Conservatives: Do you feel like you're losing the war?

[monovillage]

You don't remember all those 'emergency supplemental' bills that kept getting passed every few months? That's because the costs of the Iraq war weren't included in the budget.

For examples of this:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/05/content_7569827.htm

Sorry, but the time span was 2000-2006, not 2008 after Democrats had taken over.

 

[fskimospy]

Sorry, but the time span was 2000-2006, not 2008 after Democrats had taken over.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that you don't believe the Iraq War was off budget from 200(3?) to 2006? Or that you don't believe it was off budget after? Either way, I have links.

Pre 2006 - http://reliefweb.int/node/168698

Post 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._T..._Iraq_Accountability_Appropriations_Act,_2007

These costs were moved on budget with Obama's first budget. (well, at least the vast majority of them were, I'm not up on all the details)

 

[Ausm]

I never saw a War the Right couldn't get behind.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I never saw a War the Right couldn't get behind.

Obama went to war without Congressional approval. Times are a changing.

 

[fskimospy]

Obama went to war without Congressional approval. Times are a changing.

Democrats have a long history of military engagement with limited congressional approval. Your choice of song was pretty good however, as the first big one of those in the modern era was definitely the creeping engagement in Vietnam and the Dylan song is from 1964.

Whether or not Democratic presidents have engaged in this however, the American right is generally more supportive of military action I believe.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Democrats have a long history of military engagement with limited congressional approval. Your choice of song was pretty good however, as the first big one of those in the modern era was definitely the creeping engagement in Vietnam and the Dylan song is from 1964.

Whether or not Democratic presidents have engaged in this however, the American right is generally more supportive of military action I believe.

I believe that is was the Left who supported the Libyan War...not the Right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCWdCKPtnYE

 

[zsdersw]

I believe that is was the Left who supported the Libyan War...not the Right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCWdCKPtnYE

... which does not refute or invalidate what he said. "Generally more supportive of military action" doesn't mean always.

I also suspect that if it was Bush or a Republican president who authorized military action in Libya there wouldn't have been any criticism about it from the right.

 

[monovillage]

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying that you don't believe the Iraq War was off budget from 200(3?) to 2006? Or that you don't believe it was off budget after? Either way, I have links.

Pre 2006 - http://reliefweb.int/node/168698

Post 2006 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._T..._Iraq_Accountability_Appropriations_Act,_2007

These costs were moved on budget with Obama's first budget. (well, at least the vast majority of them were, I'm not up on all the details)

I was hoping for reasonable charts that show the difference between the Bush budgets and the Obama budgets since the claim was that Obama was being transparent and Bush was hiding the information.

 

[fskimospy]

I was hoping for reasonable charts that show the difference between the Bush budgets and the Obama budgets since the claim was that Obama was being transparent and Bush was hiding the information.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'hiding' the information. The emergency supplementals were done in an open manner, but those appropriations weren't included in the defense budgets for those years. I'm not going to go through and find the exact numbers per year, but seriously this is not disputed information.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

... which does not refute or invalidate what he said. "Generally more supportive of military action" doesn't mean always.

I also suspect that if it was Bush or a Republican president who authorized military action in Libya there wouldn't have been any criticism about it from the right.

I would have...especially if he violated the War Powers Act. On the other hand...you can bet the farm that the Libs would have screamed bloody murder. Am I right?

 

[Ausm]

Obama went to war without Congressional approval. Times are a changing.

I didn't see any Right Wingers protesting either....

 

[sm625]

Conservatives are losing the war. Mainly because most of them dont even know what conservatism is. They just latch onto guns gays and god and forget that conservative vs liberal is all about more federal government power (liberal) vs less federal government power (conservatism). In most cases it is merely an argument between liberal and more liberal. Just take these massive bloated spending bills that get passed by the senate 98-0 every year. Not one of them can be called conservative by any measure. But because they are somewhat pro 2nd amendment and are anti abortion, it suddenly means they are conservative? No, it means they they are pathetic scum who are doing all they can without being cut off from the lobbying trough. Big money doesnt care about abortion or gay rights. Big money cares about that $500 billion check to frickin lockheed martin, monsanto, and goldman sachs. So the conservatives spend all their time on gay rights. It is sad and pathetic and I cannot believe anyone on any side of the so called aisle actually falls for that crap.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I didn't see any Right Wingers protesting either....

http://washingtonexaminer.com/polit...-vote-underestimates-anti-war-sentiment-house

 

[HomerJS]

I never saw a War the Right couldn't get behind.

War on Poverty

 

[Theb]

I would have...especially if he violated the War Powers Act. On the other hand...you can bet the farm that the Libs would have screamed bloody murder. Am I right?

Yes, that's the way the game is played.

 

[JSt0rm]

Obama went to war without Congressional approval. Times are a changing.

Libya was a hole in one. To even think you can attach that in some negative fashion to obama to show he has the same level of incompetence as bush and his 2 failed wars says a lot about your lack of character.

 

[Ausm]

War on Poverty

Good point!

 

[Ausm]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/polit...-vote-underestimates-anti-war-sentiment-house

I thought you meant Afghanistan but anywho...but is this relevant ?

 

[piasabird]

Social Progress? How can you measure that? Quantify it. It is all hogwash. It is feel good psychology. If you dont have limits and boundaries, then when young people test the boundaries they find that no one cares so they just get away with everything. Then next thing you know they are drug addicts with 5 children and 5 fathers living in loser-ville. Where is the social progress?

 

[dank69]

Social Progress? How can you measure that? Quantify it. It is all hogwash. It is feel good psychology. If you dont have limits and boundaries, then when young people test the boundaries they find that no one cares so they just get away with everything. Then next thing you know they are drug addicts with 5 children and 5 fathers living in loser-ville. Where is the social progress?

Social progress is minorities being viewed as people rather than things by a majority of society.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Libya was a hole in one. To even think you can attach that in some negative fashion to obama to show he has the same level of incompetence as bush and his 2 failed wars says a lot about your lack of character.

You may want to reread what I posted as my point wasn't to compare levels of incompetence between Presidents.

"lack of character"...really?

 

[JSt0rm]

what was your point then?

Libya was a war?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

what was your point then?

Libya was a war?

I was pointing out apparent inconsistencies in how Libs react based purely on the letter behind one's name. If the Libyan War happened during Bush's (R) presidency and he handled it identically to Obama (D) (i.e. violating the War Powers Act with arrogant impunity)...the Libs would have thrown a huge hissy fit (and Harvey would have had an aneurysm to boot!). Instead...all we hear are crickets. Surely this kind of apparent hypocrisy is not lost on you.

 

[dank69]

I was pointing out apparent inconsistencies in how Libs react based purely on the letter behind one's name. If the Libyan War happened during Bush's (R) presidency and he handled it identically to Obama (D) (i.e. violating the War Powers Act with arrogant impunity)...the Libs would have thrown a huge hissy fit (and Harvey would have had an aneurysm to boot!). Instead...all we hear are crickets. Surely this kind of apparent hypocrisy is not lost on you.

So, completely off topic then?

 

[JSt0rm]

I was pointing out apparent inconsistencies in how Libs react based purely on the letter behind one's name. If the Libyan War happened during Bush's (R) presidency and he handled it identically to Obama (D) (i.e. violating the War Powers Act with arrogant impunity)...the Libs would have thrown a huge hissy fit (and Harvey would have had an aneurysm to boot!). Instead...all we hear are crickets. Surely this kind of apparent hypocrisy is not lost on you.

Well that is false actually. The Libyan conflict happen with full un support. It also happened by the WILL of the people of Libya.

What you are saying is that I am not a free thinking person who weighs every situation differently. To that I say fuck you. I absolutly see a difference between those 2 "wars" and its only your rotten mind that sees liberals in they way that you portray them.