Considering a new HD Digital Camcorder?

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Currently about $660 shipped at Amazon.

If you are looking for a new digital video camera, I would HIGHLY recommend taking a look at Canon's HV20 camcorder. It's a great little compact camera with stellar out-of-the-box performance and tons of mods if you're into that. There is a great community over here at HV20.com:

http://www.hv20.com/

Table of Contents:
Post 1: Getting set up
Features
Required Accessories
Recommended Accessories
Other Accessories
Cliff's Notes
Post 2: More thoughts
Color correction notes
Shooting mode notes
Places to post footage
Post 3: Sample footage
Short video clips
Youtube clips
Vimeo clips
Forums with footage

Features:
-Compact size
-High Definition (1080 - 60i or 24p)
-Widescreen
-24p Cinema Mode (makes your shots look like Film!)
-3 megapixel still camera built-in
-10x optical zoom
-2.7" color LCD viewfinder
-HDMI output
-MiniDV with Firewire
-Accessory shoe
-Mic input
-Instant autofocus

On it's own, it makes a fantastic consumer camera - a lot of bang for your buck. I had the Sony HDR-HC7 HD camcorder before I got the HV20 and there's no comparison - the Sony has a few nice features like slo-mo and nightvision, but the overall image quality, 24p mode, and low-light performance of the HV20 squashes it, plus costs several hundred dollars less. Let's talk about accessories:

Required Accessories:
-Firewire cable (4-pin to 4-pin or 4-pin to 6-pin, Monoprice.com)
-43mm UV lens (protects the built-in lens)
-MiniDV tape
-MiniDV cleaner tape

You need a Firewire cable to connect it to your computer to dump footage from, as well as some kind of NLE (Windows Movie Maker or iMovie are free starters; Vegas and Final Cut Pro are good pro-level apps to play with). I consider a 43mm UV lens a requirement; if you damage your lens then you have to RMA the entire camera, but if you scratch or break the 43mm lens then you're only out six bucks.

Next you will need a MiniDV tape; you can re-use it if you want but I would recommend picking up at least 2 or 3 so that you can keep shooting as required. This is especially good if you don't have time to dump footage to your computer before shooting again. Panasonic makes some great 83 minute tapes that only cost a dollar or so more than the 63 minute tapes. They also make a MiniDV cleaner tape for about $8 (use this periodically when you get dropouts or other MiniDV errors).

Recommended Accessories:
-Spare batteries
-Carrying bag
-Tripod
-MiniSD card

For spare batteries, either go with the generic knock-offs on Amazon (super cheaper and have an A/C-Auto charger) or go with Sterlingtek. Some knock-offs have a bad reputation for not lasting as long as OEM batteries, but Sterlingtek has a very good reputation. You can also get extended batteries. Some aftermarket batteries have a little bit of space between them and the camera housing, just stick the fuzzy side of a velcro strip on the inside to prevent rattling. As far as a carrying bag goes, definitely get some kind of padded case - either a MiniDV bag or backpack or something. Pretty much any microfiber padded video bag will do; they run $15 - $30 online or locally at places like Wal-mart. Make sure you have room for spare batteries, tapes, and so on.

As far as tripods go, you'll need a fluid-head tripod to get smooth pans and tilts. A regular photographer's tripod is fine for static shots but if you want smooth movement you NEED a fluid-head tripod. Also, don't fool yourself - if you want steady shots you NEED a tripod. That's all there is to it - even with Image Stabilization turned on, you're just not going to get a steady shot by hand. It is especially noticeable in high definition where even the slightest tremble shows up. This is not a problem of only the HV20, but camcorders in general. I recommend the Velbon DV-7000 for starters ($110 on B&H Photo/Video) or the Matthews M25 if you want something a little bigger ($190 @ B&H). Any fluid-head system from Manfrotto is good as well. Good tripods are an investment and usually outlast your camera! Don't skimp - get a REAL fluid-head! The cheapest you should go is the Velbon DV-7000.

There are lots of other methods for stabilizing your shots. If you have to have some fun walking/action shots, check out Steady Cams. It's basically a hand-held system similar in concept to a tripod, but allows you to track a subject while moving. This is great for following sports games, running through hallways, following a person, etc. They are typically very expensive, but you can build or buy a very cheap model called the Poor Man's Steadicam. You can build it yourself for $14 or buy one pre-made for $60 shipped. If you use Final Cut Pro 6, you can use the new SmoothCam filter to stabilize your shots in post-production. Check out the website for more info as well as video clips:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/

If you are just an amateur shooter like I am, you will probably enjoy a Gorillapod. A Gorillapod is basically a mini-tripod with flexible legs - you can wrap it around any available solid surface such as a fence, a post, and so on. They have a few different models; if you plan on using the HV20 stock then get the SLR version (max 1.75 pounds), but if you plan on adding (heavy) accessories down the road then go for the SLR-Zoom model (6.6 pounds). They go for $55 or less. Here's the website:

http://www.joby.com/products/gorillapod/

The HV20 also has a built-in 3 megapixel camera and can record images to a MiniSD card. I would recommend getting some kind of MiniSD card, no matter what the size - I don't really use the camcorder's camera feature that often, but if you want to snap something it's really handy to have. Be sure to get one with an SD adapter so that you can fit it in normal card readers. I happened to have a spare 4gb MiniSD card, so I can confirm that cards up to 4gb will work.

Other Accessories:
-External microphone
-Larger LCD display
-HDMI capture system (4:2:2)
-Lenses
-35mm adapter
-Quickstream DV
-Dollies
-Grabit Pack

An external microphone can greatly increase sound quality (audio is 50% of any film!). The #1 recommend mic is the Rode VideoMic (not the Stereo Mic), which retails for about $149 anywhere. You can expand this with a boom pole for getting vocals (if you wanna get crazy!) and a dead cat (wind muffler) to cut down on outdoor wind noise. If you want to use an XLR mic, the Beachtek DXA-2s sports dual XLR inputs for $180. If you want to do interviews or news-type stuff, then check out the Audio Technica ATR-25s lavalier mic, which is less than $30 shipped! You can use two of these with a splitter to get stereo (useful if are interviewing someone, so you can both wear one). I have these mics and I would have paid triple for them easily, they're that good! Amazon.com has them for $27:

http://www.amazon.com/AUDIO-TE...&qid=1201408581&sr=1-3

The HV20 has a nice 2.7" flip-out LCD screen, but you can attach a larger screen using HDMI or video out (such as Composite). This is especially useful if you need to do focus work, use a 35mm adapter, or use a macro lens. You can use a regular computer LCD monitor using an HDMI-to-DVI adapter; my 24" Dell LCD works great in a pinch. If you're going to get one, get one with HDMI or DVI that is at least 720p so that you can make good use of the sharp HD focus. There's a good thread on building a DIY HD monitor using a 10" Samsung panel in this thread:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=3448

The HV20 outputs full 4:2:2, so if you want to skip using a MiniDV tape (also cuts out motor noise!) and avoid HDV compression, you can do it with an HDMI capture system. It's not clear whether the output is 1440x1080 (HDV uses that compression then expands it to 1920x1080) or 1920x1080, but the output is definitely 4:2:2 and looks better than HDV. This is especially important if you're actually going to use the HV20 for an indie film or if you're into grading (color correction). The cheapest option is to use an Intensity HDMI capture card from Black Magic. There's a great thread here on building a capture system; you'll need a RAID array to get the ~120 MB/sec required for Uncompressed HD capture!

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=906

Here's a link to the Intensity card: ($249 card has HDMI in, $349 card has HDMI preview out - see the LCD display note above)

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

The HV20 has a 43mm thread on the front, so in addition to slapping a UV lens on there you can add lenses. Canon sells Wide-Angle and Telephoto lenses. You can also get macro lenses and probably fish-eye lenses. I personally use a cheap Merkury lens, which is a combo macro/wide-angle and sells for only $27 on Amazon! It's not the best, but for the price it's a steal! Canon's wide-angle lens, the WD-H43, retails for $200, so if you just want a lens set to get your hands dirty, the Merkury is the perfect accessory:

http://www.amazon.com/Merkury-...&qid=1201409333&sr=1-2

But that's not all the lenses! You can also use 35mm lenses using a special adapter! Static and vibrating 35mm adapters are available to let you use Canon, Nikon, etc. 35mm lenses. This gives you great depth-of-field (DOF) to give your shots a real "film" look! You can build one yourself (difficult but doable!) or buy one. Vibrating lenses are the best and retail for about $1,000. Note that the adapter inverts the image, so you'll either need to do the flip hack for the LCD viewfinder and flip your image in post or else buy a flip module (another $400 - $500 or so). Add in lenses, a follow focus, a rail system, a mattebox, etc., and you're hitting the $2,000 mark easily. But, for a few thousand dollars you get a 1080p system that rivals many higher-end cameras in a more compact form! RedRock, Cinevate, and several other small companies produce these systems. My favorite is the Brevis from Cinevate:

http://www.cinevate.com/website/index.php

If you're looking for an easy way to capture footage and have money to burn, check out the Quickstream DV from MCETech. They sell SSD-based Firewire recorders that you can use in place of or in conjunction with tape. The advantages are (1) no tape noise and (2) straight-to-file recording. The big deal is that you don't have to deal with tapes - you just plug it into your computer and drag and drop the files to your hard drive - no rewinding, no capturing, just "easy". It comes at a price though - they are fairly expensive; their top-end 6-hour model goes for $1,000. Here's the link:

http://www.mcetech.com/quickstreamdv/index.html

You may also want to consider some sort of dolly if you need smooth moving shots. A dolly is basically any kind of tripod system with wheels. It can be a tripod with casters, a plywood board with skateboard wheels, whatever. You can build it yourself (very cheaply!) or buy one (very expensive!). Just do a google and check out youtube for info on DIY models. There are also skater dollies, which are small table-top models that allow you to get close to objects and models and do straight shots, circular shots, etc. They are SUPER expensive to buy (like $3,000) and can be difficult to build for a precision model, but you can build a cheap, easy one out of wood without too much difficulty. Back to regular dollies, there's a guy on Youtube that sells a quality homebuilt model for about $300 (insanely reasonable compared to commercial variants and if you're not into DIY), here's some videos so you can get a general idea if what dollies do:

http://youtube.com/results?sea...ep+dolly&search=Search

Last but not least, my latest toys: a Grabit Pack. This is like a fanny pack that looks like a toolbelt. It actually straps on your thigh! It costs about $25 and has room for lenses, batteries, tapes, and small mics. It looks fairly techie and you won't be embarrassed to wear it (no guarantee that you're wife won't laugh at you anyway). It was made by a guy who does video-related work and I really like mine:

http://www.grabitpack.com/

Cliff's Notes:
1. Save yourself the headache and just buy a Canon HV20
2. Get a 43mm lens, tapes, a cleaner tape, and a Firewire cable at BARE minimum
3. Invest in a good fluid-head tripod, get some kind of bag, and pick up at least some cheap Amazon aftermarket batteries
4. Go have FUN!! :D
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,691
7,291
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Some more thoughts:

Color correction - definitely incorporate this into your workflow! Grading can make an average shot look spectacular! In fact, if you watch the behind the scenes, un-edited shots on movies, you can see that they usually just use regular lighting and then darken it or colorize it however they want. It's really neat! Since I'm an Apple fan, I would suggest Apple's Final Cut Studio 2 Suite, which includes Apple's Color utility. iMovie 08 has some basic color correction and editing tools, all of which are instantly applied, which is pretty neat.

There are two shooting modes: 60i and 24p. 60i is the normal camcorder look and is especially good for fast-moving/motion shots. 24p is more for if you want that "film" look (I shoot in 24p 99% of the time). Be sure to research the proper importing workflow for your specific NLE, since you'll need to use the proper settings to import 60i or 24p correctly.

Youtube is a great place to share movies quickly. However, the Canon HV20 is a High Definition camcorder, so it's best viewed in High Def! Check out Vimeo - it's like Youtube for HD! And it's FREE! If you want to upload a clip, just use a quickie-file site like Rapidshare. This way you can upload a large file without having to compress it for web streaming. Here's a link to Vimeo:

http://www.vimeo.com/
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
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Looks like a nice camera, but how are we supposed to see how the high-def footage looks when it's being displayed in a low-def internet video?
 

AliasX

Senior member
Jan 29, 2006
508
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I bought one the day it came out for $1100, and boy have I loved it. However, in one of those video clips the camera stays nearly dead steady while someone is walking and holding it. Whenever I walk with mine it jitters quite a bit... Every time my foot touches the ground there is a noticeable rough jitter in the image. Is there some steady feature I am missing that eliminates this?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,691
7,291
136
Check out my third post...Vimeo has 720p footage and some of the forum posts have higher-rez stuff.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,691
7,291
136
Originally posted by: AliasX
I bought one the day it came out for $1100, and boy have I loved it. However, in one of those video clips the camera stays nearly dead steady while someone is walking and holding it. Whenever I walk with mine it jitters quite a bit... Every time my foot touches the ground there is a noticeable rough jitter in the image. Is there some steady feature I am missing that eliminates this?

Nah...there are several tricks to getting a stable shot. You can use a dolly, which will give a really smooth shot. If you already have footage, then use a filter like SmoothCam in Final Cut Pro - that will even out your shot perfectly. You can also use a steadicam like a Merlin or Glidecam to get smooth follow shots. There are a lot of tricks out there, but I prefer the software solution simply because you don't have to do any complex or expensive hardware setup - you can just zap some footage shot with your Poor Man's Steadycam with the SmoothCam filter and get results that look as good as if you had used a real $800+ steadycam.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
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Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: AliasX
I bought one the day it came out for $1100, and boy have I loved it. However, in one of those video clips the camera stays nearly dead steady while someone is walking and holding it. Whenever I walk with mine it jitters quite a bit... Every time my foot touches the ground there is a noticeable rough jitter in the image. Is there some steady feature I am missing that eliminates this?

Nah...there are several tricks to getting a stable shot. You can use a dolly, which will give a really smooth shot. If you already have footage, then use a filter like SmoothCam in Final Cut Pro - that will even out your shot perfectly. You can also use a steadicam like a Merlin or Glidecam to get smooth follow shots. There are a lot of tricks out there, but I prefer the software solution simply because you don't have to do any complex or expensive hardware setup - you can just zap some footage shot with your Poor Man's Steadycam with the SmoothCam filter and get results that look as good as if you had used a real $800+ steadycam.
Adding, a couple of folks at DVInfo talked about this and part of it may be the OIS' fault in the HV20. If you want to walk with any camera, a steady unit is a must. But know that it takes about a 50 hour investment to get proficient with it.

Edit - BTW Kaido, nice review for the AT guys. Well, except for the FCP part ;) (Apple fanboy :p )
/use Avid Liquid
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,691
7,291
136
Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: AliasX
I bought one the day it came out for $1100, and boy have I loved it. However, in one of those video clips the camera stays nearly dead steady while someone is walking and holding it. Whenever I walk with mine it jitters quite a bit... Every time my foot touches the ground there is a noticeable rough jitter in the image. Is there some steady feature I am missing that eliminates this?

Nah...there are several tricks to getting a stable shot. You can use a dolly, which will give a really smooth shot. If you already have footage, then use a filter like SmoothCam in Final Cut Pro - that will even out your shot perfectly. You can also use a steadicam like a Merlin or Glidecam to get smooth follow shots. There are a lot of tricks out there, but I prefer the software solution simply because you don't have to do any complex or expensive hardware setup - you can just zap some footage shot with your Poor Man's Steadycam with the SmoothCam filter and get results that look as good as if you had used a real $800+ steadycam.
Adding, a couple of folks at DVInfo talked about this and part of it may be the OIS' fault in the HV20. If you want to walk with any camera, a steady unit is a must. But know that it takes about a 50 hour investment to get proficient with it.

Edit - BTW Kaido, nice review for the AT guys. Well, except for the FCP part ;) (Apple fanboy :p )
/use Avid Liquid

Yeah, that's why I recommend just using a SmoothCam filter or the like - you let your computer do all the heavy lifting and save the expense and training time of buying and learning how to use a Steadicam. Plus you don't look weird walking around with a big balancing contraption ;)

I don't think the problem is the OIS at all...the image stabilization overall is much better than I've seen on previous cameras I've used (SD MiniDV & Hi8 camcorders). It's just where the state of technology is - they're pretty close to eliminating hand jitter, but it's not quite there yet. What we really need to fix it is a large sensor like the RED camera has, with some instant-auto-processing onboard like SmoothCam that can keep your stuff in 1080p format but give you a perfectly steady hand-held image. Of course that would require more processing power than I think we can do on a handheld camera right now :)

Oh also, if you are using a tripod, be sure to turn off all image stabilization stuff on the camera - it compensates for movement and so it will give you a jerky start if you begin panning. If you turn it off, then it will just be a nice, smooth pan.

Apple fanboy my eye :D
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
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Originally posted by: Kaido
Yeah, that's why I recommend just using a SmoothCam filter or the like - you let your computer do all the heavy lifting and save the expense and training time of buying and learning how to use a Steadicam. Plus you don't look weird walking around with a big balancing contraption ;)

Oh also, if you are using a tripod, be sure to turn off all image stabilization stuff on the camera - it compensates for movement and so it will give you a jerky start if you begin panning. If you turn it off, then it will just be a nice, smooth pan.
Wierd? Not. COOOLLL. And never fix in post what you could have shot right the first time :D I have footage I shot of marching bands in parades. You just hope that the horses are behind the band while you are walking backwards.

Ditto on IS on a tripod. It can cause a slight "stiction" like whip at the beginning of a pan. But if you use a monopod, have it on.

RED One has no IS that I am aware of at the moment. I would guess Scarlett might implement it though.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,691
7,291
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Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: Kaido
Yeah, that's why I recommend just using a SmoothCam filter or the like - you let your computer do all the heavy lifting and save the expense and training time of buying and learning how to use a Steadicam. Plus you don't look weird walking around with a big balancing contraption ;)

Oh also, if you are using a tripod, be sure to turn off all image stabilization stuff on the camera - it compensates for movement and so it will give you a jerky start if you begin panning. If you turn it off, then it will just be a nice, smooth pan.
Wierd? Not. COOOLLL. And never fix in post what you could have shot right the first time :D I have footage I shot of marching bands in parades. You just hope that the horses are behind the band while you are walking backwards.

Ditto on IS on a tripod. It can cause a slight "stiction" like whip at the beginning of a pan. But if you use a monopod, have it on.

RED One has no IS that I am aware of at the moment. I would guess Scarlett might implement it though.

Hehehe :)

As for the Scarlet, April can't come soon enough...
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,970
1,679
126
my HV20 won't load tapes anymore :(

IIRC, i got it about 15 months ago so it is out of warranty.

it just beeps five times when I put a tape in (tried 2 brand new tapes) and then ejects the tape....when there is no tape inside and I start it up, it also just beeps 5 times. also tried the reset button and that didn't help either...
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
51,691
7,291
136
Originally posted by: spacejamz
my HV20 won't load tapes anymore :(

IIRC, i got it about 15 months ago so it is out of warranty.

it just beeps five times when I put a tape in (tried 2 brand new tapes) and then ejects the tape....when there is no tape inside and I start it up, it also just beeps 5 times. also tried the reset button and that didn't help either...

Could be the brand, what tapes are you using? See if you can try something else. Otherwise, two options:

1. Send to a Canon repair facility
2. Buy a Firestore or QuickstreamDV unit (Firewire to Hard Drive recorder units)
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,970
1,679
126
any HV20 owners looking for some batteries? I have two brand new ones plus two others that I have 'babied' (I only charged them when they are nearly empty - I know that you don't have to do this anymore, but old habits die hard. These batteries hold a charge much longer than the stock battery that came with the camera)...

$50 shipped for all 4 batteries and a rapid charger...pic includes the original battery which isn't for sale yet...canonHV20Batteries.jpg

PM if interested so we can work out the details...heat is below and ebay feedback is here (123-0-0).
I know FS/FT forum is that way, but since this would only be of interest to HV20 owners, I figure it would be okay to post this here....if the mods don't agree, then please delete this...

I just pulled the trigger on a Sony high def camcorder w/ 120GB Hard Drive...Since 2000, I have only used Sony digital cameras (DSC-S50, DSC-F707, DSC-F828, DSC-R1, DSC-U20, DSC-T9, Alpha 100 and just got an Alpha 350 - also have a TRV22 camcorder) and have had only one problem with the U20 which was fixed under warranty.