Considering LCD TV as monitor

[Gstanfor]

I'm getting ready to build a new system that will primarily be used for gaming.

The core specs currently look like this (prices approximate only and in Australian dollars):
$650 ATHLON64 X2 6000+ AM2
$265 Gigabyte GA-M59SLI-S5 nForce 590
$385 Corsair Micro TWIN2X2048-6400C4 DDR2 memory 2gb NV certified
$385 Corsair Micro TWIN2X2048-6400C4 DDR2 memory 2gb NV certified
$299 Thermaltake 850 Watt PSU - G80 SLI certified
$330 Coolermaster Stacker case
$975 Gainward Geforce 8800GTX
$975 Gainward Geforce 8800GTX
$365 Seagate SATA 500gb HDD SATA enterprise
$365 Seagate SATA 500gb HDD SATA enterprise
$70 Samsung DVD burner
$15 Floppy drive
$449 Windows XP Pro (Retail)
$200 Windows Vista Home Premium (Retail)

I decided I'd like an LCD TV (Yes, the sky is falling in! gstanfor is finally considering LCD's) to use as the monitor.

I have two models in mind - an Acer AT3705-MGW and a Philips Cineos 37PF9731/69

Both are 37" and 1920x1080 resolution LCD's, but the acer has a max pc res of 1280x768, where the philips is 1024x768 (using VGA/HDMI connectors).

What I'd like to know is, if I connect via tv out (component cables) instead will I get the full panel resolution and will it be clear & sharp (I've had a very brief fiddle in the past with a friends plasma and it seemed OK, but would like to be sure).

 

[Zebo]

There are plenty of 37? LCD TVs that have 1920 x 1080 resolution and dvi in. And no converters and scalers always screw up image.

 

[Gstanfor]

Maybe in the USA and Europe there are. Most affordable (and stocked) LCD TV's here have a resolution of 1366x768. 1920x1080 seems mostly reserved for 40" and above lcd's here at the moment (though its mind boggling how many of them are only 1366x768) - that's too big for what I want to do, and too expensive to boot.

 

[Zebo]

Mitsubishi LT-37132, Westinghouse LVM-37W3 ...Sharp AQUOS LC-37D90U... not in Oz?

edit: Removed naga

 

[Gstanfor]

not so you'd notice

Unfortunately, most australian merchants are slothful beasts, content to feed consumers rubbish.

 

[Zebo]

Well the Philips sure is pretty. Does it have contrast enhancing coating like "opticlear" or "xbrite"? Looks like it.

May I ask why a 37? You know those pixels are huge - must sit at least 4 ft back to avoid seeing them and screen door.

HP 3065 would be worth a look on a lot of levels.. better color being AW-IPS...93% adobe color gamet covered. better viewing angles with no shift in gamma or color...faster..better blacks..higher res meaning it's actually suitable for desktop use..has every input you can imagine.

 

[Gstanfor]

Nothing smaller has the resolution I want. The Philips does have a very watchable display (seen it in person).

Really I'm starting to think it would be easier simply to get this monitor (one of the very few big LCD monitors available - the only other one I've found is 1366x768...), I just though it might be nice to get a modern TV thrown into the mix as well, no such luck.

 

[dug777]

Nice looking rig

All it's missing is the C2Q or C2D to power it...

I'm with ya on the crappy range of LCD TVs here, i saw a Sony Bravia 1080p the other day playing a Blu-Ray and ZOMFGWTFBBQ it looked sexy, but dammit it was a 40"

 

[Gstanfor]

I'm not going to trouble myself too much over 10% performance differential dug, I'd much rather support AMD (cpu wise anyhow) than intel, I figure at this point in time intel have more than their fair share of the enthusiast market.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I'm not going to trouble myself too much over 10% performance differential dug, I'd much rather support AMD (cpu wise anyhow) than intel, I figure at this point in time intel have more than their fair share of the enthusiast market.

:thumbsup: an admirable attitude.

 

[Zebo]

Samsung 305T? Nothing is really worse than PVA tone shifting on a big screen like this.:thumbsdown:

The HP has the same size and res and a much superior panel than the Sammy 305T... it looks rather dull though on the outside.

 

[Gstanfor]

you mean this monitor?

It's a lot more expensive, but if its good I'll consider it

 

[BernardP]

If you are going to go for a 30-inch monitor, go all the way for a Dell 30-inch S-IPS monitor.

Drooling starts Here

(True computer monitor... Not a TV set... And cheaper too...)

 

[Gstanfor]

The Dell costs $2500 +shipping over here (not to mention I'd have to support a company that for many years aided & abetted intel with their monopoly efforts).
The HP is $2735 + shipping
The Samsung is $2050 + shipping.

So, what I'd like to know is what is this "PVA tone shifting" problem (I don't keep up with LCD tech) and is it worth spending half a grand to fix it?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I'm not going to trouble myself too much over 10% performance differential dug, I'd much rather support AMD (cpu wise anyhow) than intel, I figure at this point in time intel have more than their fair share of the enthusiast market.

If you don't OC it might be 10%, but once you figure in head room for both its more than 10%. Nothing against AMD, I've had mostly AMD in my rigs since the incredible T-Bird A 1000MHz, but AMD clearly makes the inferior CPU right now. Even with 1 x GTX you might be GPU limited in some games, with 2 GTX you're going to want the fastest desktop CPU available in terms of price: performance and that title belongs to Intel across the board.

The 30" Dell would definitely allow your SLI GTX to stretch their legs as mentioned, but then you lose the functionality of a multi-input 1080p HDTV. Not sure what the price range is for the 1080p HDTVs you listed, but maybe look at something like a 37" Westinghouse 1080p + a 3007WFP. Just seems like a waste for 2x GTX right now on a 1080p, although that could very well change with next-gen DX10 games.

 

[Gstanfor]

I don't overclock chizow.

The HDTV situation I find myself in is annoying (but typical for Australia sadly - you should see the state of our broadband industry). I would have quite liked TV functionality. Will keep looking, since I'm a few weeks from actually placing orders at the moment. Slightly concerned about being able to feed 2560x1600 in future games even with SLI too - CRT's still definitely have a scalability advantage.

 

[The Mailman]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I'm not going to trouble myself too much over 10% performance differential dug, I'd much rather support AMD (cpu wise anyhow) than intel, I figure at this point in time intel have more than their fair share of the enthusiast market.

agreed. i spent much of my life in intel and would like to support amd this time around

back on topic however, component may have issues

many lcd-tv's only accepth a limited resoution through component rather than vga

i know on my former LG 47", it only accepted a smaller res on component and it just resizes it to fit the screen.

on my current samsung, it accepts it....

i havnt tried component with a pc, but component with an xbox 360 @ 1080p looks awful compared to vga IMO

check out an online manual to see if it accepts 1080p@60p or anything acceptable through component - not many do

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
The HDTV situation I find myself in is annoying (but typical for Australia sadly - you should see the state of our broadband industry). I would have quite liked TV functionality. Will keep looking, since I'm a few weeks from actually placing orders at the moment. Slightly concerned about being able to feed 2560x1600 in future games even with SLI too - CRT's still definitely have a scalability advantage.

Have you considered finding a friend in the U.S. who could buy these things and ship them insured? If those prices in your OP were in USD (or are comparable to USD), that's a huge markup.

Y'know, it's surprising there isn't a website providing a "proxy buying" service like this to computer enthusiasts outside the U.S. If such a website obtained the proper reseller licenses, I wonder if this process would be legal w/ warranty support?

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I don't overclock chizow.

The HDTV situation I find myself in is annoying (but typical for Australia sadly - you should see the state of our broadband industry). I would have quite liked TV functionality. Will keep looking, since I'm a few weeks from actually placing orders at the moment. Slightly concerned about being able to feed 2560x1600 in future games even with SLI too - CRT's still definitely have a scalability advantage.

Here is something not a lot of people think about. You don't have to run 2560 X 1600 on the Dell 3007. You can drop the dimensions 1/2 and have a perfect image @ 1280 X 800. Then if needed further you could drop it to 640 X 400 (joking, somewhat...) So, I see the Dell 3007 or other 30" screens like it a win-win situation. Just something to think about...

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I don't overclock chizow.

The HDTV situation I find myself in is annoying (but typical for Australia sadly - you should see the state of our broadband industry). I would have quite liked TV functionality. Will keep looking, since I'm a few weeks from actually placing orders at the moment. Slightly concerned about being able to feed 2560x1600 in future games even with SLI too - CRT's still definitely have a scalability advantage.

Here is something not a lot of people think about. You don't have to run 2560 X 1600 on the Dell 3007. You can drop the dimensions 1/2 and have a perfect image @ 1280 X 800. Then if needed further you could drop it to 640 X 400 (joking, somewhat...) So, I see the Dell 3007 or other 30" screens like it a win-win situation. Just something to think about...

Or set 1:1 scaling w/ 1920x1200 resolution and you'll get results physically identical to a smaller LCD. The nice thing is that this can be adjusted on a per-game basis, so as newer games bring your SLI rig to its knees at 2560x1600, you can run them at 1:1 1920x1200 while the older games take up the full 30" People shy away from this for some reason--probably because they're used to analog stretching controls on CRTs.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I don't overclock chizow.

The HDTV situation I find myself in is annoying (but typical for Australia sadly - you should see the state of our broadband industry). I would have quite liked TV functionality. Will keep looking, since I'm a few weeks from actually placing orders at the moment. Slightly concerned about being able to feed 2560x1600 in future games even with SLI too - CRT's still definitely have a scalability advantage.

Here is something not a lot of people think about. You don't have to run 2560 X 1600 on the Dell 3007. You can drop the dimensions 1/2 and have a perfect image @ 1280 X 800. Then if needed further you could drop it to 640 X 400 (joking, somewhat...) So, I see the Dell 3007 or other 30" screens like it a win-win situation. Just something to think about...

Or set 1:1 scaling w/ 1900x1200 resolution and you'll get results physically identical to a smaller LCD. The nice thing is that this can be adjusted on a per-game basis, so as newer games bring your SLI rig to its knees at 2560x1600, you can run them at 1:1 1900x1200 while the older games take up the full 30" People shy away from this for some reason--probably because they're used to analog stretching controls on CRTs.

When watching a movie I would agree.... But when it comes to gaming, I need the entire screen filled. I hate 1:1 pixel mapping except when I want to run 4:3, then I love it. But, yeah, you can certainly do that if you don't mind the black bars all over.

 

[ayabe]

I honestly don't know how anyone could recommend the Dell 30" at this point, until they release a version with comparable inputs to the 2407, it's just not worth it. 37" 1080P LCD can be had for cheaper with a larger screen.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
The Dell costs $2500 +shipping over here (not to mention I'd have to support a company that for many years aided & abetted intel with their monopoly efforts).
The HP is $2735 + shipping
The Samsung is $2050 + shipping.

So, what I'd like to know is what is this "PVA tone shifting" problem (I don't keep up with LCD tech) and is it worth spending half a grand to fix it?

There's a lot more problems with the Samsung besides that. But here is what I mean:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9021/dell2007wfpwithspvapanesu5.jpg
Exacerbated over a huge 30" because eyes can actually see gamma/color different on center on screen than the horizontal xtremes of the display being so wide. Vertical color shift is evident raising my head only about 6" from about 20" away which is the difference between sitting up the chair vs. leaning back, a common position shift for a person using their PC all day. Horizontal color shift is everywhere from 2-3 ft away.

Another problem it's the slowest tech despite Samsungs..lets say "optimistic" 6ms calling of their panel - PVA is really wildly dynamic across color range going really as high as 45ms. Severe motion blur. The MVA's you are looking at in 37's are faster. IPS is much faster.

Input lag is another problem with large PVA's - They are the worst - you move you char in a game and it's not instant move but 45-60ms later - very annoying if you are sensitive to it and at all play competitively you are toast.

Bottom line. The best LCD panel technology is IPS. It has superior viewing angle behaviors to both TN and VA. It always had excellent 8 bit color reproduction. Is faster than VA but slower than TN. Used by makers who cater to image pros but it's very expensive as you see. IPS is most CRT like (even in power consumption lol) and I think moving from a highend AG-CRT you will find IPS most similar and acceptable. I just want to make your transition as pleasing as possible so I recommend the best and most suitable. Don't be like me and be RMA king returning over 20 monitors until I bought a clue, an IPS - I doubt you can play that game in Oz anyway.

Someone said get the Dell HC 3007 - Yes high gamut fast IPS and looks the best from the outside however it *only* has DVI in - strictly a desktop monitor.

Apple 30" cinema HD display with same panel as Dell and HP is even worse only allowing brightness adjustment on the PC side and DVI in.

.

 

[Gstanfor]

Ok, so it boils down to Dell or HP. Is the HP linked above worth its premium ($2735) price tag? I'd probably rather buy it than the Dell, unless the Dell is superior in a meaningful way.

 

[nZone]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I'm getting ready to build a new system that will primarily be used for gaming.

The core specs currently look like this (prices approximate only and in Australian dollars):
$650 ATHLON64 X2 6000+ AM2
$265 Gigabyte GA-M59SLI-S5 nForce 590
$385 Corsair Micro TWIN2X2048-6400C4 DDR2 memory 2gb NV certified
$385 Corsair Micro TWIN2X2048-6400C4 DDR2 memory 2gb NV certified
$299 Thermaltake 850 Watt PSU - G80 SLI certified
$330 Coolermaster Stacker case
$975 Gainward Geforce 8800GTX
$975 Gainward Geforce 8800GTX
$365 Seagate SATA 500gb HDD SATA enterprise
$365 Seagate SATA 500gb HDD SATA enterprise
$70 Samsung DVD burner
$15 Floppy drive
$449 Windows XP Pro (Retail)
$200 Windows Vista Home Premium (Retail)

I decided I'd like an LCD TV (Yes, the sky is falling in! gstanfor is finally considering LCD's) to use as the monitor.

I have two models in mind - an Acer AT3705-MGW and a Philips Cineos 37PF9731/69

Both are 37" and 1920x1080 resolution LCD's, but the acer has a max pc res of 1280x768, where the philips is 1024x768 (using VGA/HDMI connectors).

What I'd like to know is, if I connect via tv out (component cables) instead will I get the full panel resolution and will it be clear & sharp (I've had a very brief fiddle in the past with a friends plasma and it seemed OK, but would like to be sure).

could buy a used car with this setup