Consumer Reports removes 2012 Honda Civic 'Recommended' rating

[ShawnD1]

Civic fuel economy is no better, and in many cases notably worse than competitive models now, even compared to cars with substantially more power/features.

I have some time to kill so I might as well look this up. I'll use city mpg because I live in a city. Manual tranny only because I hate my car's auto.

Honda Civic - 140hp - 26mpg
Toyota Corolla - 132hp - 28mpg
Hyundai Elantra - 148hp - 29mpg :thumbsup:
Nissan Sentra - 140hp - 24mpg
Mazda 3 - 148hp - 25mpg
Ford Focus - 160hp - 25mpg

The Civic is ok I guess. It's not the best, it's not the worst. Of course max power isn't everything. Average torque across the entire rpm range is something you can feel but can't really see in a spec sheet. If you drive a Civic then drive a Corolla, you'll immediately notice that the Civic has a lot more torque at a lower rpm.

 

[Imp]

You are suppose to test drive cars before you buy them.
I love my '11. I knew it had 140HP when I bought it so stuff like the passing power is moot. It gets incredible gas mileage and that is why I bought this car in the first place.

Mom's car, hence the "my". But I was the main driver of it. Wasn't my choice, it was chosen by family members for the "Honda quality".

 

[ShawnD1]

And Shawn, pay attention. Nobody said it didn't work; its a question of feel and feedback.

The feel and feedback are fine. People were upset because the steering is very retro. If you've ever driven an old car, you might remember how the steering wheel turns maybe 2x or 3x as much as the wheels. When the steering wheel is cranked 90 degrees, the wheels may only turn 45 degrees. This is why you need to use hand-over-hand steering; you need to turn the steering wheel a hell of a lot before the wheels turn. That's exactly what a Corolla feels like. You could ditch your 1985 Pontiac, get a 2010 Corolla, and there would be no learning curve at all.


Cars like the Honda Civic and Nissan Maxima have steering ratios a lot closer to 1:1, so you can make very hard turns without taking either hand off the wheel.
The Corolla doesn't drive like a formula 1 car. It drives more like the General Lee.

 

[CraigRT]

High Resale
Reasonably good crash ratings
Average fuel economy for the class
Good reliability

And those are the exact reasons I went with a Honda.
Also I feel the fuel economy is very good. The Focus is rated very well too until you realize the high rating is on the special S.F.E. model and not all the others (which are worse than my car - 5 speeds)

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah I'm kind of 'meh' on the new Focus DCT, as it seems to take some of the fun out of it. I've got several huge road trips under the belt of my '08 5-Speed Coupe, and have repeated fillup-verified stretches of ~42mpg, including the use of AC, a passenger, luggage, and various inclines/etc. Here in town I get around 32-33 mixed, mostly city driving. Interestingly, on my trip out west last year, my mileage dipped into the high 30s as the altitude climbed. I think the worst fillup calculated down to 37.3mpg, have to check the receipts/notes I made. Usually I kept the speeds between 65-75mph.

Oh well, at least it isn't that horrible 4-speed slushbox they just finally dumped. I don't want another small fwd vehicle, but if I did, it'd have to be a real manual again.

 

[Cstefan]

I went with a Suzuki Kizashi over the Civic and could not be more pleased.

 

[jmarti445]

They test the Civic LX is because that's the model that most consumers buy. Too bad you guys didn't see or feel the interior in real life. It is absolutely horrendous.

I've seen more EX models on the road atleast when it comes to coupe form. I think they should have tested the midline model and not the low-end model. They could have tested the LX-S for instance. In all honesty and this is what kept me from going with the Honda Fit, I don't know why Drum Brakes are still being used in cars. They have a tendancy to fade with frequent stops. It would be one thing if the car weighed 2000 pounds but the car is weighing closer to 3000 pounds and up to 3300 pounds if you carpool.

 

[jmarti445]

The feel and feedback are fine. People were upset because the steering is very retro. If you've ever driven an old car, you might remember how the steering wheel turns maybe 2x or 3x as much as the wheels. When the steering wheel is cranked 90 degrees, the wheels may only turn 45 degrees. This is why you need to use hand-over-hand steering; you need to turn the steering wheel a hell of a lot before the wheels turn. That's exactly what a Corolla feels like. You could ditch your 1985 Pontiac, get a 2010 Corolla, and there would be no learning curve at all.


Cars like the Honda Civic and Nissan Maxima have steering ratios a lot closer to 1:1, so you can make very hard turns without taking either hand off the wheel.
The Corolla doesn't drive like a formula 1 car. It drives more like the General Lee.

So your corolla drives like a wrecked car? I don't understand the photo.

 

[CraigRT]

They test the Civic LX is because that's the model that most consumers buy. Too bad you guys didn't see or feel the interior in real life. It is absolutely horrendous.

I think the LX is probably the most popular model around here too. (as far as 8th gens at least)
Followed I think closely by the sport model which is called SE in Canada, (I think that's LX-S in the US) then lastly by the very basic DX.

 

[ShawnD1]

I went with a Suzuki Kizashi over the Civic and could not be more pleased.

You'll change your mind when the Suzuki screws up and nobody can figure out what is wrong with it. They're not known for their reliability.

 

[Arkaign]

Hah DX Civics around here come in two flavors : total crap, or total sleepers. For some reason they're oddly popular with people doing B18C, K20, H22A swaps, well the H22 is less common, but any of those motors in a mid-90s Civic well tuned runs shockingly quick. I'd be tempted to mess with one, but FWD is no fun for me.

 

[alexruiz]

You'll change your mind when the Suzuki screws up and nobody can figure out what is wrong with it. They're not known for their reliability.

I also own a Kizashi, and it troubles me at why the car is not more popular. It is a lovely machine! Remember than what tanked Suzuki's reputation were the GMDAT rebadges, that while functional, were truly appliances on wheels... I know it well, I owned one 😉

Hey Shawn, go test drive a Kizashi, it will absolutely please you. If you drive MT, even better. I even I challenge you to find a better "sports sedan" in the mold of the BMW 3 series for less than 30k. Remember, the 3 series got famous for being balanced, lovely driving dynamics coupled with an interior that exhudes quality. You can immediately feel how well put the Kizashi just by opening and closing the doors. Interior controls have perfectly weighted efforts (radio knobs being the exception, they are too light) and in general the car feels perfectly conceived as whole, rather than a bunch of parts tied together. It is not perfect, but for 22k, you cannot get anything more balanced as sports sedan than a Kizashi GTS with MT. Sunroof, premium audio and performance AS tires with a lovely 6SP manual transmission? Standard in a Kizashi GTS 😉

I drive the manual S, probably the fastest of the bunch (lighter than the GTS) and I find the car a joy to drive. The engine is a strong I-4, (185 hp) perfectly fine, very smooth, responsive and willing to rev. I had the chance to drive a CVT, and to be honest, they are 2 different cars. The CVT does a very good job at moving the car, but because of the calibration towards fuel economy, any sudden gas smash will be a non smooth spike in revs, not to mention that the car feels more sedated at the normal operating points.

In any sport sedan, a good manual transmission forgives a lot of sins, and the Kizashi is not exception. Engine is really the only complaint the magazines had, and the MT makes you forget that. 7.2 secs 0-60 with the MT is not bad if you ask me, but because the chassis is so good, more engine would surely make it shine. The MT is very smooth, precise and intuitive. Throws could be shorter, but the trans qualifies as sports car trans easily. With the engine as willing as it is, you enjoy shifting as needed. Add the superb chassis that lets you take corners and turns much faster that what you would in a different car, and the on ramp merge to the highway for me is more about taking care of not smashing to the vehicle in front. With the exception of the truly much higher powered machines, I have no trouble at letting the rest of the cars take a good look at my shiny dual tailpipes. Did I mention that the brakes have ferocious bite?

You lose nothing by test driving one. In fact, anyone in the market for a new car in the $20k range is making himself/herself a disservice by not test driving one. All you have to lose is 30 minutes of your life, but you can gain a new car that is not common at all. Did you ever drive a previous gen Acura TSX? The Kizashi is like its reincarnation. Fuel economy is good. It suffers in city driving as the J24B engine is kind of voracious and the car weighs 3400 pounds, but 23 mpg city is normal. It shines on the highway, and it can easily get 35-36 mpg highway driving. Aero efficiencies are the cause 😉 The car feels extremely composed under speed, and I worry than one day the boys in blue will get me because of that if not paying attention to the speedometer. Doing 80mph feels like 60-65 mph in another comparable car.

Yes, I have driven the car has a lot of people infatuated, the 2012 Focus. Nice car, well executed, probably equal to the Kizashi in handling, not as strong in braking, steering not as precise, feels less substantial, has more wind noise and you feel the speed more. Not to mention that engine and trans are not even comparable (no 6sp MT for starters) Yes, they are almost the same size, only 300 pounds apart in mass, and same price. Can you get decent equipment with your focus AND a 6 SP MT?

 

[alexruiz]

I went with a Suzuki Kizashi over the Civic and could not be more pleased.

Wow, another fellow Kizashi owner. Congrats on the ride! What trim level?
Have you register on Kizashiclub.com?

 

[alexruiz]

Back into topic. If you believe what the appliances magazine says about cars, you deserve to use what they recommend:

- Go the the autopia forums and tell everyone that you are using the CR #1 rated wax... see what the reaction is.
- Go to a contractor or paint forum and tell them that you want to use the CR #1 rated interior paint... see what they tell you.
- Come here to anandtech and tell us that you want to buy CR #1 rated desktop... see the reaction.

If their choices are not echoed by the enthusiasts in their respective fields, why believe them for anything else? "Scientific procedure" is painting a 2 x 2 piece of drywall and let it dry to the sun? Paint a whole wall you chumps and see if you rate that cr@p #1, wax a whole car and see if you rate that garbage #1...

Rant off.

 

[Meghan54]

The feel and feedback are fine. People were upset because the steering is very retro. If you've ever driven an old car, you might remember how the steering wheel turns maybe 2x or 3x as much as the wheels. When the steering wheel is cranked 90 degrees, the wheels may only turn 45 degrees. This is why you need to use hand-over-hand steering; you need to turn the steering wheel a hell of a lot before the wheels turn. That's exactly what a Corolla feels like. You could ditch your 1985 Pontiac, get a 2010 Corolla, and there would be no learning curve at all.


Cars like the Honda Civic and Nissan Maxima have steering ratios a lot closer to 1:1, so you can make very hard turns without taking either hand off the wheel.
The Corolla doesn't drive like a formula 1 car. It drives more like the General Lee.

I really wish you'd learn something about what you're talking about instead of talking out your anus.

A car with a typical "quick" steering ratio is around 16:1 or so. This ratio is calculated by measuring how many degrees of wheel movement results from one turn of the steering wheel. In the example above on full steering wheel turn (360 degrees) and with an overall steering ratio of 16:1 will yield 22.5 degrees of wheel rotation about the spindle since 360 degrees (in one rotation) divided by 22.5 degrees of measured travel=16, or a 16:1 ratio.

What that means in real life is it takes around 2.5 turns lock-to-lock, with the term lock being the hard stop where the steering wheel will not turn when rotated in each direction.

While it's true very old cars, like typical cars back in the 1960's, had a lock-to-lock of around 5 turns with non-power steering setups and today's cars tend to be much quicker at around 2.5-3.5 turns lock-to-lock, you certainly still have to use hand-over-hand for extreme turning. (BTW.....your Corolla has a steering ratio of 17:1, quite quick, and has 3.4 turns lock-to-lock.)

But no car has a steering ratio anywhere near 1:1.....a twitch of the wheel would send the car into a ditch if that were true. What you'd have in that case is a half turn of the wheel from center would completely turn the wheels to full lock position in either direction....something only found on F1 race cars or the like.

Your Corolla still has to turn its steering wheel multiple times to go through the full range of front wheel travel.

And for road feel, so far most electric steering is woefully inadequate in that regard. But since you've just started driving recently, you missed out on the real steering wheel feedback and feel that existed before this decade.

Take out an old, decent sports car.....you'll discover things your Corolla never will have, like true feedback through the steering wheel and through the chassis.

1:1 steering ratio......that really made me laugh! I must say....you never fail to deliver on the ignorance scale.