Congressman returning from Iraq says the media is costing us lives

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,669
5,145
126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We need real information on that issue not covering or exposing ass.
I completely agree with that sentence. Somehow I think you and I interpret it a different way though;)

CkG
What's to interpret?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Thank God we have you sitting back here on your couch to give us all the "big picture".
Just so you know AndrewR is an active duty Air Force officer and I would say his location and the job he is doing gives him a view of the "bigger picture" that is infinitely bigger than yours.
Whatever you say, Mini-Me. (We've had this discussion before.)

Assuming he is in the military, it doesn't make his opinions gospel. They are opinions, no more, no less.

(And if he is in the military, I sure hope he isn't in a role where he has contact with the public. He needs to work on his people skills.)
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Thank God we have you sitting back here on your couch to give us all the "big picture".
Just so you know AndrewR is an active duty Air Force officer and I would say his location and the job he is doing gives him a view of the "bigger picture" that is infinitely bigger than yours.
Whatever you say, Mini-Me. (We've had this discussion before.)

Assuming he is in the military, it doesn't make his opinions gospel. They are opinions, no more, no less.

(And if he is in the military, I sure hope he isn't in a role where he has contact with the public. He needs to work on his people skills.)
What disscusion would that be smegma breath. The one about you being an ignorant jackass? I only pointed that out to you to save you further embarassment after your "sitting on your couch" comment. No one claimed his opinion was gospel but source, perspective,experience etc. all go towards weighting credibility and his carries alot more weight than yours. Especially since you're the one "sitting back here on the couch".
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
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Originally posted by: AndrewR
The BS is spewing from your fingertips, not his. It is far from BS to say that the media contributed to the failure in Vietnam when the communists helped organize the "home grown" anti-war effort. Read here, about midway down under "What Went Wrong?" regarding the memoirs of a communist propaganda officer from the North.

I will make this simple for you since that's obviously on your level. If the media were to report the entire story with adequate weight given to good and bad, it would be apparent that our occupation and reconstruction efforts are being welcomed in Iraq by a vast majority of the people there, and it would discourage foreign fighters from intervening with the assumption that the population will support their attacks on the Coalition forces. Further, the revelation, to those who rely on the biased media at least, that the reconstruction is going well would likely change some people's opinions in the U.S. and reduce the amount of criticism being leveled at the White House and the Pentagon and would give our troops on the ground a better overall picture of what is happening since most are confined to particular areas and don't have the "big picture".

Sorry, I used some big words in there -- muddle through as best you can.
No problem, I can handle it just fine with the two graduate degree I have. It's not surprising that your so called "big picture" is a bit muddy if you truely believes in the memoirs of communist propaganda you quoted. You have no understanding of the political situation at Vietnamn during the 60s, and judging from that, you probably don't have any understanding of the situation at Iraq today too.

The reason US lost in Vietnam is simple, they were on the wrong side. The world to most American are simple, we are good and they are evil. American could never imagined that we would be on the wrong side. No, how can that be, communist are evil, and democracy are good, right? During the early 50's and 60's, Asia was ruled by democratic governments in name only. Country like China under Chiang Kai-Shek was suppose to be American's ally with a democratic government. But anyone with little Chinese history know, his regime was corrupted and brutal. The elite upper class colluded with the government and rich became filthy rich and poor couldn't even feed their children. That's the reason people of China believed and supported communism, there were too much injustice and inequality at the time.

Vietnam was similar. After the second world war, south vietnam had president who were basically a puppet of French government. Later on, a president who were so brutal to his own people that Kenney and CIA had to work with Vietnamese generals and start a coup to overthrow him. North Vietnam was the side that people of Vietnam chose because south Vietnam government were either corrupt or a puppet of a foreign power. American failed to see that and stubbronly stood against the Vietnamese people and that led to the defeat.

What made vietnamese fight even after millions and millions of casualty against American? In the face of extreme disadvantage in terms of technology and military firepower? was American Media going to make a difference? Were Vietnamese not going to defend their own country or their freedom even if American Media presented a United Amierca at the time? Millions of their country men already died for their country, were they going to retreat becasue of media propaganda?

It's understandable from American interest stand point that we didn't want communism spread, but did anyone ever asked what Vietnamnese's interest were and what those people wanted?

What you quoted is nothing more than a bitter old solder who refuse to see the world from the other side, refuse to admit defeat and refuse to admit being wrong. Hey, it's comman human reaction to refuse being wrong or accept defeat when he invested heart and soul into something, but it does not make it right.

Today's Iraq is a little more favorable because Saddam was not support by his people. But it doesn't mean that we are the side that Iraqi people chose. The war and the killing is there because we chose to get involved in this conflict at Iraq. People who fight us have their own idealism and that's not gonna change just because the media say something. People who fight us know what kind of odd they are facing, the most powerful military in the world, so a little propaganda is not going to make them more scared of us.

The propaganda is not gonna be used to affect the Saddam loyalist and Al-Qaeda, it's gonna be used for the foolish American people who refuse to open their eye.
 

Bleep

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,972
0
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Just so you know AndrewR is an active duty Air Force officer and I would say his location and the job he is doing gives him a view of the "bigger picture" that is infinitely bigger than yours.
having been in the military I can say without a doubt that being a officer in any branch of service in not a sign of either intellegence or "in the know" .
I have been in comabat and have had a lot of goverment service in the states and overseas and not even top level officers know what is going on 1/2 the time.
Being a officer carries no weight, they are in their own little world and have no knowledge of the overall picture.
The only news media seen by the military in Iraq is Fox news, the most liberal of all the networks.




Bleep
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Bleep
Just so you know AndrewR is an active duty Air Force officer and I would say his location and the job he is doing gives him a view of the "bigger picture" that is infinitely bigger than yours.
having been in the military I can say without a doubt that being a officer in any branch of service in not a sign of either intellegence or "in the know" .
I have been in comabat and have had a lot of goverment service in the states and overseas and not even top level officers know what is going on 1/2 the time.
Being a officer carries no weight, they are in their own little world and have no knowledge of the overall picture.
The only news media seen by the military in Iraq is Fox news, the most liberal of all the networks.




Bleep
This is not the same .mil you were in 50 years ago Bleep and AndrewR is not in Iraq watching Fox news. Nor is he "back here sitting on the couch" which was really the point of my initial post.

Last word here.

 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Whatever you say, Mini-Me. (We've had this discussion before.)

Assuming he is in the military, it doesn't make his opinions gospel. They are opinions, no more, no less.

(And if he is in the military, I sure hope he isn't in a role where he has contact with the public. He needs to work on his people skills.)
What disscusion would that be smegma breath. The one about you being an ignorant jackass?
Smegma breath? LOL! I'm rubber, you're glue, neener, neener, neener.


I see your "military" service is in the Cub Scouts.


I only pointed that out to you to save you further embarassment after your "sitting on your couch" comment. No one claimed his opinion was gospel but source, perspective,experience etc. all go towards weighting credibility and his carries alot more weight than yours. Especially since you're the one "sitting back here on the couch".
And as far as we know, so is he. (And he claimed his opinion was gospel with his abrasive dismissal of any other opinions.)

We had this discussion a couple of months ago. It was the thread about a group of former CIA analysts who came forward with specific complaints about Bush-lite & his minions tampering with and misrepresenting intelligence. You tried to pull the same BS then. "Hi, even though I'm Mr. Anonymous Web Poster, you must all believe me when I claim I'm a secret agent with superb intelligence credentials. I am the authority, ignore those frauds in the article. They are less credible because I say so. You must comply." Yeah, right.

Sorry, general, I'm afraid your anonymous opinions carry less weight than publicly identified people with exceptional, verified credentials. So do his. Unless you can prove your identity and your credentials, your opinions are no better than anyone else's.

It is funny how you weigh "source, perspective, experience etc." tonight, but dismissed them in that thread. I'm sure this flip-flop is unrelated to the fact those analysts disagreed with you.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
0
0
I'm sure that AndrewR provides a different perspective on issues due to his position. But to imply that because of his position his opinion is fact and other's are fiction is pretty arrogant. Also, for someone who has gone on record saying that America didn't support the war with Iraq (your guess is as good as mine) and we don't have the right to know if we are mistreating prisoners, it's seems a little odd to be using language like I will make this simple for you since that's obviously on your level..
 

beyoku

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2003
1,568
1
71
Sure the people that are attacking U.S. troops are watching american TV stations to see the aftereffect. Most are poor and prob dont even have TV. Would they even be able to get CNN over there. Who's satellite are they using?
 

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