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Conservatives, why do you vote against intelligence in party leaders?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ion-is-a-fact/2011/08/23/gIQAuIFUYJ_blog.html

Attention Governor Perry: Evolution is a fact
Q. Texas governor and GOP candidate Rick Perry, at a campaign event this week, told a boy that evolution is ”just a theory” with “gaps” and that in Texas they teach “both creationism and evolution.” Perry later added “God is how we got here.” According to a 2009 Gallup study , only 38 percent of Americans say they believe in evolution. If a majority of Americans are skeptical or unsure about evolution, should schools teach it as a mere “theory”? Why is evolution so threatening to religion?



A. There is nothing unusual about Governor Rick Perry. Uneducated fools can be found in every country and every period of history, and they are not unknown in high office. What is unusual about today’s Republican party (I disavow the ridiculous ‘GOP’ nickname, because the party of Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt has lately forfeited all claim to be considered ‘grand’) is this: In any other party and in any other country, an individual may occasionally rise to the top in spite of being an uneducated ignoramus. In today’s Republican Party ‘in spite of’ is not the phrase we need. Ignorance and lack of education are positive qualifications, bordering on obligatory. Intellect, knowledge and linguistic mastery are mistrusted by Republican voters, who, when choosing a president, would apparently prefer someone like themselves over someone actually qualified for the job.

Any other organization -- a big corporation, say, or a university, or a learned society - -when seeking a new leader, will go to immense trouble over the choice. The CVs of candidates and their portfolios of relevant experience are meticulously scrutinized, their publications are read by a learned committee, references are taken up and scrupulously discussed, the candidates are subjected to rigorous interviews and vetting procedures. Mistakes are still made, but not through lack of serious effort.

The population of the United States is more than 300 million and it includes some of the best and brightest that the human species has to offer, probably more so than any other country in the world. There is surely something wrong with a system for choosing a leader when, given a pool of such talent and a process that occupies more than a year and consumes billions of dollars, what rises to the top of the heap is George W Bush. Or when the likes of Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin can be mentioned as even remote possibilities.

A politician’s attitude to evolution is perhaps not directly important in itself. It can have unfortunate consequences on education and science policy but, compared to Perry’s and the Tea Party’s pronouncements on other topics such as economics, taxation, history and sexual politics, their ignorance of evolutionary science might be overlooked. Except that a politician’s attitude to evolution, however peripheral it might seem, is a surprisingly apposite litmus test of more general inadequacy. This is because unlike, say, string theory where scientific opinion is genuinely divided, there is about the fact of evolution no doubt at all. Evolution is a fact, as securely established as any in science, and he who denies it betrays woeful ignorance and lack of education, which likely extends to other fields as well. Evolution is not some recondite backwater of science, ignorance of which would be pardonable. It is the stunningly simple but elegant explanation of our very existence and the existence of every living creature on the planet. Thanks to Darwin, we now understand why we are here and why we are the way we are. You cannot be ignorant of evolution and be a cultivated and adequate citizen of today.

Darwin’s idea is arguably the most powerful ever to occur to a human mind. The power of a scientific theory may be measured as a ratio: the number of facts that it explains divided by the number of assumptions it needs to postulate in order to do the explaining. A theory that assumes most of what it is trying to explain is a bad theory. That is why the creationist or ‘intelligent design’ theory is such a rotten theory.

What any theory of life needs to explain is functional complexity. Complexity can be measured as statistical improbability, and living things are statistically improbable in a very particular direction: the direction of functional efficiency. The body of a bird is not just a prodigiously complicated machine, with its trillions of cells - each one in itself a marvel of miniaturized complexity - all conspiring together to make muscle or bone, kidney or brain. Its interlocking parts also conspire to make it good for something - in the case of most birds, good for flying. An aero-engineer is struck dumb with admiration for the bird as flying machine: its feathered flight-surfaces and ailerons sensitively adjusted in real time by the on-board computer which is the brain; the breast muscles, which are the engines, the ligaments, tendons and lightweight bony struts all exactly suited to the task. And the whole machine is immensely improbable in the sense that, if you randomly shook up the parts over and over again, never in a million years would they fall into the right shape to fly like a swallow, soar like a vulture, or ride the oceanic up-draughts like a wandering albatross. Any theory of life has to explain how the laws of physics can give rise to a complex flying machine like a bird or a bat or a pterosaur, a complex swimming machine like a tarpon or a dolphin, a complex burrowing machine like a mole, a complex climbing machine like a monkey, or a complex thinking machine like a person.

Darwin explained all of this with one brilliantly simple idea - natural selection, driving gradual evolution over immensities of geological time. His is a good theory because of the huge ratio of what it explains (all the complexity of life) divided by what it needs to assume (simply the nonrandom survival of hereditary information through many generations). The rival theory to explain the functional complexity of life - creationism - is about as bad a theory as has ever been proposed. What it postulates (an intelligent designer) is even more complex, even more statistically improbable than what it explains. In fact it is such a bad theory it doesn’t deserve to be called a theory at all, and it certainly doesn’t deserve to be taught alongside evolution in science classes.

The simplicity of Darwin’s idea, then, is a virtue for three reasons. First, and most important, it is the signature of its immense power as a theory, when compared with the mass of disparate facts that it explains - everything about life including our own existence. Second, it makes it easy for children to understand (in addition to the obvious virtue of being true!), which means that it could be taught in the early years of school. And finally, it makes it extremely beautiful, one of the most beautiful ideas anyone ever had as well as arguably the most powerful. To die in ignorance of its elegance, and power to explain our own existence, is a tragic loss, comparable to dying without ever having experienced great music, great literature, or a beautiful sunset.

There are many reasons to vote against Rick Perry. His fatuous stance on the teaching of evolution in schools is perhaps not the first reason that springs to mind. But maybe it is the most telling litmus test of the other reasons, and it seems to apply not just to him but, lamentably, to all the likely contenders for the Republican nomination. The ‘evolution question’ deserves a prominent place in the list of questions put to candidates in interviews and public debates during the course of the coming election.

Dawkin's makes a good point about the current state of the Republican party. Why is it that as a Republican, Tea Partier, or other type of conservative you *must* reject evolution and science in general? How can you expect the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth to be able to actually lead, if they can't understand basic science, deductive reasoning, critical thinking, and the scientific method that is are the reasons why we have become an advanced species (advanced compared to other species on Earth that is)? How can we honestly expect Congress, the POTUS, SCOTUS, and others at all levels of government to be able to be effective leaders if we can't expect them to be the best and brightest?

I really would like to know from any Republican, Tea Partier, or other conservative what it is about these intellectually inept fools that you see as reasons to vote for them. Is it because you just hate liberals, Democrats, etc that much? Is it because of their other policies that they hold? Something else?
 
People are not asking for proper experience or intelligence. They want the person that promises the biggest TURKEY :thumbsdown:


Note I stated people; not political party.
 
Im fiscally conservative and a agnostic athiest who believes in evolution. You are generalizing too much. Its not my fault only 38% are enlightened enough 😛
 
Intelligent people have moved past this argument that evolution nullifies the idea of a creator and a creator nullifies the idea of evolution.

Some people have a tendency to want to generalize and polarize arguments, this thread being evidence of that.

Why does evolution have to preclude a creator though and vice versa? Dawkins shows as much blind faith in his beliefs as any religious nut i've ever seen. In the meantime, let's just teach science class properly , expose kids to evolution, and teach history properly, which exposes kids to religion, and stop trying to censor information on either part of human history.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ion-is-a-fact/2011/08/23/gIQAuIFUYJ_blog.html



Dawkin's makes a good point about the current state of the Republican party. Why is it that as a Republican, Tea Partier, or other type of conservative you *must* reject evolution and science in general? How can you expect the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth to be able to actually lead, if they can't understand basic science, deductive reasoning, critical thinking, and the scientific method that is are the reasons why we have become an advanced species (advanced compared to other species on Earth that is)? How can we honestly expect Congress, the POTUS, SCOTUS, and others at all levels of government to be able to be effective leaders if we can't expect them to be the best and brightest?

I really would like to know from any Republican, Tea Partier, or other conservative what it is about these intellectually inept fools that you see as reasons to vote for them. Is it because you just hate liberals, Democrats, etc that much? Is it because of their other policies that they hold? Something else?

I'm a catholic and tend to vote republican. I have no problem with evolution or science, and I don't understand why some christians see it as a threat to their belief in God. Scientific arguments do not address philosophical issues, and there's no reason why the two have to be mutually exclusive. However, that rebuke goes to atheists as well, who do not limit their views on evolutions strictly to the domain of science, but also use it to try and disprove God's existence.

This isn't about intellect. This is about an age-old debate. Evolution is a scientific concept that has been leveraged for its utility in the atheist-theist debate, with the OPs argument as the atheist's primary weapon: evolution disproves God, and anyone who thinks otherwise in unintellectual. Ironically, that is a thoroughly unintellectual position to hold. Intellectuals would think twice before casually dismissing the beliefs of the vast majority of human beings throughout history as nothing more than a particularly pervasive superstition.
 
I'm a catholic and tend to vote republican. I have no problem with evolution or science, and I don't understand why some christians see it as a threat to their belief in God. Scientific arguments do not address philosophical issues, and there's no reason why the two have to be mutually exclusive. However, that rebuke goes to atheists as well, who do not limit their views on evolutions strictly to the domain of science, but also use it to try and disprove God's existence.
While evolution doesn't try to explain the genesis of life, evolution says life took millions of years to get to the point where it is today. Religion says God created the universe in much less time.
 
A true conservative on this topic. Not these crap-ass politicians that like to drown us in meaningless minutia and keep our eyes off the corruption.

Question “Allow me to clarify. Many people mistakenly confuse actual evolution with abiogenesis, or life coming from inanimate matter. Evolution is not a theory of creation. It is a theory encompassing genetic drift and selection, and describing changes in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. Do you accept evolution in this regard as the foundation upon which nearly all biological knowledge is based, or do you truly believe change within species from generation to generation does not occur?”




Ron Paul: I don’t know. I have no idea, there is no proof that it does. I mean nobody shows the actual body skeleton or the genetics of somebody that transitioned from a more primitive primate to the human being. This sounds like the place for it to be discussed. But I happen to be in politics. The politician doesn’t need to be involved with this and impose his views. Like I said before, you don’t want public education because one group has to fight with the other one to present their views. So we have private schools who teach the fact that creation came from a burst of energy coming from… we don’t know. We have faith in where it came from. Well, I have faith that it came, but I don’t know where it came from. But that doesn’t make sense; it couldn’t have been some creator that did this. I think this whole idea should be like a hobby because it doesn’t change the nature. The only thing that changes the nature of our life is our understanding about what personal liberty is and restraining the government and making sure we have a government that will never restrain you in making the discussion on these topics. And if you have scientific proof that you think has to get out there and you want to be an absolutist on evolution and you know exactly where everything came from and where everything is going and you have that much knowledge, so be it. Other people like myself just have too many things to worry about. I worry more about things like auditing the Federal Reserve than I do about worrying about some of these other things. But I can understand the interest and that’s great, but just keep the politicians and the government out of it.
 
What's important is if you could sit down and have a beer with this person. At least that's what everybody liked about Bu, Bu, Bu, Bush.
 
Intelligent people have moved past this argument that evolution nullifies the idea of a creator and a creator nullifies the idea of evolution.

Some people have a tendency to want to generalize and polarize arguments, this thread being evidence of that.

Why does evolution have to preclude a creator though and vice versa? Dawkins shows as much blind faith in his beliefs as any religious nut i've ever seen. In the meantime, let's just teach science class properly , expose kids to evolution, and teach history properly, which exposes kids to religion, and stop trying to censor information on either part of human history.
Very well said.

How can you be agnostic and athiest? The two conflict.
Um . . . He has no opinion about what he doesn't believe?

Wait - he has no opinion on what kind of Creator doesn't exist?

A true conservative on this topic. Not these crap-ass politicians that like to drown us in meaningless minutia and keep our eyes off the corruption.
Never thought I'd say this, but GO RON PAUL!

That's so simple, elegant and practical that I can't believe it came from a politician.
 
While evolution doesn't try to explain the genesis of life, evolution says life took millions of years to get to the point where it is today. Religion says God created the universe in much less time.

Correction: A literal translation of the bible has been construed by retards to maintain that God created the earth in whatever ridiculous about of time. I don't subscribe to that in the slightest.

A major problem I have with some sects of Christians is that they tend to take the bible so literally as almost to idolize it, and that is dangerous. I actually once confronted an evangelical guy preaching on a soapbox in front of LSU's student union with exactly that issue. God is not contained in one book.
 
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Correction: A literal translation of the bible has been construed by retards to maintain that God created the earth in whatever ridiculous about of time. I don't subscribe to that in the slightest.

A major problem I have with some sects of Christians is that they tend to take the bible so literally as almost to idolize it, and that is dangerous. I actually once confronted an evangelical guy preaching on a soapbox in front of LSU's student union with exactly that issue. God is not contained in one book.

i really don't understand why some christians believe that they MUST accept creationism or else :thumbsdown:. I guess in the northeast catholics and mainline protestants dont' really adhere to that belief but didn't realize it's so widespread in the south
 
I'm a catholic and tend to vote republican. I have no problem with evolution or science, and I don't understand why some christians see it as a threat to their belief in God. Scientific arguments do not address philosophical issues, and there's no reason why the two have to be mutually exclusive. However, that rebuke goes to atheists as well, who do not limit their views on evolutions strictly to the domain of science, but also use it to try and disprove God's existence.

This isn't about intellect. This is about an age-old debate. Evolution is a scientific concept that has been leveraged for its utility in the atheist-theist debate, with the OPs argument as the atheist's primary weapon: evolution disproves God, and anyone who thinks otherwise in unintellectual. Ironically, that is a thoroughly unintellectual position to hold. Intellectuals would think twice before casually dismissing the beliefs of the vast majority of human beings throughout history as nothing more than a particularly pervasive superstition.

You should re-read the OP. He isn't maligning Perry for believing in God in spite of the truth of evolution, but for not believing in evolution. The idea that evolution doesn't disprove God is a bit off topic here.

I also have a particular problem with Perry's so-called "argument" against evolution: that it's "just a theory." That reflects roughly a 7th grade mastery of basic concepts in science. I think it's around 7th grade general science where you learn that "theory" in science has a special meaning and it isn't the common parlance where "theory" means something conjectural and/or unproven. Either Perry doesn't understand this in which case he is shockingly ignorant for a supposedly intelligent and well educated public servant, or he's quite dishonest.

- wolf
 
Correction: A literal translation of the bible has been construed by retards to maintain that God created the earth in whatever ridiculous about of time. I don't subscribe to that in the slightest.

A major problem I have with some sects of Christians is that they tend to take the bible so literally as almost to idolize it, and that is dangerous. I actually once confronted an evangelical guy preaching on a soapbox in front of LSU's student union with exactly that issue. God is not contained in one book.
Lets take the Commandments. "Thou shalt not kill." Even if someone is trying to do you harm, you can't kill them? Or "Thou shalt not lie." What if your wife asks you "Does this dress make me look fat?" or someone was being nice and cooked something food you and it sucks ass, should you tell them "This tastes awful."?
 
We have to add that moron from Oklahoma to the discussion, it's not fair to just bash Perry for his anti-scientific views.

Religion has been the source of nearly every major military conflict on this planet, and people fear that science somehow isn't compatible with religion.

It's truly a sad reflection on us if 38% of the population doesn't believe in evolution though.
 
You should re-read the OP. He isn't maligning Perry for believing in God in spite of the truth of evolution, but for not believing in evolution. The idea that evolution doesn't disprove God is a bit off topic here.

I also have a particular problem with Perry's so-called "argument" against evolution: that it's "just a theory." That reflects roughly a 7th grade mastery of basic concepts in science. I think it's around 7th grade general science where you learn that "theory" in science has a special meaning and it isn't the common parlance where "theory" means something conjectural and/or unproven. Either Perry doesn't understand this in which case he is shockingly ignorant for a supposedly intelligent and well educated public servant, or he's quite dishonest.

- wolf

Dawkin's is all about disproving religion through evolution, so it is material to the discussion.

Seems like you might be slightly mistaken on what scientific theory actually means though. It cannot be distilled into a simple equation like scientific laws which can explain our observations. It is an explanation that is supported by a strong body of evidence and as such has yet to be disproved.

Full disclosure: I do subscribe to the theory of evolution 🙂
 
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