Continuing Saga of XP MCE 2005: memory allocation

[BonzaiDuck]

In an earlier thread, I explained a confusion that commonly arises when doing a clean install of XP MCE 2005. The Media Center parts of the program that are supposed to recognize and access a TV-tuner-capture-card were not installed properly.

My friend and network-admin who lives in New Mexico came back with e-mail -- very short one -- suggesting that I just get it over with and do the clean re-install.

So -- THAT problem is FIXED.

Now, here I am, all happy, warm and fuzzy about how well the infrared remote works, how well XP MCE manages "TV Guide" and other features. All the event-viewer logs are in the "Blue" again.

So I started installing some new software, and I when transferring e-mail files to a new version of Outlook (2007), the process stops with a message about insufficient system resources and memory. (Hadn't seen this since half-decade ago when I installed memory-intensive software on a system with 512 MB RAM).

I discover that the "ehrecvr.exe" program, that manages the TV receiver, hogs an entire gigabyte of system RAM whether you're watching TV or not, whether Media Center is actively running or not. My system at this point only has about 400-plus MB of "available" memory.

Scouring the web all over the place, I find that you can disable the ehrecvr in memory or change it from "Automatic" to "Manual" startup. But once you make it "manual," when accessing MC, it runs ehrecvr.exe and upon exit from MC -- leaves it in running.

Further investigation shows that there is an "optimization" feature that can be scheduled in Media Center, and I intuitively suspected this would mitigate the memory problem.

It DID. So now I've got 700-plus MB of "available" RAM, but that's still not enough for me.

Is there some way to trim back ehrecvr's memory allocation further in the registry?

Third-party software like SageTV and BeyondTV seem to manage this so much better. Micro-Sucks seems too eager to hog all the expanded memory of new systems once a user feels a sense of Lebensraum-relief for the additional RAM.

 

[Nothinman]

Is there some way to trim back ehrecvr's memory allocation further in the registry?

Doubtful. Your best bet is probably to just manually stop the service when you're done with it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I appreciate your response.

Your own conclusion was something I hoped I could avoid. Certainly, it makes sense, though.

I just think it's disgusting how they built this much-touted version of XP Pro. The Tuner-Capture-viewing software that comes with either a Hauppauge card or my AverMedia card uses a tiny bit of memory. SageTV and BeyondTV both use a tiny bit of memory, and they provide "TV Guide" services which are every bit as good as those in Media Center.

This would make anyone think twice again about an upgrade path or migration to Vista unless Vista manages these sorts of features better.

I was hoping to find some parameter that limits memory usage to ehrecvr.exe on its properties page, but so far, scouring the web, I haven't found any. There may be something at MSDN's website, but I haven't found that either.

I have another dual-channel 1GB (2x512) Crucial Ballistix DDR2-1000 memory kit arriving midweek. That will bring it to 3 GB. I'd hoped to avoid using all the memory slots, but it appears as though it's unavoidable. I'll have to implement "4GT" tuning in the boot.ini file. This also means more hardware testing and a reevaluation of my over-clock settings.

At this point, I don't know who I want to strangle more: the oil-tycoons at Halliburton and KBR who got us into this war, or Bill Gates.

 

[Nothinman]

I just think it's disgusting how they built this much-touted version of XP Pro.

While I don't totally disagree, I find it extremely strange that you can't import email into Outlook with "only" 400M of memory free.

I was hoping to find some parameter that limits memory usage to ehrecvr.exe on its properties page, but so far, scouring the web, I haven't found any. There may be something at MSDN's website, but I haven't found that either.

That's not the way VM works, although most unix systems allow the limiting of VM to any process via ulimit, and even if it was possible you'd probably just see the process crash when it hit the limit anyway.

I'll have to implement "4GT" tuning in the boot.ini file. This also means more hardware testing and a reevaluation of my over-clock settings.

No, you won't.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

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"No, you won't."
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I can go back and review the tables for XP memory address range. Somewhere I thought I saw that one had to implement this boot.ini parameter, but maybe I was wrong.

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"That's not the way VM works, although most unix systems allow the limiting of VM to any process via ulimit, and even if it was possible you'd probably just see the process crash when it hit the limit anyway. "
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I think there's a "MAXMEM" boot.ini parameter as well, which limits the OS's use of physical memory. And I'm wondering if this restrains ehrecvr.exe to work within that limit, or if it treats Media Center programs as "regular applications."

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"While I don't totally disagree, I find it extremely strange that you can't import email into Outlook with "only" 400M of memory free. "
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I had acquired Office Professional 2007 [home and academic three-user] which included a "business contact manager plug-in" for Outlook 2007. This requires, in addition, several SQL-Server client and DBMS components to be installed. I don't really need that feature, though, but was ambitious enough to desire a chance to play with it.

My e-mail imports from Outlook 2003 include e-mail folders which date back some five or six years -- the Outlook.pst file is about 1.5 GB in size. But you figure that the import wouldn't need to load that file into memory in its entirety. And -- for all I know -- there may be bugs in Outlook 2007 or especially, in the plug-in component.

I just cannot understand, though, why MS would build the Media Center "ehrecvr.exe" component to hog that much memory. It would've arisen from an assumption that the computer would be dedicated solely for "media center" use. SageTV 4.x, on the older system with XP Pro, uses something like 4 MB, and BeyondTV is not much different. So even for machines dedicated to the home entertainment center, why gobble up all the memory if the Media Center extension would potentially only need less than 10 MB?

If I can integrate Sage TV or Beyond TV into the Media Center shell as with a few other "media-center-type" applications, then disabling ehrecvr.exe permanently wouldn't represent much of a loss to me. Actually -- it would be no loss at all -- and a gain as far as memory usage is concerned.

OF course, those applications would need to be functional with the USB infrared remote control, but I've seen some encouraging signs that they probably are. Roxio's "Digital Media Experience" component works with it.

 

[Nothinman]

I can go back and review the tables for XP memory address range. Somewhere I thought I saw that one had to implement this boot.ini parameter, but maybe I was wrong.

You were, the number of cases where /3GB switch in your boot.ini is a good idea is extremely small.

I think there's a "MAXMEM" boot.ini parameter as well, which limits the OS's use of physical memory. And I'm wondering if this restrains ehrecvr.exe to work within that limit, or if it treats Media Center programs as "regular applications."

I believe that restricts how much memory the OS sees/makes available not how much it uses.

 

[dawks]

ehrecvr.exe hosts the MPEG2 encoder used to encode/decode the bits comming off of your TV tuner. This will usually be the latest DVD player you installed (WinDVD, PowerDVD...). I would recommend PowerDVD or better yet (at least in my experience) nVidias PureVideo Decoder (been running it on my XP MCE setup for a year).

I've seen a few times where ehrecvr.exe would screw up and peg my CPU at 100%, and the only way out of it was cutting the power (since I couldn't even use the mouse, the process was sucking so many resources). Other then that, it rarely goes about 80megs even when recording/streaming live TV.

I would check TV tuner drivers, video card drivers, and MPEG2 encoder software.

As I've said many times before, Windows XP SP2 is VERY stable, the majority of the problems with it are hardware or third party software/driver related. MCE works well for me.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I thought such may have been the possibility, and I'll keep it in mind.

If one sets the "ehrecvr.exe" service to "Manual" and "stopped", the system boots so that at least 1.5 Gb of my memory is "available." Once you start Media Center and access MyTV, the service is activated and grabs the memory as I described. But closing Media Center leaves it running, so it needs to be "stopped" through the Comp Management->Services window. P I T A.

I sent MS an e-mail toward their fixing this silliness in their Q1 '08 Service Pack 3 release -- what I've heard rumored. I don't know how Vista improves on it, but it seems they've made an asinine assumption that their OS will be used on a system totally dedicated 24/7 to the "entertainment center," so like I said, if SageTV provides the same functionality without grabbing more than 5 to 10MB of physical memory, this is very shabby program-design from a company that has brought us Excel and Word and other more "robust" applications.

Also, It is totally ridiculous that they've made it impossible to integrate other media-focused programs into their shell. Apparently, software-makers from Intervideo, Creative and a few others have built plug-ins to Media Center through use of some SDK or API for Media Center. But I don't see why they don't have some drag-and-drop feature that allows you to add other "media-savvy" programs. Maybe it's because they have a standard for "integrability" -- I can't be sure.

I should go forward and install SageTV to see if Media Center recognizes it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Dawks --

It's very stable, and the Live TV works fine. I don't have a CPU usage problem as you described, or as I've seen on some forums. But ehrecvr is grabbing a lot more memory for itself than any TV viewing or scheduling software needs.

I have several decoders installed, but the "preferred" MCE compatible decoder is the AverMedia for Aver's TV-tuner-card. The other decoders needed to be installed so I could play videos captured under Roxio and other software. I also have the Intervideo decoder for MCE.

If you have time, check the memory usage of ehrecvr in comparison to total physical memory in your own MCE implementation. I'd be interested in seeing how much ehrecvr is using in yours. If yours and mine are behaving differently, then there's something else that's causing it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

ok Dawks -- I see you say "80 meg."

Looks like I need to do some troubleshooting here.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Dawks --

I don't regret it, but I bought the Gold version of the PureVideo decoder package, and while it works fine with every feature of the Media Center, I still have ehrecvr hogging the memory at 1,082,000 KB.

I'm trying to recall how my installation of XP MCE went forward. It seemed to go without a hitch, and I'd reformated the RAID5 and started from scratch. No error messages or warnings, and all the Event Viewer logs are in the "blue."

I could attempt to reinstall the Tuner card's driver. Reinstalling it was AverMedia's suggestion to my support request, after I described the earlier problem of the Media Center failure to recognize the tuner. THAT problem was due to the confusion that many other MCE OEM purchasers had when the installation prompts to "insert Service Pack 2" disk, when it really means "INsert Installation disk #1."

 

[dawks]

The only other possibility I would suggest is Tuner and/or video card drivers. I had issues with ATI drivers 7.1-7.3 where hardware acceleration and deinterlacing were off when in MCE. It was very annoying. Tried everything. Only fix was to revert back, but then they fixed it in 7.4.

Anyway, I just looked at my ehrecvr.exe and according to taskmanger its currently using 2.7megs 'mem' and 2.5megs 'vm'. This computer has 1.5gigs of RAM. Performance tab says I have 1gig free. and PF usage is 650megs. I should note, MCE recorded 4-5 shows over the weekend and has not be rebooted since. I think I even watched a few hours worth of TV since the last reboot (+days ago). Good luck!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Dawks!!

You be a Dawggg, Dawks!! I owes you!!

I always thought I had a knack for troubleshooting software and hardware, but if it weren't for you, I wouldn't have resolved this!!

It proves that clear thinking about the programs, services and drivers is the best path for troubleshooting the problem.

I uninstalled all the AverMedia software. Keep in mind that I DID go forth and take your advice about the nVidia PureVideo Decoder, but that wasn't the problem. And obviously, determining just that leads down the right path by process of elimination.

After uninstalling all Avermedia drivers and the AV6 program, I rebooted, ran my System Mechanic diagnostics and repair tool, compacted the registry and got rid of a bunch of registry errors and bad shortcuts, and rebooted again.

Media Center apparently doesn't save all the Guide and configuration data, and I had to run the "Settings" setup to the TV signal and guide again. All this time, I'm watching Task manager. Of course, I knew that proof of the pudding was the sequence of selecting LiveTV and raising up ehrecvr.exe.

Watching CSPAN at the moment, the amount of available memory is 1,448,000+ kilobytes. Haven't even checked processes, but that means that Media Center and ehrecvr.exe aren't hardly making a dent in memory consumption.

Thanks again!!!
PS ehrecvr.exe is currently using only 28,500K of RAM. In-freakin-credible.

 

[Markbnj]

As a side note, from the two experiences I have had, Business Contact Manager is a pig. I'm not sure what features it offers over the contact management in Outlook, but I bet they aren't worth it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My guess, having been a "database admin, design and programming expert" [and I'm freakin' rusty now] is that it's a contact management database turned into an Outlook plug-in.

Contact management D-Bases and applications were always featured in the texts I used to teach my students when I was doing my academic thing. I must have about four or five ORACLE texts on my shelf somewhere that feature it as an example project.

I HAVE A QUESTION -- I'LL POST IT HERE FOR THE TIME BEING FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO have been looking at this thread, and if there isn't a response, I'll use it to start another thread to make more attention.

To recap, my strategy in "building computers" proceeds from hardware and hw testing, but the OS has to be installed first. That's how I deferred testing Media Center until now (or three freakin' days ago . . ). Software installation -- test and make sure the registry and event-logs are all copacetic. THEN, SET IT UP THE WAY YOU WANT IT.

I capture movies, burning some to DVD, others stored on the network here so I can play them at will as MPEG files.

So I was testing Media Center, picked the Turner Classic Movie Channel, discovered they were going to start playing the Sinatra-Martin-McLean film based on James Jones novel -- "Some Come Running." So I decided to effortlessly test the recording feature, and was very pleased that the recording is now accessible from Media Center.

BUT -- I DON'T JUST WANT IT ACCESSIBLE FROM MEDIA CENTER, and I want to convert it to MPEG format if it isn't already. Now I cannot find out where Windows Media Center stores it.

WHERE DOES MEDIA CENTER STORE RECORDED PROGRAMS?!! Are they even accessible through Windows Explorer? It occurs to me that a drawback of VISTA is the WDRM features, and that Media Center would have them, so I might be stuck with my computer acting as a TIVO and unable to do anything further with the film -- that I might be able to delete it only by removing it through Media Center, and that I wouldn't be able to edit it and spit it out as a DVD.

Tell me whatcha know about this. It's not a problem, but I need to know what I can expect from Microsoft in this Media Center and its features or limitations. From now on, if I need to capture anything, I can do it with Roxio or SageTV -- or maybe even the TV software that came with the tuner-capture card. I could probably even do it with Intervideo software, but I've had audio problems with those suites on this system that aren't a problem with Roxio. And it'll just be more of a pain to schedule recordings for later manipulation.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, I answered my own question about possible WDRM limitations to Media Center.

You can capture live TV. I cannot find the files it creates, though. It is an effortless process of selecting from the TV Guide and forgetting about it.

And you can also burn a DVD from the recording using a Media Center Plug-in compliments of Sonic, and the DVD will play under Win Media Player 11.

That's good enough. Good enough.

[So why should I spring for VISTA now?]

 

[stash]

Recorded shows are stored in the Public profile, under Recorded TV.