Connecticut Challenges No Child Left Behind Law

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
HARTFORD, Conn. - Connecticut on Monday became the first state to challenge the No Child Left Behind law in court, arguing that the centerpiece of President Bush's education law amounts to an unfunded mandate from the federal government.

"Our message today is give up the unfunded mandates, or give us the money," said Attorney General Richard Blumenthal.

The lawsuit raises the stakes in a heated fight between states and the Bush administration over the law, and experts say Legislatures around the country will be watching the case carefully. Experts expect that states could vote to join the lawsuit or file their own.

The lawsuit argues that No Child Left Behind is illegal because it requires expensive standardized tests and other school programs that the government doesn't pay for. It asks a federal judge to declare that state and local money cannot be used to meet the law's goals.

Yahoo News

Took them long enough, hopefully other states will join in as well.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
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From what i've read, Bush is extremely strong on education, apparently this is one legacy of his to be proud of.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
From what i've read, Bush is extremely strong on education, apparently this is one legacy of his to be proud of.

"One question we have to ask our self is, 'Is our children learning?'"

I never get tired of that one.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
From what i've read, Bush is extremely strong on education, apparently this is one legacy of his to be proud of.

Except his "legacy" is an act with dubious effect even if it was properly funded, which it isn't. The idea that student education can be improved through testing alone is just silly. And I find it rather telling that I have yet to meet or hear of a single teacher in favor of the program.
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,045
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Once again, shoving more and more money into already corrupt schools will not make kids suddenly want to learn better.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
I wish I could just post the article in the economist on Bush's education policies.
Buy into whatever you want, but fact is; Bush's education record is quite good.

Democrats have nothing to win on that front, they are better addressing war, spending, oil, healthcare.
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
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no school district or state in the entire country is forced to follow NCLB. They only have to do if they want federal funds. They'll get wiped out in court. One fact is certain, Bush has pumped a TON of money into education, much more than before. I see nothing wrong with trying to get some benchmarks in return for the dramatic increase in spending.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Jadow
no school district or state in the entire country is forced to follow NCLB. They only have to do if they want federal funds. They'll get wiped out in court. One fact is certain, Bush has pumped a TON of money into education, much more than before. I see nothing wrong with trying to get some benchmarks in return for the dramatic increase in spending.

It's not that it's a bad idea in principle, it's that the execution doesn't seem to work as well as some people might hope.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
I wish I could just post the article in the economist on Bush's education policies.
Buy into whatever you want, but fact is; Bush's education record is quite good.

Democrats have nothing to win on that front, they are better addressing war, spending, oil, healthcare.

I would really be interested in reading that. I have a hard time believing his policies have been so soundly bashed by education experts and others while actually being productive. But maybe I'm wrong.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Stunt
I wish I could just post the article in the economist on Bush's education policies.
Buy into whatever you want, but fact is; Bush's education record is quite good.

Democrats have nothing to win on that front, they are better addressing war, spending, oil, healthcare.

I would really be interested in reading that. I have a hard time believing his policies have been so soundly bashed by education experts and others while actually being productive. But maybe I'm wrong.
Found the article!!

Everybody read it!! Economist
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Tab
HARTFORD, Conn. - Connecticut on Monday became the first state to challenge the No Child Left Behind law in court, arguing that the centerpiece of President Bush's education law amounts to an unfunded mandate from the federal government.

"Our message today is give up the unfunded mandates, or give us the money," said Attorney General Richard Blumenthal.

The lawsuit raises the stakes in a heated fight between states and the Bush administration over the law, and experts say Legislatures around the country will be watching the case carefully. Experts expect that states could vote to join the lawsuit or file their own.

The lawsuit argues that No Child Left Behind is illegal because it requires expensive standardized tests and other school programs that the government doesn't pay for. It asks a federal judge to declare that state and local money cannot be used to meet the law's goals.

Yahoo News

Took them long enough, hopefully other states will join in as well.



If they want the money from the fed, they are going to have play by the feds rules. They are not required to do anything.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,861
68
91
www.bing.com
NCLB is put onto the states the same way the new DUI standards were put on, by baiting them with federal money.

Most states had a 0.1 legal alcohol limit, US said make it .08, states said no thanks. US said do it or else we won't donate to your highway fund this year. Wow look at that, every state now has a .08 legal limit.


Stunt, thanks for the link, wow, best test scores in over 30 years.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Stunt
I wish I could just post the article in the economist on Bush's education policies.
Buy into whatever you want, but fact is; Bush's education record is quite good.

Democrats have nothing to win on that front, they are better addressing war, spending, oil, healthcare.

I would really be interested in reading that. I have a hard time believing his policies have been so soundly bashed by education experts and others while actually being productive. But maybe I'm wrong.
Found the article!!

Everybody read it!! Economist

You can't be surprised by this.

The kids are no longer being taught anything other than to pass these tests.

A tape recorder can repeat the same thing when put in a loop. :confused:

 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You can't be surprised by this.

The kids are no longer being taught anything other than to pass these tests.

A tape recorder can repeat the same thing when put in a loop. :confused:
Don't tell me you are serious! :p

Give credit when it is due...you expect the same when your guys make accomplishments.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,861
68
91
www.bing.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Stunt
I wish I could just post the article in the economist on Bush's education policies.
Buy into whatever you want, but fact is; Bush's education record is quite good.

Democrats have nothing to win on that front, they are better addressing war, spending, oil, healthcare.

I would really be interested in reading that. I have a hard time believing his policies have been so soundly bashed by education experts and others while actually being productive. But maybe I'm wrong.
Found the article!!

Everybody read it!! Economist

You can't be surprised by this.

The kids are no longer being taught anything other than to pass these tests.

A tape recorder can repeat the same thing when put in a loop. :confused:
the real world is results driven, shouldnt schools be too?

"A for effort" doesnt put food on the table.
 

montanafan

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,551
2
71
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Stunt
From what i've read, Bush is extremely strong on education, apparently this is one legacy of his to be proud of.

Except his "legacy" is an act with dubious effect even if it was properly funded, which it isn't. The idea that student education can be improved through testing alone is just silly. And I find it rather telling that I have yet to meet or hear of a single teacher in favor of the program.

Here's another teacher you've met, Rainsford, who hates NCLB. Bush's intentions may have been good in theory, but the execution of it is more stifiling to education than anything else. As for test results, of course they're higher, all we do all year long is teach the tests. Time is taken away from other facets of learning to get the kids to parrot the test questions and answers.

Perhaps it's more frustrating to me than to others because of what I teach; American and World History, Civics, Economics, Psychology, Geography, etc., because those things aren't even measured by the tests. Science isn't a focus of the testing either. It's mainly Math and English. Kids are actually pulled out of our classes for review and reteach for Math and English at times prior to the multitudes of standardized tests required throughout the year for NCLB.

And just as bad are all the convoluted measurements of goals and "accountability" that the schools are held to. One example is, if a student is enrolled in your high school in the ninth grade and attends your school for just two weeks, but then leaves and transfers to another school, your school is still held accountable for that student's test results until they graduate. ??? If they go to another school and then drop out two years later, it's held against the original school's graduation rates. How does that make any sense? And the way things are configured, if a student starts out scoring too high on the tests, it actually hurts your ability to meet your goals for improvement because their incremental improvements tend to be smaller. It would be better for your school to have students do poorly when they're first tested because then the annual improvements would look better on paper and show your school as meeting or exceeding it's required percentages of improvement.

It feels like schools are being turned into factories with teachers manning the assembly lines and students as products that only have to have a few parts working to meet quality control standards.



 

Accipiter22

Banned
Feb 11, 2005
7,947
2
0
Originally posted by: Tab
HARTFORD, Conn. - Connecticut on Monday became the first state to challenge the No Child Left Behind law in court, arguing that the centerpiece of President Bush's education law amounts to an unfunded mandate from the federal government.

"Our message today is give up the unfunded mandates, or give us the money," said Attorney General Richard Blumenthal.

The lawsuit raises the stakes in a heated fight between states and the Bush administration over the law, and experts say Legislatures around the country will be watching the case carefully. Experts expect that states could vote to join the lawsuit or file their own.

The lawsuit argues that No Child Left Behind is illegal because it requires expensive standardized tests and other school programs that the government doesn't pay for. It asks a federal judge to declare that state and local money cannot be used to meet the law's goals.

Yahoo News

Took them long enough, hopefully other states will join in as well.



my problem is that when students are taught simply to pass a test they're not smarter, they're only trained how to answer on said test.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You can't be surprised by this.

The kids are no longer being taught anything other than to pass these tests.

A tape recorder can repeat the same thing when put in a loop. :confused:

So are you saying these kids that can't pass these simple tests have the intelligence of a tape recorder?

Or we can buy into the standard liberal apologist excuses for their kids:

Waaaah! I'm not good at taking tests.
Waaaah! I was stressed out the night before.
Waaaah! Testing is unfair to those who don't prepare for it.

Translation: I am a stupid kid who can't do well on an objective exam and I don't want to grow up and take responsibility for myself.

Better a kid who knows the math required to pass a test than a kid who doesn't.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You can't be surprised by this.

The kids are no longer being taught anything other than to pass these tests.

A tape recorder can repeat the same thing when put in a loop. :confused:

So are you saying these kids that can't pass these simple tests have the intelligence of a tape recorder?

Or we can buy into the standard liberal apologist excuses for their kids:

Waaaah! I'm not good at taking tests.
Waaaah! I was stressed out the night before.
Waaaah! Testing is unfair to those who don't prepare for it.

Translation: I am a stupid kid who can't do well on an objective exam and I don't want to grow up and take responsibility for myself.

Better a kid who knows the math required to pass a test than a kid who doesn't.

So let me get this straight.

You are proud the kids have the intelligence of a tape recorder?
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: Train
wow, you mean teachers now have to face all the BS the rest of us deal with in the real world?

Sweet.

they were already dealing with plenty of BS trust me. there is a reason there is a shortage of teachers - no one want's to put up with all this crap for that pay. if they pay wasn't so bad i would have considered it as a profession but i didn't bust my ass through college to go out and make less than 30k with minimal raises every year.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: zendari

Better a kid who knows the math required to pass a test than a kid who doesn't.

knows some math (still not enough) at the expense of everything else. the biggest problems with education occurs in the homes of the students. with the proper support from home students are capable of almost anything.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: Train
wow, you mean teachers now have to face all the BS the rest of us deal with in the real world?

Sweet.

they were already dealing with plenty of BS trust me. there is a reason there is a shortage of teachers - no one want's to put up with all this crap for that pay. if they pay wasn't so bad i would have considered it as a profession but i didn't bust my ass through college to go out and make less than 30k with minimal raises every year.

Well they only work 180 days as opposed to 240+, they don't ever have to deal with commute in the snow, they have essentially infinite job security after tenure, they get solid benefits, and their day ends at 3 oclock.

I agree the biggest problem in education is student/parental interest, but that isn't the government's problem.

 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: Train
wow, you mean teachers now have to face all the BS the rest of us deal with in the real world?

Sweet.

they were already dealing with plenty of BS trust me. there is a reason there is a shortage of teachers - no one want's to put up with all this crap for that pay. if they pay wasn't so bad i would have considered it as a profession but i didn't bust my ass through college to go out and make less than 30k with minimal raises every year.

Well they only work 180 days as opposed to 240+, they don't ever have to deal with commute in the snow, they have essentially infinite job security after tenure, they get solid benefits, and their day ends at 3 oclock.

I agree the biggest problem in education is student/parental interest, but that isn't the government's problem.

their days are much longer than mine - when i go home the day is over. when they go home it's time to start correcting papers.

the snow thing depends on the district. some districts (like the one I was in) very rarely call snow days. i can recall driving to schol a few days where I almost lost it a couple of times.

infinite job security? who wants it? most teachers bail early these days. long gone are the days of teachers doing their thing for 30 years and then retiring.

most full time jobs have decent benefits.

what would i know? i only lived with 2 teachers for 18 years and have firsthand knowledge about the kind of BS they have to put up with.