Controversial Confederate Flag Moved in S. Carolina

[Josh]

South Carolina lowered the Confederate flag, widely considered a symbol of racism against blacks in the United States, from its Capitol dome on Saturday amid a chorus of protests. At a midday ceremony, state officials lowered the flag from the Statehouse. They then raised a Confederate battle flag on a 30-foot (nine-meter) pole at the Confederate Soldier Monument directly in front of the Capitol.

Controversy over the Civil War-era flag flying on the Capitol dome, which sparked a tourism boycott of the state by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, led to the compromise solution carried out on Saturday.
In a sometimes tense atmosphere, some 1,000 protesters massed at the Capitol on Saturday to denounce the action because it left a Confederate flag still flying on Statehouse grounds. The NAACP earlier held a silent protest march. Some 500 flag supporters also gathered, mourning the transfer of a flag they see as a symbol of the deaths of their ancestors in the Civil War.

At Saturday's ceremony, the two groups shouted at each other and appeared close to throwing blows. One person was arrested for simple assault. Flag opponents blew whistles and held signs reading ''Shame.'' Some supporters waved Confederate flags and yelled ''Don't give up the fight'' and ``White power.''

Participants dressed in white and marched in front of the Capitol, where they paused for a minute with their backs to the monument and the flag. Flag supporters held a ``Million Rebel March'' -- really a rally -- after the ceremonies. They unfurled an enormous battle flag on the Capitol steps, sang Confederate songs and gave speeches.

``Just like a funeral -- the more people's here, the more you feel you've really proved your point,'' said Auby Hilley of Calhoun Falls, who wanted the flag to stay on the dome. The recent controversy, which dominated this year's legislative session and thrust the state into the national spotlight, started after the NAACP announced its boycott of the state's tourism industry last summer.

The flag was first raised on the South Carolina Statehouse in 1962 as a commemoration of the Civil War and flew beneath the U.S. and South Carolina flags. State lawmakers debated taking the Confederate flag down for years before agreeing on the compromise in May. Inside the Capitol on Saturday, the flag was taken down by two cadets from The Citadel military academy. Gov. Jim Hodges, a Democrat, accepted the flag and passed it on to the State Museum for display. He did not speak at the ceremony, but he said on Friday that the compromise was good despite objections on both sides.

Outside, a troop of a dozen Confederate reenactors marched a square battle flag with a white border to the flag pole at the soldier monument and raised it as the crowd burst into a mixture of cheers and boos. The new flag is more historically accurate because it replicates the Confederate flag actually carried in battle. Confederate flags inside the House and Senate chambers were also quietly taken down before Saturday's ceremony.

People on both sides of the debate said the compromise carried out on Saturday was not the end of the controversy.``We've got to prepare ourselves for the next assault,'' said flag supporter John J. Krausse of Heritage Town, Maryland, referring to attempts to keep the flag from flying at the monument. But those gathered to protest the flag still flying on the Statehouse grounds were also angry.

``Your people have divided this state forever,'' Darion McCloud, a black man from Columbia, yelled at a white man in a small altercation broken up by police.



What do you guys feel about this??

 

[Viper GTS]

It's just a friggin' flag. Flying it does not mean that the state condones racial discrimination, they're merely acknowledging their history. History can't be changed, so deal with it.

Viper GTS

 

[Mday]

i tend to think of the flag as southern pride. but then i live in NYC and am not black. so southern blacks may have gripes against its existence. and they have a right to not have that shoved in their face since it is a government structure.

the civil war was not only about slavery... but it was a big chunk of it. i tend to consider white sheets more inflammatory than the confederate flag. and we can't forget about the hood.

 

[PCAddict]

As a non-racist white boy from PA, I feel that the Confederate flag is not a symbol of racism, oppression, or anything like that.

It is a part of the history of the southern states. I don't have a problem with it being displayed. I do take offense with its use by organizations such as the KKK.

 

[BillyD]

<< i tend to think of the flag as southern pride. >>


Well don't, the Confederate flag in no way should be considered southern pride. I'm from Texas, which is a southern state, not to be confused with southern as in hick, racist, or slack-jawed yokel I definately don't see it as any southern pride, but that's because I have pride only in my country, not just in one part.

Removing it from the Statehouse to the Confederate monument is ok, what do you expect at the monument? It didn't really work out for both sides, anyways.

I think the two sides that were fighting today over the flag saw it in extreme ways. One side saw it as white power, and the other saw it as a symbol of racism and hate. I, personally, see it as a symbol of America's past, and pretty much nothing more

 

[Ulfwald]

The Cival War was fought mainly over States rights. The Confederate battle flag, which once was flown with pride by the confederacy in protest over the abuse of power by the Federal Government, has been demonized by ill educated race baiters on both sides. the KKK uses it as a sign of so called &quot;White Supremacy&quot; while the african american culture says it is a sign of Slavery.

It is neither, it's true meaning is that of the right of the states to govern themselves except in the matters of national and constitutional law. The Federal Government has become the most powerful entity in the nation, and has quite overstepped its boundries.

The flag is not evil, it is the ill educated views of a select few that demonize it.

This comment is brought to you by a NON RACIST southern male from the state of Alabama.

BTW, the term redneck used to refer to those who earned a living by feeding this nation as farmers.

 

[bulldawg]

ulfwald


Well said. As a non-racist white boy from GA, I agree with you.

 

[apoppin]

I realize my views here will not be popular. However, I do think the removal of the Confederate flag from South Carolina's Capitol Dome was the right move although rather belated. A flag is a symbol, it is far more than history. If it was history it should have gone into a museum long ago (as it finally did move to the Confederate Soldier Monument).

This flag symbolized the dead Confederacy and what it stood for including the right to own people. A big part of the civil war was to determine the southern states rights to continue black slavery,

Many white people who proclaim, &quot;I am NOT racist,&quot; in fact ARE. They may not agree with keeping slaves but somehow feel their race is superior. They tend to justify past slavery by saying not only the whites were at fault. They simply do not understand why blacks are not willing to forgive and forget. They think, &quot;well you're equal now.&quot; They don't realize that minorities are still second-class citizens. It is an attitude that minorities hate.

That Confederate flag finally coming down is a step in the right direction. The Confederate flag a proud symbol of the abuse of power by the Federal Government? That is pure BS. The Federal Government stepped in to stop abuse of Human Rights by the racist southern states. History has already judged this issue.

 

[KDOG]

I agree that the whole flag issue is silly, but it doesn't help the &quot;historical flag supporters&quot; view when you have a bunch of dumb hicks waving the very same flag around yelling White Power and the such. The Klan flies that flag. As other racist organizations do.

I don't think moving it or taking it down will get black people what they want though, cause now your gonna see that flag EVERYWHERE down there now!!!

 

[Mill]

Uh... Slavery was not even why Lincoln declared war. Historians and his early speeches paint a different picture than Slavery. Lincoln was not going to free the slaves. In fact he issued the Emanc. Proc. so that the blacks would cause disturbances in the South, and also maybe to bolster the Union. It was a war about State's rights and the Constitution.

 

[apoppin]

It was a war fought for complex issues including states's rights and economic issues. Part of the economic reasons was the South 'needed' slaves for their more agriculturally based economy. Slavery was already outlawed in the Northern states.

 

[bulldawg]

apoppin:




<< That Confederate flag finally coming down is a step in the right direction. >>



Yes, it was the &quot;right&quot; thing to do, but can you tell me if anybody is really better off with the flag down? Have poor or hungry people been helped?



<< Many white people who proclaim, &quot;I am NOT racist,&quot; in fact ARE. >>



Applies to both races, I think.




<< They don't realize that minorities are still second-class citizens. >>




Says who?

 

[apoppin]

Bulldawg, flying the flag on the state capitol is a symbol of the state's condoning also the evils of the Confederacy. By taking it down in response to the protests is a good positive sign. Leaving it up would have signaled no change. As I said it is a step in the right direction - a gesture.

Agreed.

I am not sure what you are saying - minorities are not second class citizens or whites don't realize they actually are.

 

[Daedalus]

apoppin

<<This flag symbolized the dead Confederacy and what it stood for including the right to own people. A big part of the civil war was to determine the southern states rights to continue black slavery,>>

I never bought into that argument. How ironic that the Confederacy's General Lee, not a slave owner, surrendered to the Union's General Grant, a slave owner.

Union States still had slavery by the way.

 

[apoppin]

I never bought into that argument.

Obviously we have differing views of history.

 

[Psychoholic]

<< This flag symbolized the dead Confederacy and what it stood for including the right to own people. A big part of the civil war was to determine the southern states rights to continue black slavery >>



The civil war was never about the rights of slaves. As Daedalus pointed out, many in the north were slave owners. The real reason Lincoln freed the slaves was to hurt the southern economy. He wasn't thinking about the moral aspects.

 

[Josh]

In all honesty, I believe if the flag really hurts a majority of the people it should either be removed or changed to look more &quot;appealing&quot;

 

[bulldawg]

apoppin:


What I was asking is why do you say minorities are second class citizens?

 

[apoppin]

Minorities are treated as second-class citizens. This is well documented. Compare income, schooling, prison population percentages, etc, etc. Where have you been?

Now as to causes of the Civil war check out this excellent link:

http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html

First of all the nation was deeply divided on slavery. The North kept no slaves in comparison to the South where nearly 1/3 of all Southern families kept slaves (in South Carolina and Mississippi nearly 1/2 of all families owned slaves). In the border states, the states that did not secede, less than 16% held slaves. The South claimed it needed slavery to keep it's economy going. The North was more enlightened (and also more industrialized).

Slavery was PROFITABLE in the South. I'm sorry, but history is on my side. The war may not have been about the rights of slaves - it was about the rights of the 11 states who chose to secede from the Union. Why did they chose this action of anarchy? - to keep their status quo including slavery.

At this time the people in the Northern states were actively helping slaves to escape. There were court cases about returning &quot;propery&quot; back to their owners and the general attitute of the North was disgust at the slavery in the South.

 

[Ferocious]

The flag went up in the early 1960's (I think 1962). No doubt as a subtle protest to the civil rights movement.

Why didn't they want to celebrate their &quot;heritage&quot; before the early '60s?

 

[Psychoholic]

Yes the north was more industrialized and had fewer slaves than the south, but saying none in comparision to the south is streching it a little far.

Where do you get your history lessons? A history book or an AOL members web page?

BTW that's an dead link.



<< Why didn't they want to celebrate their &quot;heritage&quot; before the early '60s? >>


If I remember correctly it was the 100 year anniversery of the south declaring their independance.

 

[apoppin]

Except for the border states, the North didn't have slavery.

I get my history from reliable sources. Try the link again - my typo, corrected very quickly - and notice the awards and links for the site.

It sounds like you make up your own history to suit yourself. Like the many people that say the Holocost was invented by Jews to get sympathy

 

[IronMike]

Any symbol that is offensive to a large segment of the population, should be removed from public property, period.

 

[403Forbidden]

They should remove that damn flag from every government buidling.

1.
It doesn't matter what the true origins of the flag were. There is no questions that it is a symbol as all flags are. Symbols are as elastic as words/slang. Thus, regardless of what the flag was originally intended to mean, it now represents (at least in part) the period of Southern Slavery. Example: do you find it acceptable to use the word &quot;i love you&quot; in your professional vocabulary with the excuse that it &quot;originally&quot; meant a peice of wood? Or what about the term &quot;b!tch&quot;?

2.
The flag also represents hostility towards the Nation as a whole. Having State pride is one thing. That's what individual state flags are for. But the confederate flag doesn't represent State pride, rather it represents hosiltity towards the North and the nation as a whole. As a nation, we can't have government sponsored hostility towards itself.

 

[chess9]

I've been to quite a few of the Civil War battlefield sites. Looking down at the graves of thousands upon thousands of young men-most just a bit older than Paulson-one can only feel a profound sadness. The Civil War was the worst page in American history, if not for the large number of dead and wounded, then for the reasons for the conflict. Although many small Southern farmers benefitted from slave ownership, the politically powerful ruling elite in the Southern states were mostly large land owners for whom the loss of the use of almost free labor would have been inconvenient. The irony of all this is that the poor white Southerners, who are often the ones now supporting the Confederate flag, were the people who fought and died for a cause that would have given them little. One only need look at the many civil wars around the world to realize that those who march in front have little to gain and usually lose everything. Such wars are most often fought for the purpose of supporting the politically powerful or protecting their vested interests. Ultimately, the Civil War pitted the Southern aristocracy against its own poor people and the more industrialized North. No one &quot;won&quot; the Civil War. But many young men died for no good reason. I feel this can be said of many wars, including the Viet Nam War.

I think we need to remember the Civil War and understand fully the price paid. In that regard, perhaps the flag is a not so subtle reminder of our national stupidity and the avarice of man.