Connecting my new sub to old receiver

[IslandStylin]

This is probably a really stupid question, but I want to make sure before I order anything.

I recently purchased a Truaudio PS-12 sub and I want to connect it to my old Onkyo TS-484 Receiver.

User manual: http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-ds484_manual_e.pdf

Let me know if I am correct in my assumptions: I need to connect an RCA cable from the Sub Woofer Pre Out on the back of the receiver and into Line R & L on my sub via a 'Y' Splitter?

This receiver doesn't have an LFE port.

Or would it be better to use the High Level In with speaker wire and High level out. I guess you connect the L & R from the receiver to the L & R of the sub in the High Level In and than the speaker wire from High Level Out to the L & R front speakers?

Do I have that right?

What is the best option?

 

[Number1]

You don't need a spitter.

 

[IslandStylin]

I don't? Than i plug my rca cable from the sub pre out to which input? The red? The white? I thought you would want to split it to plug it into both.

Would you recommend doing speaker wire instead of the rca cable way?

 

[IslandStylin]

I don't? Than i plug my rca cable from the sub pre out to which input? The red? The white? I thought you would want to split it to plug it into both.

Would you recommend doing speaker wire instead of the rca cable way?

 

[purbeast0]

look at page 10 of your manual, it's pretty obvious how to connect your subwoofer to it.

EDIT:

oh sorry misread it. you can plug it into your l or r one, i don't think a splitter will matter at all.

 

[LoveMachine]

Low level, RCA inputs are generally recommended. High level conversion induces a fair bit of distortion and odd response curves.

 

[Number1]

I don't? Than i plug my rca cable from the sub pre out to which input? The red? The white? I thought you would want to split it to plug it into both.

Would you recommend doing speaker wire instead of the rca cable way?

It doesn't matter. Try one, if it doesn't work the other one will.
let us know how it works out.

 

[sdifox]

Line out from your receiver to either right or left in of sub is fine. Convention is to use the right channel one.

 

[IslandStylin]

So I am pretty darn confused right now. I bought an RCA (came with L & R) plugged the red side into the sub out on the receiver and into the red on the subwoofer. I can hear some rumble, but its REALLY low. Nothing it really hitting at all. No idea whats wrong. Should I change the db level on the receiver to +10? Right now it is on +3 and it's barely audible.

I just heard this sub the other day when I bought it and it was loud and in charge...not it's like someone kicked it and it can barely speak...

Thoughts?

 

[slashbinslashbash]

You probably want to go through the speaker setup process on your receiver (starting at page 14 in the manual). Make sure it's set to use a subwoofer, your main speakers are set to "small" (which pushes more sounds to the subwoofer), LFE level is set to reasonable levels, etc. Also make sure that you're using a source with good low frequency sounds (action movie, etc.) and that your receiver is set to a mode that will use the subwoofer (i.e., not plain stereo).

 

[IslandStylin]

So I went through the setup again. Everything is set up correctly. Speakers on small, sub is yes, and DTS mode is on 5.1

What LFE level should I set it to?

It's definitely making more noisenow...more low rumbles than any big booms, which might be considered normal? When I tested it yesterday at this guys house, the sub seemed to be more present than it is now. That's with the same songs as I used before as well.. Perhaps it's my receiver? Perhaps I wasn't listening well enough the first time.

I felt like you could FEEL the sub, more than hear the sub.

I checked out The Avengers big battle scene towards the end. NOthing was Big and impacting. Everything sounded alright, but I suppose I was expecting more from the explosions, etc.

Thoughts on how you would describe how your sub sounds when you use it?

(I know I haven't done a speaker crawl yet, so I am sure that has something to do with it as well)

 

[purbeast0]

well if you were listening to music on it at the guys house chances are it was in stereo mode. if you just play normal music (ie, cds) on 5.1 it doesn't sound as good because it's simulating 5.1. stereo is what you want it in.

also the sound at your place, in music and movies, is going to sound different than it did at the guys house because your rooms aren't identical. if your room is pretty large the placement of the sub is crucial and it won't sound as good as if it were in a smaller room.

another thing to check out is what the crossover settings are on your receiver. after i ran audyssey on mine the crossover was set at like 120hz or so i think. i had to move it down to like 80hz or 60hz (don't remember) for the same reasons you are seeing - the bass wasn't hitting as it should have been.

 

[IslandStylin]

I have tried listening to it via stereo and 5.1 Both sound decent at best. I think it has to do with sub placement. I also know the sound must be different seeing as he had wood floors and I have carpet.


I don't think I can change the crossover settings on this particular receiver. I can change the DB =10, infinity 0, and -10

It's on +3 now

The sub is set to about 80hz on the back knob.

 

[sdifox]

I have tried listening to it via stereo and 5.1 Both sound decent at best. I think it has to do with sub placement. I also know the sound must be different seeing as he had wood floors and I have carpet.


I don't think I can change the crossover settings on this particular receiver. I can change the DB =10, infinity 0, and -10

It's on +3 now

The sub is set to about 80hz on the back knob.

at the back of the sub set it to as high as it will go. that way whatever the crossover the receiver is set as will be used.

 

[IslandStylin]

My receiver doesn't give me any crossover options as far as I can tell. Only the db level change. I tried bumping the frequency a bit though 1 o'clock range and the volume more so. It's hitting much better than before. I changed a few other small options in surround mode as well.

I think it just hasn't gotten enough play yet and still needs to warm up.

Thank you for all your feedback guys thus far

I might try and buy an SPL meter to check it

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Setting the main speakers to "small" or "large" changes the subwoofer crossover level. I don't know the exact frequencies, but IIRC usually "small" corresponds to something like 120Hz, "large" to 80Hz.

 

[sdifox]

My receiver doesn't give me any crossover options as far as I can tell. Only the db level change. I tried bumping the frequency a bit though 1 o'clock range and the volume more so. It's hitting much better than before. I changed a few other small options in surround mode as well.

I think it just hasn't gotten enough play yet and still needs to warm up.

Thank you for all your feedback guys thus far

I might try and buy an SPL meter to check it

I know, that is why you set the sub to the highest crossover point. Usually it's 80 or 100Hz on the receiver.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Actually I would check your phase of the sub. You need to get a SPL meter if you don't have one and you also need to download a frequency sweep CD at 1/4 or 1/2 octave intervals from 10Hz to 800Hz (or higher), and preferably some pink noise tracks. There are several free tracks available. I know I have downloaded at least one or two on AVSForums in the past.

Your sub will probably have a phase setting on it (at the minimum it will be a toggle switch between 0 or 180, more advanced ones use a dial that lets you set any range in-between 0 and 360). Use a frequency at your crossover point (so if your crossover is 80Hz, play an 80Hz tone), and measure with the SPL meter the sound level. Now change your phase to 180 on the sub, play the tone again, and measure the sound level on the SPL meter (preferable with the sound meter mounted to a stand so it is in the same exact place). One of the two results will typically be louder than the other. If your sub allows more control over the phase, try turning the phase to 90 and 270 and checking which is louder. Then keep cutting in half and moving around the level that is loudest until you find the perfect phase setting so that the differences in distance between you and your sub and you and your speaker does not cause the sound generated on both to interact destructively (by being out of phase with each other).

Next you need to use the frequency sweeps to figure out the proper crossover value (assuming it is adjustable on your receiver), and/or to level match your sub with your speakers. You can also use them to find room and seating nulls (areas where reflections of the soundwaves off your walls, ceiling and floor cancel the frequency range for that location due to placement of the speakers and sub). You can't correct a room null with an equalizer. You can only correct it by moving the speakers or placing diffusion panels on the walls/ceiling/floor to remove the offending reflections (basically think of it like if you placed a mirror on the wall/ceiling/floor and you can see your speaker/sub in that mirror from where you sit, that is a point where the soundwave will bounce off the wall and then hit you at a slightly different time interval (due to the extra distance it traveled), and will interfere with the soundwaves which traveled directly from the speaker to your ear, and those are the spots were you need to consider possibly putting room treatments such as diffusion panels or moving the speakers/sub to new locations which do not have as bad a reflection).

 

[sdifox]

Actually I would check your phase of the sub. You need to get a SPL meter if you don't have one and you also need to download a frequency sweep CD at 1/4 or 1/2 octave intervals from 10Hz to 800Hz (or higher), and preferably some pink noise tracks. There are several free tracks available. I know I have downloaded at least one or two on AVSForums in the past.

Your sub will probably have a phase setting on it (at the minimum it will be a toggle switch between 0 or 180, more advanced ones use a dial that lets you set any range in-between 0 and 360). Use a frequency at your crossover point (so if your crossover is 80Hz, play an 80Hz tone), and measure with the SPL meter the sound level. Now change your phase to 180 on the sub, play the tone again, and measure the sound level on the SPL meter (preferable with the sound meter mounted to a stand so it is in the same exact place). One of the two results will typically be louder than the other. If your sub allows more control over the phase, try turning the phase to 90 and 270 and checking which is louder. Then keep cutting in half and moving around the level that is loudest until you find the perfect phase setting so that the differences in distance between you and your sub and you and your speaker does not cause the sound generated on both to interact destructively (by being out of phase with each other).

Next you need to use the frequency sweeps to figure out the proper crossover value (assuming it is adjustable on your receiver), and/or to level match your sub with your speakers. You can also use them to find room and seating nulls (areas where reflections of the soundwaves off your walls, ceiling and floor cancel the frequency range for that location due to placement of the speakers and sub). You can't correct a room null with an equalizer. You can only correct it by moving the speakers or placing diffusion panels on the walls/ceiling/floor to remove the offending reflections (basically think of it like if you placed a mirror on the wall/ceiling/floor and you can see your speaker/sub in that mirror from where you sit, that is a point where the soundwave will bounce off the wall and then hit you at a slightly different time interval (due to the extra distance it traveled), and will interfere with the soundwaves which traveled directly from the speaker to your ear, and those are the spots were you need to consider possibly putting room treatments such as diffusion panels).

you are making it more complicated than his hardware can support :biggrin:

 

[IslandStylin]

Thank you for the detailed tips. I know what I will be doing with my labor day weekend. =)

The speakers changed from Small to Large definitely made a difference as well. I think once I start using the SPL meter I will get exactly what I need out of this sub. I downloaded and burned a frequency sweep cd the other day as well.


Thank you..thank you..THANK YOU!

I really appreciate everyone's help on this site.

Your sub will probably have a phase setting on it (at the minimum it will be a toggle switch between 0 or 180, more advanced ones use a dial that lets you set any range in-between 0 and 360). Use a frequency at your crossover point (so if your crossover is 80Hz, play an 80Hz tone), and measure with the SPL meter the sound level. Now change your phase to 180 on the sub, play the tone again, and measure the sound level on the SPL meter (preferable with the sound meter mounted to a stand so it is in the same exact place). One of the two results will typically be louder than the other. If your sub allows more control over the phase, try turning the phase to 90 and 270 and checking which is louder. Then keep cutting in half and moving around the level that is loudest until you find the perfect phase setting so that the differences in distance between you and your sub and you and your speaker does not cause the sound generated on both to interact destructively (by being out of phase with each other).

I Want to make sure I have this right. I adjust the SPL meter to 80 and change the sub to 80. If it hits 80 its working well? Double it and check hz. Than start coming down until the numbers don't match up well? That will mean there is sound destruction?

Next you need to use the frequency sweeps to figure out the proper crossover value (assuming it is adjustable on your receiver), and/or to level match your sub with your speakers. You can also use them to find room and seating nulls (areas where reflections of the soundwaves off your walls, ceiling and floor cancel the frequency range for that location due to placement of the speakers and sub). You can't correct a room null with an equalizer. You can only correct it by moving the speakers or placing diffusion panels on the walls/ceiling/floor to remove the offending reflections (basically think of it like if you placed a mirror on the wall/ceiling/floor and you can see your speaker/sub in that mirror from where you sit, that is a point where the soundwave will bounce off the wall and then hit you at a slightly different time interval (due to the extra distance it traveled), and will interfere with the soundwaves which traveled directly from the speaker to your ear, and those are the spots were you need to consider possibly putting room treatments such as diffusion panels or moving the speakers/sub to new locations which do not have as bad a reflection).

My receiver can ONLY do small/large speakers and db levels up and down. Not sure I can measure the levels with limited control....can i?