Consumer confidence drops to lowest since 09

[JS80]

Thank you Spidey07 for proving my point. You only care about hurting Obama. You do not care how badly you hurt America too. You and the lunatics like you are killing jobs and wrecking the economy.

Hurting Obama = less bad for America than helping him.

 

[BoberFett]

LMAO if you can't handle the truth block me...

Ditto, bitch.

 

[Ldir]

Hurting Obama = less bad for America than helping him.

Here's another entry in the Hate Obama First club. Yes Boberfett, some republicans are trying to destroy America.

 

[metalfacepc]

You know what really is to blame for our shitty economy? OUR SHITTY ECONOMY! It is founded on debt, and inflation so we can have more debt.

Big business and banks were the winners of the game, they are not the problem. If you knock them down with higher taxes all you have is a shitty economic system with really high taxes.

I completely agree here. Deficit spending by the government perpetuates debt, and taxing the big corporations just means more jobs being shipped off shore. Everybody should be worried about consumer confidence because it affects us all.

 

[BoberFett]

Here's another entry in the Hate Obama First club. Yes Boberfett, some republicans are trying to destroy America.

Because there weren't ANY Democrats who said and did the same types of things when Bush and the Republicans were running things... :hmm:

 

[Doppel]

Threads like this are great because still nobody can agree on a root cause, just more partisan arguing.

 

[Spikesoldier]

Ditto, bitch.

I support this.

This guy has the balls to call a spade a spade. Not a common trait in america.

 

[Ausm]

Ditto, bitch.

LOL :wub::wub:

 

[Ausm]

Because there weren't ANY Democrats who said and did the same types of things when Bush and the Republicans were running things... :hmm:

Democrats didn't set a record on filibusters and when the Dems had the house we didn't hold the Debt limit hostage either.

 

[Ausm]

Here's another entry in the Hate Obama First club. Yes Boberfett, some republicans are trying to destroy America.

He can't figure out the blatantly obvious so he labels you as a partisan troll..WEAK imo

 

[BoberFett]

Democrats didn't set a record on filibusters and when the Dems had the house we didn't hold the Debt limit hostage either.

And you also didn't stop the Iraq war or any of Bush's other out of control bullshit. Face it, you're useless as the minority OR the majority. Democrats are useless period.

 

[werepossum]

I bet you 2 minutes after a Republican makes it into the White house the Trillions of dollars Big Biz is sitting on will flood the market.

Some Big Business (and small business) money will come in if there's a Republican, especially a Tea Party type who presents little or no risk of imposing additional costly penalties like Cap & Tax or additional taxes on energy. That's not going to fix the economy though; a lot of money is sitting in interest-bearing accounts waiting for signs the economy (meaning the private sector) is in a strong recovery. Some companies will expand as soon as they feel no threat of future punishment from government, but a lot are going to remain super-cautious and make sure they can get as much productivity from as few employees as possible. And some are probably going to expand regardless in a year or two, as the costs of Obamacare become clear and winners and losers emerge.

A simple plan like Reagan's isn't going to fix us this time because so much of what consumers buy is imported - stimulate consumption and you simply accelerate the flow of wealth out of the country. We're going to have to figure out how to return wealth-producing jobs to this country without killing the environment or drastically lowering our standard of living, fix the fundamental problem (that we consume far more than we produce), to really fix our economy. Otherwise we're just going to have another bubble financed by foreign-owned debt.

 

[Lithium381]

You guys are clowns....... too many of you are too blind to see Obamas policies are NOT GOOD for the economy. "If you don't like obamas policies, it's only because you're a partisian hack" (either that or you're racist)......

I'll be the first to admit that the majority of people in congress aren't doing a damn bit of good either... on BOTH sides of the aisle....
Businesses are hesitant to move their money because the policies that are coming out of this administration are going to COST THEM money, either to adhere to more regulation, or to pay higher taxes.
Think about this: There is a one year waiting list for a car that you want. Due to model year changes that are about to occur, the car you get in a year from now MIGHT NOT HAVE an engine or tires. But it might. Would you pay cash now for that car or wait and see what you were really going to get before expending money?

And you guys blame corporations.... they're holding on to their cash the same as a family would in tough and uncertain times

 

[werepossum]

You guys are clowns....... too many of you are too blind to see Obamas policies are NOT GOOD for the economy. "If you don't like obamas policies, it's only because you're a partisian hack" (either that or you're racist)......

I'll be the first to admit that the majority of people in congress aren't doing a damn bit of good either... on BOTH sides of the aisle....
Businesses are hesitant to move their money because the policies that are coming out of this administration are going to COST THEM money, either to adhere to more regulation, or to pay higher taxes.
Think about this: There is a one year waiting list for a car that you want. Due to model year changes that are about to occur, the car you get in a year from now MIGHT NOT HAVE an engine or tires. But it might. Would you pay cash now for that car or wait and see what you were really going to get before expending money?

And you guys blame corporations.... they're holding on to their cash the same as a family would in tough and uncertain times

True and well said, and a good analogy. My only quibble is that fear of Obama, while a legitimate brake on the economy, is by far not the only such brake, and might in fact even be relatively minor. We have fundamental problems that no combination of Democrat/Republican White House/Congress is going to fix. Both parties WANT to fix the economy. Neither party really knows how, and there are no easy fixes. And both parties have other priorities, such as gaining and retaining power personally and as a party, as well as special interests, that come first.

 

[JS80]

You guys are clowns....... too many of you are too blind to see Obamas policies are NOT GOOD for the economy. "If you don't like obamas policies, it's only because you're a partisian hack" (either that or you're racist)......

I'll be the first to admit that the majority of people in congress aren't doing a damn bit of good either... on BOTH sides of the aisle....
Businesses are hesitant to move their money because the policies that are coming out of this administration are going to COST THEM money, either to adhere to more regulation, or to pay higher taxes.
Think about this: There is a one year waiting list for a car that you want. Due to model year changes that are about to occur, the car you get in a year from now MIGHT NOT HAVE an engine or tires. But it might. Would you pay cash now for that car or wait and see what you were really going to get before expending money?

And you guys blame corporations.... they're holding on to their cash the same as a family would in tough and uncertain times

And some policies are straight up actionable. Case in point - WF is dropping healthcare for employees due to Obamacare.

 

[Infohawk]

It has failed...as has the GOP policies of cut more taxes. In essence, we're fucked. The US is in a systemic downturn that neither side can fix, period. Too many better paying jobs shipped out from under the lower and lower middle classes....the foundation is collapsing and it's going to take anyone without a helicopter (or corporate jet) with them.

This is it. Unfortunately, neither party wants to talk about Ross Perot's accurate prediction.

 

[woolfe9999]

You guys are clowns....... too many of you are too blind to see Obamas policies are NOT GOOD for the economy. "If you don't like obamas policies, it's only because you're a partisian hack" (either that or you're racist)......

I'll be the first to admit that the majority of people in congress aren't doing a damn bit of good either... on BOTH sides of the aisle....
Businesses are hesitant to move their money because the policies that are coming out of this administration are going to COST THEM money, either to adhere to more regulation, or to pay higher taxes.
Think about this: There is a one year waiting list for a car that you want. Due to model year changes that are about to occur, the car you get in a year from now MIGHT NOT HAVE an engine or tires. But it might. Would you pay cash now for that car or wait and see what you were really going to get before expending money?

And you guys blame corporations.... they're holding on to their cash the same as a family would in tough and uncertain times

Which new regulations and which new taxes are causing uncertainty that is causing which particular industries to hold on to cash? This is basically a standard GOP rhetorical talking point, and it isn't the first time I've heard it. Some of us have long memories. Repubs were saying this exact thing during Clinton's first year, that the private sector wasn't spending because of "uncertainty," "regulations," "taxes," yet somehow the economy ended up booming with the democrat in office, disproving the assertions. I see no reason to believe similar assertions this time around.

So far, I've seen zero evidence to support these assertions other than the occasional corporate big wig who mouths off to the press about "all these regulations are causing us not to hire new people," so please deregulate me so that I can further line my pockets, ahem, create more jobs. These anecdotal remarks from people with a direct financial interest in de-regulation and lowering corporate taxes are your evidence, period. You're going to have to better than that.

- wolf

 

[spidey07]

Which new regulations and which new taxes are causing uncertainty that is causing which particular industries to hold on to cash? This is basically a standard GOP rhetorical talking point, and it isn't the first time I've heard it. Some of us have long memories. Repubs were saying this exact thing during Clinton's first year, that the private sector wasn't spending because of "uncertainty," "regulations," "taxes," yet somehow the economy ended up booming with the democrat in office, disproving the assertions. I see no reason to believe similar assertions this time around.

So far, I've seen zero evidence to support these assertions other than the occasional corporate big wig who mouths off to the press about "all these regulations are causing us not to hire new people," so please deregulate me so that I can further line my pockets, ahem, create more jobs. These anecdotal remarks from people with a direct financial interest in de-regulation and lowering corporate taxes are your evidence, period. You're going to have to better than that.

- wolf

You're not paying attention to this president. This just came out today and something like it seems to come out every week.

http://www.businessinsider.com/president-obamas-90-billion-regulation-2011-8

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor called it "possibly the most harmful of all the currently anticipated Obama Administration regulations," in a memo to House Republicans Monday, adding he will seek to repeal the legislation this Winter. Cantor said estimates put the cost of the rule at "$1 trillion or more over a decade and millions of jobs."

The Manufacturers Alliance, a lobbying group for industry, put the cost of meeting the regulation at $1.013 trillion and 7.3 million jobs between 2020 and 2030 — numbers the Obama administration strongly contests.

 

[Craig234]

What big corporations want: fewer regulations to let them profit more no matter how high the cost to society.

What convinces voters: talk about 'big government' filled with 'pointless inefficient red tape' that 'drags the economy down and raises prices'.

So what we get are outrageous demands for deregulation against the public interest argued for with the false attacks of 'big government red tape'.

Works like a *champ*, even moreso given the corporate side has a very well-funded propaganda machine, and it's a one-sided media battle.

The wealthy this way get the public fighting their battles for them.

 

[Lithium381]

And when citizens are worried about jobs, Obama wants to go around the back way and opens the border without approval of congress!

 

[JSt0rm]

And when citizens are worried about jobs, Obama wants to go around the back way and opens the border without approval of congress!

How much of our gdp do you find acceptable to spend deporting people?

 

[brencat]

If corporations are sitting on tons of cash reserves that they won't spend, why don't we just pass a temporary giant tax on cash reserves?

Should we extend that to savers and retirees as well -- people who just won't get it that they need to 'spend more' to kick start our economy? I mean it's not enough that interest rates are damn near zero and banks are now charging people to keep their money in a bank and retirees are trying to figure out what to replace maturing bonds and other fixed income instruments with that pay a decent yield, but let's punish them further, all so we can get at those fat cat corporate treasuries flush with cash!! Yeeeeee-aaaaaah

 

[trenchfoot]

Great, let's give the responsibility of fixing the economy back to the people that broke it through lowering taxes for the rich, deregulating/ignoring regs and letting big business call all the shots on running the gov't through its businessmen-turned-totally-corrupt-politicians....all of the same failed ideas/ideology they're pushing at this very moment to regain the Presidency.

The Party of NO NO NO is chomping at the bit, straining at the reins and driving itself crazy in its frantic attempt at regaining the chance to turn control of the treasury back over to the Koch brothers and their ilk.

And they want another big business-owned remote controlled bot from Texas to do it all over again.

Yeah, that'll work....for the very rich.....again.

 

[woolfe9999]

You're not paying attention to this president. This just came out today and something like it seems to come out every week.

http://www.businessinsider.com/president-obamas-90-billion-regulation-2011-8

Quite ironic if this was intended as a response to my point. It shows an industry lobbyist group reacting to a proposed regulation by putting forth a suspiciously immense cost number. Which Eric Cantor obviously picked up and used politically. Sounds like rep. Cantor is no more than a stooge for lobbyists, eh?

What amazes me is not that corporations and their lobbyists provide these soundbites and faux statistics to supply rhetoric to anti-government ideologues, but that so many people are suckered by it. Every time one of them spouts off about "crippling regulations" or "uncertainty" some lemming or 10 is off to start a thread about it on some discussion forum. Sorry, I heard all this 20 years ago when Clinton took office. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.

I can't blame the corporations for this kind of behavior. I'd probably do the same thing. They have an obligation to their shareholders to maximize profits, and they must oppose any regulation that will cut into that bottom line, but any means, fair or unfair. As for the people who buy into this crap, that is another matter...

- wolf

 

[Ausm]

And you also didn't stop the Iraq war or any of Bush's other out of control bullshit. Face it, you're useless as the minority OR the majority. Democrats are useless period.

I don't recall that I have ever said that the Dems were Gods in Congress in fact I have pointed out countless times on this forum that BOTH sides in Congress are a joke.

Please control your rage