Constantly bullied, he ends his life at age 11

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
I was talking to my girlfriend about this. Sometimes life simply brings questions without any clear answers. Could the parents have done more? Perhaps, but they might've overcompensated. You never know exactly how serious to take your kid. If you take him too seriously, you'll wind up fighting all his battles for him and he'll be dependent. If you don't take him seriously enough, he might wind up killing himself at 11.

Being a parent must be scary indeed.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't believe any "average" amount of bullying, or even fairly extreme bullying, would lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to take his own life. The kid either had A: mental issues or B: had a warped upbringing that distorted his sense of reality so much that he came to believe suicide was the way out, at age 11. It comes down to this: an eleven year old is not capable of making large decisions for himself. All of his decision making skills up to this point are based upon input from parents and family, rather than personal life experience. I'm not making any claims to a conclusion, too many details are missing to even begin to do so, but to me the situation warrants more investigation, or perhaps study is a better term. If I was a sociologist or a psychologist, this would be an exceptional case study. And this is what should be done, not knee jerk reactions like others here would propose.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you have been the victim of relentless bullying, being made to feel inadequate every day, you cannot relate or empathize.
He saw one way out of a hell he saw himself living in for the rest of his life. Too bad you're so biased as to not see that as well.

Please re-read my post, because you didn't comprehend. I'm not trying to relate or empathize, I'm trying to dissect and understand. I make two assertions, either he was mentally unstable or he was nurtured in such a way that lead him to believe suicide was the answer. Your own experience really doesn't matter because you didn't kill yourself, thus you are either NOT mentally unstable, or you WERE nurtured properly. Which you actually stated, the love and compassion of your parents.

By taking issue with my two assertions, you are proposing a third solution, that in fact the bullying was so bad that suicide was the correct answer to his problem.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't believe any "average" amount of bullying, or even fairly extreme bullying, would lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to take his own life. The kid either had A: mental issues or B: had a warped upbringing that distorted his sense of reality so much that he came to believe suicide was the way out, at age 11. It comes down to this: an eleven year old is not capable of making large decisions for himself. All of his decision making skills up to this point are based upon input from parents and family, rather than personal life experience. I'm not making any claims to a conclusion, too many details are missing to even begin to do so, but to me the situation warrants more investigation, or perhaps study is a better term. If I was a sociologist or a psychologist, this would be an exceptional case study. And this is what should be done, not knee jerk reactions like others here would propose.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you have been the victim of relentless bullying, being made to feel inadequate every day, you cannot relate or empathize.
He saw one way out of a hell he saw himself living in for the rest of his life. Too bad you're so biased as to not see that as well.

Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, you may have been bullied but that doesn't mean Triumph is wrong. Hell, I was as a kid too(as was everyone on my bus by a meat-head who thought it was funny) but that didn't cause anyone to do what this kid did. Obviously there was more to it than just bullying OR it was a VERY EXTREME case of bullying. As Triumph stated, average or even above aveage bullying would not lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to do this.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
I fear more of the kneejerk reactions which tend to take place after isolated incidents like this are brought to the light.

I was bullied in school until I finally stood up for myself and some explosion happened in my brain that said this is it, either I end up face down in a pool of blood or the other kid does, but this has to stop. The bully had no clue that I was ready for a fight, and being about 50 pounds heavier then him (that was the brunt of the bullying mind you), I just pushed him into the wall of lockets and body slammed him multiple times. Then of course adults came out and ended it before any real damage was done. But that ended my torment.

People need to learn how to respond to bullies, because a kneejerk reaction that tries to rid the schools of bullies WILL fail... or make those students even less capable of dealing with bullies when they appear later in life.

Yeah, clearly you should have held on to that resentment and then support and sign legislation that "outlaws" bullying like our moron "governor" chester culver. knee-jerk victim mentality reactions tend to make for bad decisions/laws IMO.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't believe any "average" amount of bullying, or even fairly extreme bullying, would lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to take his own life. The kid either had A: mental issues or B: had a warped upbringing that distorted his sense of reality so much that he came to believe suicide was the way out, at age 11. It comes down to this: an eleven year old is not capable of making large decisions for himself. All of his decision making skills up to this point are based upon input from parents and family, rather than personal life experience. I'm not making any claims to a conclusion, too many details are missing to even begin to do so, but to me the situation warrants more investigation, or perhaps study is a better term. If I was a sociologist or a psychologist, this would be an exceptional case study. And this is what should be done, not knee jerk reactions like others here would propose.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you have been the victim of relentless bullying, being made to feel inadequate every day, you cannot relate or empathize.
He saw one way out of a hell he saw himself living in for the rest of his life. Too bad you're so biased as to not see that as well.

Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, you may have been bullied but that doesn't mean Triumph is wrong. Hell, I was as a kid too(as was everyone on my bus by a meat-head who thought it was funny) but that didn't cause anyone to do what this kid did. Obviously there was more to it than just bullying OR it was a VERY EXTREME case of bullying. As Triumph stated, average or even above aveage bullying would not lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to do this.

Right, I have no idea, ok. I think you answered your own question. VERY EXTREME. And this poor child saw it as an unending hell for the rest of his life. I've walked in his shoes, and I can tell you it entered my mind more times than I care to mention.

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't believe any "average" amount of bullying, or even fairly extreme bullying, would lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to take his own life. The kid either had A: mental issues or B: had a warped upbringing that distorted his sense of reality so much that he came to believe suicide was the way out, at age 11. It comes down to this: an eleven year old is not capable of making large decisions for himself. All of his decision making skills up to this point are based upon input from parents and family, rather than personal life experience. I'm not making any claims to a conclusion, too many details are missing to even begin to do so, but to me the situation warrants more investigation, or perhaps study is a better term. If I was a sociologist or a psychologist, this would be an exceptional case study. And this is what should be done, not knee jerk reactions like others here would propose.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you have been the victim of relentless bullying, being made to feel inadequate every day, you cannot relate or empathize.
He saw one way out of a hell he saw himself living in for the rest of his life. Too bad you're so biased as to not see that as well.

Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, you may have been bullied but that doesn't mean Triumph is wrong. Hell, I was as a kid too(as was everyone on my bus by a meat-head who thought it was funny) but that didn't cause anyone to do what this kid did. Obviously there was more to it than just bullying OR it was a VERY EXTREME case of bullying. As Triumph stated, average or even above aveage bullying would not lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to do this.

I don't think you really understand what Sheik is talking about. You say you were bullied as was everyone else by one guy. There's a big difference between dealing with a bully like that, where you're still part of a group that is bullied, and being bullied by everyone. I was about the same as this kid from 2nd grade on. I was a smart kid, but I also had ADD and a speech impediment. As a result of this I had to be in a special class 1 period a day by order of my idiot school. This excluded me enough to give at least 5 other kids a reason to target me for ridicule, harassment, and physical abuse. And it was so bad that not just them, but everyone encouraged it to the point where I had a regular 15-20 tormentors (mob mentality). Hell I even had friends stop being my friends because they realized it was easier to avoid abuse by avoiding me because anyone around me got targeted. I was excluded, harassed, assaulted badly several times. By age 10 there wasn't a day that went by that I didn't consider suicide. I had days where the knife was against my wrist, where the noose was tied and ready, where the garage door was down and the keys to my parents' car in the ignition. I pulled myself away every time, but barely.

The problem is that this kid didn't have mental issues or a warped upbringing, he was tortured. His psyche was ripped apart regularly everyday. It's fully possible to drive someone insane but simply subjecting them to enough mental turmoil that their mind breaks. And this is what happened. It doesn't make a difference what this kid's parents did, they're not his peers and children always want to be accepted by their peers.

I can understand what this kid went through better than most because I was almost there. Very few of you who think you were bullied were ever even close to what it's like to truly be bullied.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: thraashman

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't believe any "average" amount of bullying, or even fairly extreme bullying, would lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to take his own life. The kid either had A: mental issues or B: had a warped upbringing that distorted his sense of reality so much that he came to believe suicide was the way out, at age 11. It comes down to this: an eleven year old is not capable of making large decisions for himself. All of his decision making skills up to this point are based upon input from parents and family, rather than personal life experience. I'm not making any claims to a conclusion, too many details are missing to even begin to do so, but to me the situation warrants more investigation, or perhaps study is a better term. If I was a sociologist or a psychologist, this would be an exceptional case study. And this is what should be done, not knee jerk reactions like others here would propose.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you have been the victim of relentless bullying, being made to feel inadequate every day, you cannot relate or empathize.
He saw one way out of a hell he saw himself living in for the rest of his life. Too bad you're so biased as to not see that as well.

Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, you may have been bullied but that doesn't mean Triumph is wrong. Hell, I was as a kid too(as was everyone on my bus by a meat-head who thought it was funny) but that didn't cause anyone to do what this kid did. Obviously there was more to it than just bullying OR it was a VERY EXTREME case of bullying. As Triumph stated, average or even above aveage bullying would not lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to do this.

I don't think you really understand what Sheik is talking about. You say you were bullied as was everyone else by one guy. There's a big difference between dealing with a bully like that, where you're still part of a group that is bullied, and being bullied by everyone. I was about the same as this kid from 2nd grade on. I was a smart kid, but I also had ADD and a speech impediment. As a result of this I had to be in a special class 1 period a day by order of my idiot school. This excluded me enough to give at least 5 other kids a reason to target me for ridicule, harassment, and physical abuse. And it was so bad that not just them, but everyone encouraged it to the point where I had a regular 15-20 tormentors (mob mentality). Hell I even had friends stop being my friends because they realized it was easier to avoid abuse by avoiding me because anyone around me got targeted. I was excluded, harassed, assaulted badly several times. By age 10 there wasn't a day that went by that I didn't consider suicide. I had days where the knife was against my wrist, where the noose was tied and ready, where the garage door was down and the keys to my parents' car in the ignition. I pulled myself away every time, but barely.

The problem is that this kid didn't have mental issues or a warped upbringing, he was tortured. His psyche was ripped apart regularly everyday. It's fully possible to drive someone insane but simply subjecting them to enough mental turmoil that their mind breaks. And this is what happened. It doesn't make a difference what this kid's parents did, they're not his peers and children always want to be accepted by their peers.

I can understand what this kid went through better than most because I was almost there. Very few of you who think you were bullied were ever even close to what it's like to truly be bullied.

Thank you, that is exactly what I was trying to explain.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't believe any "average" amount of bullying, or even fairly extreme bullying, would lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to take his own life. The kid either had A: mental issues or B: had a warped upbringing that distorted his sense of reality so much that he came to believe suicide was the way out, at age 11. It comes down to this: an eleven year old is not capable of making large decisions for himself. All of his decision making skills up to this point are based upon input from parents and family, rather than personal life experience. I'm not making any claims to a conclusion, too many details are missing to even begin to do so, but to me the situation warrants more investigation, or perhaps study is a better term. If I was a sociologist or a psychologist, this would be an exceptional case study. And this is what should be done, not knee jerk reactions like others here would propose.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you have been the victim of relentless bullying, being made to feel inadequate every day, you cannot relate or empathize.
He saw one way out of a hell he saw himself living in for the rest of his life. Too bad you're so biased as to not see that as well.

Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, you may have been bullied but that doesn't mean Triumph is wrong. Hell, I was as a kid too(as was everyone on my bus by a meat-head who thought it was funny) but that didn't cause anyone to do what this kid did. Obviously there was more to it than just bullying OR it was a VERY EXTREME case of bullying. As Triumph stated, average or even above aveage bullying would not lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to do this.

Right, I have no idea, ok. I think you answered your own question. VERY EXTREME. And this poor child saw it as an unending hell for the rest of his life. I've walked in his shoes, and I can tell you it entered my mind more times than I care to mention.

i completely agree with sheik on this one.

there is your standard bullying that pretty much everyone gets, then there is the heavy bullying that some people get, and then there is the unending, constant hell that some people get. Having been through that, I can completely understand why this kid would want to off himself; when you are 11, with no hope and no one who will help you, and on top of it tend to be the type to internalize your problems, suicide really becomes your best option.

edit: traashmans post is a pretty good summary of my experience.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: thraashman

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't believe any "average" amount of bullying, or even fairly extreme bullying, would lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to take his own life. The kid either had A: mental issues or B: had a warped upbringing that distorted his sense of reality so much that he came to believe suicide was the way out, at age 11. It comes down to this: an eleven year old is not capable of making large decisions for himself. All of his decision making skills up to this point are based upon input from parents and family, rather than personal life experience. I'm not making any claims to a conclusion, too many details are missing to even begin to do so, but to me the situation warrants more investigation, or perhaps study is a better term. If I was a sociologist or a psychologist, this would be an exceptional case study. And this is what should be done, not knee jerk reactions like others here would propose.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless you have been the victim of relentless bullying, being made to feel inadequate every day, you cannot relate or empathize.
He saw one way out of a hell he saw himself living in for the rest of his life. Too bad you're so biased as to not see that as well.

Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, you may have been bullied but that doesn't mean Triumph is wrong. Hell, I was as a kid too(as was everyone on my bus by a meat-head who thought it was funny) but that didn't cause anyone to do what this kid did. Obviously there was more to it than just bullying OR it was a VERY EXTREME case of bullying. As Triumph stated, average or even above aveage bullying would not lead an otherwise healthy, well adjusted child to do this.

I don't think you really understand what Sheik is talking about. You say you were bullied as was everyone else by one guy. There's a big difference between dealing with a bully like that, where you're still part of a group that is bullied, and being bullied by everyone. I was about the same as this kid from 2nd grade on. I was a smart kid, but I also had ADD and a speech impediment. As a result of this I had to be in a special class 1 period a day by order of my idiot school. This excluded me enough to give at least 5 other kids a reason to target me for ridicule, harassment, and physical abuse. And it was so bad that not just them, but everyone encouraged it to the point where I had a regular 15-20 tormentors (mob mentality). Hell I even had friends stop being my friends because they realized it was easier to avoid abuse by avoiding me because anyone around me got targeted. I was excluded, harassed, assaulted badly several times. By age 10 there wasn't a day that went by that I didn't consider suicide. I had days where the knife was against my wrist, where the noose was tied and ready, where the garage door was down and the keys to my parents' car in the ignition. I pulled myself away every time, but barely.

The problem is that this kid didn't have mental issues or a warped upbringing, he was tortured. His psyche was ripped apart regularly everyday. It's fully possible to drive someone insane but simply subjecting them to enough mental turmoil that their mind breaks. And this is what happened. It doesn't make a difference what this kid's parents did, they're not his peers and children always want to be accepted by their peers.

I can understand what this kid went through better than most because I was almost there. Very few of you who think you were bullied were ever even close to what it's like to truly be bullied.

Nowhere did I say MY experience was on the same level, however it is also subjective. People like to think their situation was bad when they are affected but there is no way to tell objectively what level it actually was unless there is outside observation.

I understand there are those who are extremely tormented by others - I've not said it doesn't happen to some. However, it would take an extreme amount of bullying and torment for an otherwise healty and well adjusted kid to do this. Yes yes, everyone thinks their case is "extreme" if they had issues with it. I don't consider mine extreme, but I also didn't take it like some others did so it didn't continue.

The article doesn't do a very good job of laying out the type of bullying except a few little instances. From just reading those - there was no "torture" but there is likely more to the story - not only from the bullying side but also the kid's side. Everyone's kid at 11 is some sweet innocent angel that had potential but there is likely much more to it than what was reported.


Anyway, you and sheik can continue on and on but just because you experienced things does not mean that others can't opine on severity and other factors. This kid MAY have been extremely bullied but it doesn't change what triumph or I stated.

 

[trooper11]

Originally posted by: thraashman
The problem is that this kid didn't have mental issues or a warped upbringing, he was tortured. His psyche was ripped apart regularly everyday. It's fully possible to drive someone insane but simply subjecting them to enough mental turmoil that their mind breaks. And this is what happened. It doesn't make a difference what this kid's parents did, they're not his peers and children always want to be accepted by their peers.

I can understand what this kid went through better than most because I was almost there. Very few of you who think you were bullied were ever even close to what it's like to truly be bullied.

what you say is very true, I know what the feeling is like, its not just run of the mill name calling, its on a whole other level of constant pressure that keeps you locked up inside.

but, its important to remember that you and others that lived through similar issues, didnt take that extreme step. It may have been thought about on several occasions, but there was always something that kept you on solid ground. that something is what this unfortunate child lacked. That something could be the support of your family, your own personality to fight back, who knows, but there was something that kept pushing you forward. Thats the same thing I found that kept me moving forward in the face of such abusive environments.

 

[JACKDRUID]

"let boys be boys" is what got us here today; kids getting bullied, end up hanging themselves.

its sad. We need to have a much strictly monitored campus, and harsher punish for bullies. Kids should be competing intellectually, not how well they dress or how big they are (as portrayed in many stupid teen movies)

 

[Robor]

Suicide @ 11 years old? Wow. Poor kid.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Constantly bullied, he ends his life at age 11

I don't have much commentary to except that this is the saddest thing I've seen in a long time. I imagine one can say that there must have been other psychological issues going on or that that there's something beyond bullying at play but in any case it's just sad when a kid does it.

I honestly wouldn't say there are other things going on. That makes it too easy. Quite simply, school officials / teachers first, and parents possibly second, did not get involved enough. Teachers should have stepped in to stop the bullying.

When you're 10, nothing else in the world matters. Peer review is everything.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
"let boys be boys" is what got us here today; kids getting bullied, end up hanging themselves.

its sad. We need to have a much strictly monitored campus, and harsher punish for bullies. Kids should be competing intellectually, not how well they dress or how big they are (as portrayed in many stupid teen movies)

I fear the future if these changes were made. Better to be bullied at 11 and LEARN how to deal with them then being unprepared when entering an unsupervised world.

Let boys be boys has worked for how many years... only in the past few years are some psychobabblists trying to "fix" this with their magic wands.

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Better to be bullied at 11 and LEARN how to deal with them then being unprepared when entering an unsupervised world.

Let boys be boys has worked for how many years... only in the past few years are some psychobabblists trying to "fix" this with their magic wands.

These kids get bullied for year and years, end up in psychological trauma / depression.

THAT IS NOT LEARNING. if you think it is learning, you need to get your head checked.

another one

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
"let boys be boys" is what got us here today; kids getting bullied, end up hanging themselves.

its sad. We need to have a much strictly monitored campus, and harsher punish for bullies. Kids should be competing intellectually, not how well they dress or how big they are (as portrayed in many stupid teen movies)

I fear the future if these changes were made. Better to be bullied at 11 and LEARN how to deal with them then being unprepared when entering an unsupervised world.

Let boys be boys has worked for how many years... only in the past few years are some psychobabblists trying to "fix" this with their magic wands.

this isn't bullying as most people understand it, its more along the lines of systemic torture and alienation

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Constantly bullied, he ends his life at age 11

I don't have much commentary to except that this is the saddest thing I've seen in a long time. I imagine one can say that there must have been other psychological issues going on or that that there's something beyond bullying at play but in any case it's just sad when a kid does it.

I would have liked the story better if he had taken a gun and slaughtered the bullies.