Considering new router(s) -- 802.11n???

[Balforth]

Hi all

I currently have an ASUS WL500G and a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 with an aftermarket antenna running Tomato. I used to live in the US, where I used the ASUS as a router only with the buffalo connected as an AP only. I have since moved to Germany where I'm stuck with a crappy O2 DSL router serving out both my SIP phones and internet. I turned the wireless on that guy off and still use my Buffalo as the AP.

I built myself a HTPC, which now plugs directly into my ASUS running in bridge mode, along with my PS3. We also have about 4 other laptops, and ipad, and an ipod touch connected.

Since burning my DVD and Bluray collection to my HTPC, I noticed it's basically impossible to stream HD content to my bedroom laptop from the HTPC. The thick German cinder block walls don't help, I'm sure, although both the HTPC and bedroom laptop are not very far from the AP antenna. The kids have started streaming from the HTPC recently as well, so there will be lots of bits flying around the 192.168.x.x subnet in my house.

I just got a $100 amazon gift card for papa's day and was wondering if I might start upgrading some of my networking equipment. Will going to 802.11n help my streaming of HD content? People talk about 5ghz like it's desirable, but if it shortens the range, my kids on the 3rd floor might not be happy. However my buffalo and asus routers get replaced, I could use them together as a bridge/AP to server as a dual radio repeater just serving out a G AP.

Any advice?

 

[smitbret]

If you are streaming HD, then N is going to be be a definite plus. I get about 3 times the bandwidth (real-world) of a G network. I'm not surprised that you've had trouble streaming HD with a G network. In fact, if you're playing back Blu-Ray rips, I'm surprised that you can stream them at all across a G network.

5ghz would give you a bit of a bump in bandwidth and also protect you from local intereference from things like cordless phones, microwaves, etc. That being said, it'll shorten the indoor range by about half. If we're talking cinderblock walls, it may be even more.

I don't know exactly what the capability of the devices on your network are, but if a couple of them (especially that will be close to the router or AP) are 5Ghz capable, then I'd get a simultaneous dual-band router. That way, if you have multiple people drawing from the network, you can still get (roughly) twice the bandwidth. Some people will use the 5Ghz connection and others can use the 2.4Ghz bandwidth. If you can set up the 5Ghz network to be just N, that would be ideal, because most routers lose a bit of bandwidth when you run them in mixed-mode, using b/g/n all on the same band. Your router will, literally, be running two different networks at the same time.

I have my "Media" network set up on th 5Ghz "N" only band and simulaneously stream a couple of HD movies to my PS3s that way.

The rest of the house, for internet and general network use, is on the 2.4Ghz "b/g" band since almost no available internet connections will yet tap out a good "g" signal. That way if they stream some NetFlix, Youtube or anything else, it won't take away bandwidth from the 5Ghz network. You said you don't like D-Link (I love my DIR-825), so I would otherwise recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-Wirele...8685924&sr=8-1

or

http://www.amazon.com/E3200-High-Per...8685900&sr=8-1


You'll have to have devices that are 5Ghz and N capable to take advantage of simultneous networks, though. Otherwise, just get a good 2.4Ghz "N" router. I'd recommend:

http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-...8686226&sr=8-1

or

http://www.amazon.com/XWR100-Dual-Ba...8686529&sr=8-1

or

http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-N600-W...8686632&sr=8-1

 

[imagoon]

Hi all

I currently have an ASUS WL500G and a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 with an aftermarket antenna running Tomato. I used to live in the US, where I used the ASUS as a router only with the buffalo connected as an AP only. I have since moved to Germany where I'm stuck with a crappy O2 DSL router serving out both my SIP phones and internet. I turned the wireless on that guy off and still use my Buffalo as the AP.

I built myself a HTPC, which now plugs directly into my ASUS running in bridge mode, along with my PS3. We also have about 4 other laptops, and ipad, and an ipod touch connected.

Since burning my DVD and Bluray collection to my HTPC, I noticed it's basically impossible to stream HD content to my bedroom laptop from the HTPC. The thick German cinder block walls don't help, I'm sure, although both the HTPC and bedroom laptop are not very far from the AP antenna. The kids have started streaming from the HTPC recently as well, so there will be lots of bits flying around the 192.168.x.x subnet in my house.

I just got a $100 amazon gift card for papa's day and was wondering if I might start upgrading some of my networking equipment. Will going to 802.11n help my streaming of HD content? People talk about 5ghz like it's desirable, but if it shortens the range, my kids on the 3rd floor might not be happy. However my buffalo and asus routers get replaced, I could use them together as a bridge/AP to server as a dual radio repeater just serving out a G AP.

Any advice?

FYI, running US spec gear in Germany is generally illegal in Germany. You also may see interference from other devices since it is pretty recent that they joined the "European standard" for 802.11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

Mostly because they are missing the ITU and ETSI seals.

You might be hitting in to bands that others are using.

 

[Balforth]

I've heard that some US cordless phones can interfere and are illegal, but I've never heard that the networking gear is any different. The European wifi hotspots are all accessible with our US computers using our 802.11b/g cards.

Either way, I've been running them here for a couple of years now, but I'm moving back to the states at the end of the year.

I've seen some people talking about the Buffalo WZR-HP-G300NH, however the WZR-HP-AG300H is dual band and seems to have a much faster processor and much more ram:

The G300NH uses an Atheros 9132 400Mhz CPU has 32MB flash and 64MB ram, a 3x3 MIMO antenna setup, a 2.4Ghz B/G/N radio.

The AG300H will use Atheros 7161 680Mhz CPU, 32MB flash, 256MB RAM, 2x2 MIMO setup and dual radios, 1x 2.4Ghz and 1x 5Ghz radio (dual simultaneous N)

Lots of mixed reviews on these though... it almost seems like you SHOULDN'T use the DD-WRT firmware and should revert back to the Buffalo firmware. I don't think I have any use for any of the advanced features so that's not really a deterrent.

Also, I think I would need a 2nd router to act as a bridge for my HTPC and PS3, as the PS3 wireless sucks and if I'm going to have a bridge for it, it only makes sense to use it for my HTPC as well. Not sure if the buffalo firmware allows for bridging or if the cheaper G300NH would work just as well for the bridge...

 

[Balforth]

So I think I've ruled out the Buffalo, even though it has superior CPU/RAM, it doesn't do 450Mbps. I currently don't have any devices that support 450Mbps, but if I can just make the bridge to my HTPC/PS3 capable of 450, I'll be happy.

I started looking at the Linksys E4200 and the Netgear WNDR4000. Lots of mixed reviews, but the E4200 seems to come out on top. The Trendnet TEW-692GR sounds like it will be B.A., but it's not out yet??

So I guess I'll go with the E4200... Does this seem good? If so, I need to find a 2nd device to act as a bridge. I'm assuming I won't need anything extremely fancy, beyond being capable of N and 5Ghz/450Mbps. Is any old N adapter capable of utilizing 450Mbps, or does it have to be specifically rated for it -- that is, does the bridge router have to be rated at 450Mbps, or is that only an AP rating? Any recommendations?

 

[Balforth]

hmm... just found this troubling article about the E4200

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...performance-wireless-n-router-review-followup

 

[smitbret]

hmm... just found this troubling article about the E4200

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...performance-wireless-n-router-review-followup

I read the article and while those are some alarming results, I caught myself thinking that a firmware update will probably fix both issues (loss of bandwidth/lack of IPv6). Then I scrolled down on the article comments and someone had stated that upgrading to the latest firmware apparently fixes the bandwidth drop-off.

Keep in mind, too, that there aren't any 450mbps wireless bridges at the moment, either. It might be useful to have that much aggregate bandwidth available, but I can't see any necessity for it outside of a corporate environment. Even a 1080p HD stream from a Blu-Ray with lossless multi-channel audio will come in at way under 100mbps. Even Linksys' own Linksys WET610N only supports up to (a theoretical) 300mbps. Even then, the ethernet port is 10/100, which now that I think about it, doesn't make sense and leaves a question in my mind about why have a 300mbps bridge with just a 10/100 port?

 

[Balforth]

Well, I did the deed and ordered the Linksys E4200. I realized that if I was looking for the perfect review where 100% of the people agreed that a certain router was the best, I'd never buy a router. It does seem that there is a more of a consensus for the 4200 though.

That's a good point about the 300mpbs bridge on the 10/100 port, but I guess even at 300mbps (theoretical), you won't likely see more than 100 in practice???

So here's how I want to set up my network now... I resent the fact that I have to use my O2 branded mystery manufacturer router at all, but I was thinking of leaving that as the 192.168.1.0 network, and possibly setting up my new Linksys as a seperate network... 192.168.0.0 or something, so that internet network traffic never has to see the O2 router. Does that seem smart? It adds another hop for internet traffic (which shouldn't be a big deal since they'll be directly connected sitting right next to each other), but removes the high amount of internal traffic from what could be a frail peice of hardware.

Also, I would eventually like to make my 802.11n bridge (hopefully 450mbps) one day, but for now, it would be a waste if my HTPC wasn't running on the N network... should I just buy an 802.11n PCI network card for the system for now? Any recommendations?

 

[Balforth]

Hmm, I never saw this guy before.... looks like it's just an adapter with a single ethernet port, so I'd have to use one of my existing routers as a switch to connect my PS3 and HTPC, but it's 802.11n/450mpbs.....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833156310

edit: damn never mind... it doesn't support 5ghz

 

[JackMDS]

Buffalo High Power - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833162031

Asus Dual band - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320062

Using a Wireless Router as a switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

 

[amheck]

hey guys, I'm getting ready to order a E4200 also. I hope this question may benefit some others, too. Are there any wireless adapters that you guys would recommend for the dual band 4200? I have a desktop (PCI?) and a laptop (USB?) that I think I'd like to update.

 

[Emulex]

e4200 sucks. i just sold mine. paid $89 for it. suck suck suck.

buffalo airstation is great. stock puts out 834mw on 2.4 (and 5ghz). comes with dd-wrt licensed (not unlicensed like many folks run) - cheap. $62 for 2.4ghz and $84 for 2.4/5ghz. also has its own firmware which is not bad either.

DD-WRT you can bump the power to 1watt.

has two directionals (2.4ghz model) you can pop those out they are 2dbi and put directional yagi 25dbi antennas ($15? on ebay) and thats a HUGE power gain. can do about 1 mile with a pair of those setups and it will be fast.

25dbi + 1watt exceeds FCC 50dbm rating so you might need a technician or higher ham radio license.

also the atheros chipset can go to 2.6ghz on 2.4 and up to 6ghz on 5ghz - this may be illegal as wimax sits on 2.5 but you can use some private bands (check your laws and ham licensing).

the E4200 (same as WNDR4000) sucks monkey butt compared to the buffalo WZR.

only thing more interesting is the new trendnet it does 450mbps on 2.4 AND 450 on 5ghz simul. wow. but their products are meh.

use them as an AP. build a good pfsense router. use a switch to switch traffic and life will be good.

i can prob get F&F codes for cisco outlet if you want - but only 1 per year. 30% off refurb e4200 is like $80 shipped iirc

 

[Balforth]

Ya -- There are so many mixed emotions about the E4200. I hope I don't get a lemon. I was considering buying a second one to create the 450Mbps bridge.... But I am also seeing that people are getting better real world throughput on the buffalo. Ugh... I could send the E4200 back and get 2 Buffalo's for cheaper. I love Buffalo as my WHR-HP-G54 has been a trooper, but I was really hoping for that 450Mbps bridge.

Now I'm really confused.........

 

[Balforth]

Looks like smallnetbuilder just reviewed the wzr-hp-ag300h and it wasn't great...

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/31521-buffalo-wzr-hp-ag300h-reviewed

And for as cool as it seems that it comes with DD-WRT, it seems everybody is saying it performs way worse than the Buffalo firmware.

Seems like it's just luck of the draw with who is having luck with which router. For now, I'm just going to hang on to my E4200 and grab a WNDR4000 to create my 450mbps bridge.