Contesting a stop sign ticket from a pseudo quasi-local government agency ....

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Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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That looks like a Miata to me, and it looks like you stopped past the line. If you were pulling out after stopping then your foot probably wouldn't have been on the brake. Anyway, pay it and move on is my advice.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,206
12,521
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What happens if you ignore the ticket? In lots of places, quasi-government agencies are responsible for enforcing local traffic laws, (park rangers, etc.) and their traffic tickets carry the full weight of the law.

You should check carefully before you act. (or don't act)

Looks like you're fucked:

http://www.mrca.ca.gov/MRCA Ordinance 2012.pdf

The Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority employs park
rangers who are peace officers pursuant to Penal Code § 830.31(b) to protect the parks
and other property of the Authority and preserve the peace therein. Authority rangers
may, in addition to enforcing state law, local ordinances, this Ordinance, and conditions
of use on parkland, may also enforce Public Resources Code §§ 33211.5 and 33211.6
for properties owned or subject to the management of the Santa Monica Mountains
Conservancy pursuant to reciprocal management agreement(s) with the Santa Monica
Mountains Conservancy. The Authority also employs uniformed public officers pursuant to
Public Resources § 5786.17(c)) who are authorized to enforce the provisions of this
Ordinance on lands owned or managed by the Authority.

§ 4.3. Automated motor vehicle enforcement. (a) &#8220;Automated motor vehicle enforcement&#8221;
is any photographic or video equipment linked to any violation detection system that
synchronizes the taking of a photograph, video, or digital image with the occurrence of a
violation of §4.0.
(b) &#8220;Currently registered vehicle owner&#8221; is the person identified by motor vehicle
registration as the registered owner of the vehicle.
(c) &#8220;Citation&#8221; is the administrative citation and shall include the following:
(1) The name and address of the currently registered owner of the vehicle;
(2) The registration plate number of the motor vehicle involved in the violation;
(3) The violation charged;
(4) The time and location of the violation;
(5) The amount of the administrative penalty imposed and the date by which
the administrative penalty should be paid, and
(6) A sworn statement signed by the officer or employee of the Authority that
based on inspection of the recorded images, the subject motor vehicle was
being operated in violation of § 4.0.

§ 4.3.1. Automated motor vehicle enforcement citation procedure. Prior to issuance of a
citation for violation of § 4.0, a park ranger shall examine the photographic or video
equipment recordings authorized under this Ordinance to determine whether an offense
has occurred. If the park ranger determines that an offense has occurred and the license
plate number or other source of identification of the ownership of the offending vehicle
can be established, the ranger may issue an administrative citation to the registered
owner, and any other liable party pursuant to § 4.2, within thirty (30) calendar days of the
offense. Pursuant to § 4.2, if the registered owner satisfactorily proves to the hearing
officer that he or she is not liable, the Authority may reissue the citation to any party who
may be jointly liable under this Ordinance. The reissued citation shall be mailed to
remaining liable parties no later than thirty (30) calendar days from the date of the
administrative order of the hearing officer.

§ 4.3.2. Administrative appeal of automated motor vehicle citation. (a) At an
administrative hearing regarding any automated motor vehicle citation, a copy of the
citation alleging the violation along with a copy of the image that served as a basis of the
citation shall be prima facie evidence of the facts contained therein and shall be
admissible in a proceeding alleging a violation under this section.
(b) If a prima facie case has been established, the hearing officer may consider
any and all legal and factual defenses, including, but not limited to the following:
(1) That the automated motor vehicle enforcement system was not operating
properly at the time of the offense;
(2) That the license plate number or other source of identification of the vehicle
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cannot be determined;
(3) That the motor vehicle or registration plates of the motor vehicle were stolen
before the violation occurred;
(4) That the vehicle was operated without the consent of the registered vehicle
owner pursuant to § 4.2(a);
(5) The lawfulness of this Ordinance, and
(6) That other extenuating circumstances were present during the incident
which, in the interest of justice, requires dismissal.

§ 4.4. Dismissal of citation. In the interest of justice, the Authority staff counsel or other
attorney representing the Authority may, at any point after the issuance an administrative
order under this Ordinance, cause the underlying citation to be vacated and dismiss all
pending enforcement actions. The Authority shall provide written notice of dismissal to
any person in receipt of a citation. Within sixty (60) days of the date of dismissal, the
Authority shall process a refund of any advance deposit made by citation recipient.

§ 5.1. Traffic control violations. (a) Any violation of § 4.0 shall be punishable as infraction
and is subject to penalties pursuant to § 5.0(b).
(b) Imposition of liability for violation of § 4.0 by automated motor vehicle
enforcement shall not be considered a violation under the California Vehicle Code, shall
not be deemed a conviction as an operator, and shall not be made part of the operating
record upon whom such liability is imposed. No points authorized by the California
Vehicle Code (&#8220;Point System for License Suspension&#8221;) shall be assigned to the owner or
driver of the vehicle for violation of § 4.0 enforced by means of automated motor vehicle
enforcement. The fine for any violation of the § 4.0 enforced by automated motor vehicle
enforcement shall not exceed one hundred dollars ($100).

§ 5.2. Parking violation fines. (a) Violation of any parking sign as provided in § 4.1(a) of
this Ordinance shall be subject to an administrative or civil penalty of not more than
seventy dollars ($70).
(b) Any violation of §§ 4.1(b) or 4.1(c) of this Ordinance shall be subject to an
administrative or civil penalty of not more than eighty eight dollars ($88).
 
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TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
That looks like a Miata to me, and it looks like you stopped past the line. If you were pulling out after stopping then your foot probably wouldn't have been on the brake. Anyway, pay it and move on is my advice.

This, HOWEVER... Not really true. You can pull away from the line and still have your brake pedal pressed.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,981
8,219
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That looks like a Miata to me, and it looks like you stopped past the line. If you were pulling out after stopping then your foot probably wouldn't have been on the brake. Anyway, pay it and move on is my advice.

Why do you say the brakes are on? Cyclops brake lights have been law(I think) for awhile now, and I don't see one in that pic.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
What happens if you ignore the ticket? In lots of places, quasi-government agencies are responsible for enforcing local traffic laws, (park rangers, etc.) and their traffic tickets carry the full weight of the law.

You should check carefully before you act. (or don't act)

Looks like you're fucked:

http://www.mrca.ca.gov/MRCA Ordinance 2012.pdf

That last section says that it doesn't count as a violation under California, law.
You can tell them to pound sand, the only thing they could do is ding your credit.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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www.markbetz.net
Why do you say the brakes are on? Cyclops brake lights have been law(I think) for awhile now, and I don't see one in that pic.

Eh, you might be right. MY first impression was that the brake lights were illuminated. In any case, my advice remains the same.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61

LOL

OP is being very....weird.

I would believe him if he said that he stopped. However his huge rant with multiple incorrect assumptions makes me believe that he is just trying to avoid paying a ticket. I also believe this is the biggest thing going in the OP's life, which is a shame.

Pay the ticket then go see a movie. You will feel a lot better.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Also, if you are doing 15 MPH at that location, you either rolled through the stop sign or did a hole shot.
 
Oct 9, 1999
15,216
3
81
Well I wish there was a way to download teh video. if I can do that, then you can see teh video by itself.

I am not opposed to paying the fine, i am not trying to get away from paying the fine. As for the picture, its deceptive, since the frame catches it when i am off the brakes and moving forward.

Let me find a way to download the video..

That person Barry Slawter, I made a profile of him, 60's, with kids, lives in studio city... but he does not exist on the LEO database.. at least the last time i checked, i'll check again.
 
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Oct 9, 1999
15,216
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Re-looking at the video, I sorta did a california roll, but I did stop before taking off, even though it wasn't a full stop, I clearly did get into 1st gear and took off. But I still believe the video is sped up. I know my driving style, I always come to a stop, first gear and then take off.

Further more, frame 31, on normal TCR .. it normally runs 29.97 seconds to a frame (if you are keeping NTSC standard).. so that point frame 31 is bogus unless they are running 60fps.... see what i mean?
 
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Re-looking at the video, I sorta did a california roll, but I did stop before taking off, even though it wasn't a full stop, I clearly did get into 1st gear and took off. But I still believe the video is sped up. I know my driving style, I always come to a stop, first gear and then take off.

Further more, frame 31, on normal TCR .. it normally runs 29.97 seconds to a frame (if you are keeping NTSC standard).. so that point frame 31 is bogus unless they are running 60fps.... see what i mean?

LOL

I'm site you didn't do anything with a ticket but these things make money. ..so yea.

We only have one speed camera in my city. It doesn't actually give you tickets or even take a picture. The flash just goes off I'd you are going more than 8 over.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Re-looking at the video, I sorta did a california roll, but I did stop before taking off, even though it wasn't a full stop, I clearly did get into 1st gear and took off. But I still believe the video is sped up. I know my driving style, I always come to a stop, first gear and then take off.

Further more, frame 31, on normal TCR .. it normally runs 29.97 seconds to a frame (if you are keeping NTSC standard).. so that point frame 31 is bogus unless they are running 60fps.... see what i mean?
Sounds like you just admitted to doing what you got ticketed for.

Look, I drive like that, too. EVERYBODY does. And people who don't probably shouldn't be on the road (hint: go to the doctor and find out why your balls didn't drop, people), but if you get caught, you get caught.
 

TridenT

Lifer
Sep 4, 2006
16,800
45
91
Sounds like you just admitted to doing what you got ticketed for.

Look, I drive like that, too. EVERYBODY does. And people who don't probably shouldn't be on the road (hint: go to the doctor and find out why your balls didn't drop, people), but if you get caught, you get caught.

Self-ownage. OP is a moron.

I always stop even if there is no one in miles. I'm the worst!
 

Quakester

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
967
1
0
This, HOWEVER... Not really true. You can pull away from the line and still have your brake pedal pressed.

Tough to do with a manual transmission. Right foot can be on the brake or the accelerator but not both (unless it's a VW bug from the 60's)
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Sounds like you just admitted to doing what you got ticketed for.

Look, I drive like that, too. EVERYBODY does. And people who don't probably shouldn't be on the road (hint: go to the doctor and find out why your balls didn't drop, people), but if you get caught, you get caught.

This

Yet another thread from someone not taking responsibility for getting a ticket.
 
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