attack on the believers, not when they have surrendered. Islam prescribes effective defence in the event of an unprovoked aggression. Refer to the commentary of Baqarah 190 to 193.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

When once the enemy is brought under control, the release of prisoners with or without ransom is recommended. The slaughter of captives was never allowed by Islam. How a believer deals with the captives is a test. Some take ransom, some let them go for the sake of Allah; and some take care of them, shelter them and feed them with no strings attached.
You know - if someone is going to attack me FIRST I SURE as HELL will fight back. PERIOD. ESPECIALLY if it is someone persecuting for my religion. This is only COMMON SENSE.

But notice how it says this is ONLY applicable (even referring to other instances in the Quran) if they are the UNPROVOKED aggressors.


Oh and by the way that was VERY insulting to me as an American and as a Muslim how they quote a verse and then show pictures of the WTC attack. That was SUCH poor taste and if anything I'm offended because they rip out quotes of context, of understanding and then slap on video to try to make an emotional appeal to a viewer because they lack that logical appeal.

There ARE real issues to tackle in Europe - some of those speakers are very hard to rationalize or defend even if they quotes were ripped out of context. Too bad the guy has to be an idiot and quote things that aren't sanctioned by the Quran (Female Mutiliation), make a big deal about things that do not even matter (Musims wanting to invest in a "halal"), selectively quote to the point that he doesn't get the entire SENTENCE...pathetic.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,552
734
126
I cant believe this could be taken as anything but spin. Islamic terrorists are NOT violent. Theyre simply misunderstood. If we would simply sit down with them and discuss our differences, they would be willing to meet us halfway and we could have peace at least.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: blackangst1
I cant believe this could be taken as anything but spin. Islamic terrorists are NOT violent. Theyre simply misunderstood. If we would simply sit down with them and discuss our differences, they would be willing to meet us halfway and we could have peace at least.
Or maybe you could read what I wrote and see that half of the content that Islamophobes complain about is bullshit and fabricated. When instances like honor killings exist , this is completely out of line with the Quran and is bad culture that needs to be dealt with.

Look at this video itself. He tries to focus on the QURAN to "remove and tear the violent pages" but the guy can't even quote the verses right. He HAS to purposely twist and spin to get the interpretation he wants.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,552
734
126
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: blackangst1
<sarcasm>I cant believe this could be taken as anything but spin. Islamic terrorists are NOT violent. Theyre simply misunderstood. If we would simply sit down with them and discuss our differences, they would be willing to meet us halfway and we could have peace at least.</sarcasm>
Or maybe you could read what I wrote and see that half of the content that Islamophobes complain about is bullshit and fabricated. When instances like honor killings exist , this is completely out of line with the Quran and is bad culture that needs to be dealt with.

Look at this video itself. He tries to focus on the QURAN to "remove and tear the violent pages" but the guy can't even quote the verses right. He HAS to purposely twist and spin to get the interpretation he wants.
Insert new battery sir. I fixed my post.
 

BradAtWork

Senior member
Sep 5, 2005
320
0
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
I cant believe this could be taken as anything but spin. Islamic terrorists are NOT violent. Theyre simply misunderstood. If we would simply sit down with them and discuss our differences, they would be willing to meet us halfway and we could have peace at least.
My sarcasm meter just exploded.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
Beyond releasing rhetoric that any idiot knows isn't sanctioned by the Quran
Bombers can find plenty in the koran to backup what they do. Don't deny that. You can find a lot of harsh things in the old testament as well. Thank God Christians aren't going around cutting people's heads off though to praise Jesus. At its literal core, Islam is intolerant of other religions and seeks to dominate others and convert them or kill and/or enslave those who do not convert. I don't find it very difficult to see how somebody who takes the thing at its word deep in their heart would go and kill a family having an afternoon at the beach. Should we be surprised? Muhammad their prophet was a bandit and brigand himself, so like prophet like zealot.

I agree this film was not spectacular. Didn't really teach me much that I didn't know, but some Muslims are moving to western nations and seeking to poison their new homes with bullsh*t they took from their motherland (which sucked for some reason enough to leave it), including desperate pleading with governments and whining about hate speech/religious intolerance.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,991
0
0
Originally posted by: BradAtWork
Originally posted by: blackangst1
I cant believe this could be taken as anything but spin. Islamic terrorists are NOT violent. Theyre simply misunderstood. If we would simply sit down with them and discuss our differences, they would be willing to meet us halfway and we could have peace at least.
My sarcasm meter just exploded.
Same here. blackangst1, I demand you provide a replacement and not a refurb!
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,435
79
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Muhammad their prophet was a bandit and brigand himself, so like prophet like zealot.
OMG they are gonna get you :p

 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Beyond releasing rhetoric that any idiot knows isn't sanctioned by the Quran
Bombers can find plenty in the koran to backup what they do. Don't deny that. You can find a lot of harsh things in the old testament as well. Thank God Christians aren't going around cutting people's heads off though to praise Jesus. At its literal core, Islam is intolerant of other religions and seeks to dominate others and convert them or kill and/or enslave those who do not convert. I don't find it very difficult to see how somebody who takes the thing at its word deep in their heart would go and kill a family having an afternoon at the beach. Should we be surprised? Muhammad their prophet was a bandit and brigand himself, so like prophet like zealot.

I agree this film was not spectacular. Didn't really teach me much that I didn't know, but some Muslims are moving to western nations and seeking to poison their new homes with bullsh*t they took from their motherland (which sucked for some reason enough to leave it), including desperate pleading with governments and whining about hate speech/religious intolerance.
If they want to Cherry pick and twist the texts much like this movie did, sure!

I would say at its LITERAL core, Islam is NOT intolerant in the way you imagine. At its literal core, ISLAM believes it follow the true monotheistic tradition and that other religions are corrupted(Again This is talking about something at the core while ignoring everything else that makes it up). I can't claim to know any detail of the old testament, so I won't take that claim because I have no idea if it is being pulled out of context either. I'll leave it to Christians or Jews to discuss that

You will have one hell of a time (unless, again, you twist and ignore passages) proving that the Quran is out to enslave and or kill those who do not convert. Passages CONSTANTLY emphasize that war is defense, passages CONSTANTLY emphasize to show mercy to the enemy is they cease attack, passages CONSTANTLY emphasize that God does not love Aggressors.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,583
431
126
The Koran doesn't preach violence as a method of attaining followers, but it certainly does recount a large number of battles valiantly won by the Muslim army. Too often the latter is confused to mean the former. To do so is ignorant. Unfortunately, supposed adherents to the religion and critics to the religion alike like to play hard and fast with this plain fact to further their political agenda.

P.S. I wholeheartedly support this dude's right to film and distribute this video, though it is completely inaccurate. Suck it up crybabies, not everyone has to adore your religion.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,497
1
81
Every Islam is evil thread I read reinforces my certainty of the importance of living in a secular state that maintains a strong separation of Church and State. If you give any religion political power it starts insisting that everyone follow their rules.

You can practice any religion you want just keep it to yourself.

 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: yllus
The Koran doesn't preach violence as a method of attaining followers, but it certainly does recount a large number of battles valiantly won by the Muslim army. Too often the latter is confused to mean the former. To do so is ignorant. Unfortunately, supposed adherents to the religion and critics to the religion alike like to play hard and fast with this plain fact to further their political agenda.

P.S. I wholeheartedly support this dude's right to film and distribute this video, though it is completely inaccurate. Suck it up crybabies, not everyone has to adore your religion.




:thumbsup: I agree too, and I applaud those Muslims who protested at this movie, who condemned violence to achieve those goals.
 

Skyclad1uhm1

Lifer
Aug 10, 2001
11,384
87
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
lol it starts with a picture of muhammad. I wonder how many virgins I'm already down on simply for loading this link.
The cartoonist who made the picture shown (and was threatened for it) was not asked whether Wilders could use it, and doesn't like him using it without asking first. He has already announced he will take legal action against Wilders for it.

The translations used are extremely inaccurate, several news agencies have pointed this out.

The photo he shows when talking about the murder of Theo van Gogh is NOT that of the killer, but instead a picture he probably Googled, and it's from a Moroccan-Dutch rapper who has also filed a complaint against the use of his photo in there.

So in short: Wrong translations as 'proof' of how bad the Quran is, lots of images from wellknown terrorist attacks performed by a few thousand extremists at most, instead of the 1.5 billion Muslims he wants you to believe (why else would he want to forbid the Quran, close all Mosques, and other stuff he has said before), and two lawsuits of which one by a person whom Wilders assumed would support him.

Guess he should go back to what he's good at, namely translating 'Volk und Rasse' from Mein Kampf and replacing Jew with Muslim.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,172
3,219
126
It seems the "controversial" part is more about the blatant inaccuracies rather than the accuracies. IOWs, completely useless to any constructive purpose.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,387
140
116
Was this put together by middle-school students? It's laughably bad and horribly untrue.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,172
3,219
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Was this put together by middle-school students? It's laughably bad and horribly untrue.
It's a pile of BS propaganda equally as bad as anything Al Queda and similar Extremist Muslim groups put out. It has no other purpose than to misinform and just create a Western version of the same Extremism.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,843
46
91


I'm bored of explaining of how the cookie crumbles, again and again.

Here is a little clue, let the wise work it out : The problem with Islam is NOT the violent passages in the Quran. The problem with Islam is NOT the terrorists.
 

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