Congress will consider proposal to raise H-1B minimum wage to $100,000

[1prophet]

Everybody is going to say that about their industry. Wha worries me is trump blessing certain things, like drilling holes in metal over flipping burgers. Or engineers over 3d animators. Why does he get to decide the winners and losers in the economy?

Yeah like really, kind of gets in the way of cheap prices for those uneducated deplorables and fat profits for all them limousine tech liberal CEO executives.

How not to hire an American

 

[werepossum]

I am sure there would be lawsuits by companies claiming this violates equal protection clause. But also, prevailing wage for very specialized technical skills would be hard for even a competent administration to manage.
I think what should be happening is market based solution where more flexibility is given to the H1B worker to switch jobs for higher pay. I don't think companies are out to screw Americans if the playing field is level, and there is less friction to hiring an American than going through immigration process.

But there will always be qualified immigrants willing to work for less than Americans; most of the world is lower paid and has less economic opportunity. I'd hate to see us go further down the road of Americans seeing that STEM fields pay less than government service or lawyering.

 

[werepossum]

Yes, given enough time and resources, I can find and train people to do what needs to be done. But, that's not realistic. The h1-b program exists to make sure business can fill the (mostly) technical or specialized roles quickly. If you need an expert on IIS security and there aren't enough of those available, you go out and you get one from somewhere else and bring them here on an h1-b visa. The visa is only good for 3 years, with a possible extension of another 3 years. Companies lobbied for that because they said they often had a very hard time filling (mostly) technical roles in a timely manner. So far so good, it makes sense, and it was never meant to be a way to get cheaper workers. In fact, getting an h1-b requires that you show that you're paying "prevailing" wage for that position.

After a while companies started figuring out how to game the system and use it to save money on labor instead of filling unfilled roles. Instead of hiring capable US citizen $100k to do the job, they bring in foreign h1-b worker to do it for $70k. Then, big consulting firms (tata consulting, wipro etc) built a business model where they essentially bring a pool of thousands of these workers here and 'rent' out their services to businesses for a lot less than what a comparable US worker would have to be paid. Often, the US workers are forced to train their h1-b replacements and are then fired.

Doesn't really matter how well he knew the business, that's not what the visa program was intended for.

I don't have a problem with bringing skilled educated workers here.... but that's not what's happening. They are only here for a little while and then rotated out with someone else. They take those skills back home. The employer benefits by saving lots of money, the consulting company makes money, everyone is happy. Everyone, that is, except for the middle class worker getting knee-capped by this process. This is one of the reasons wages have been stagnant. These are good middle class type jobs that are no longer availabe to US citizens and instead go to temp foreign workers. Supplementing our workforce with capable foreign talent is great, displacing our workers with temporary foreign talent is not.

I'm 100% for bringing in skilled workers. It helps our economy and improves on our tech capabilities. However, the programs are being thoroughly abused / misused at this point, they need reformed.

Good points. I'd only add that if we bring in 15,000 smart, skilled foreign workers, we also remove the inclination for 15,000 smart Americans to learn those skills. We get the same 15,000 smart, skilled people either way, but one way we also have another 15,000 smart people without valuable marketable skills who also need to eat, reproduce, etc.

Yeah like really, kind of gets in the way of cheap prices for those uneducated deplorables and fat profits for all them limousine tech liberal CEO executives.

How not to hire an American

Gee, for employers who honestly want to hire Americans they sure spend a lot of time and resources figuring out how to avoid hiring Americans.

 

[theeedude]

But there will always be qualified immigrants willing to work for less than Americans; most of the world is lower paid and has less economic opportunity. I'd hate to see us go further down the road of Americans seeing that STEM fields pay less than government service or lawyering.

It's 2017. The world is flat for tech workers.
H1B may be cheaper than an American in some cases, but hiring overseas is even cheaper. So it's not like you don't have to compete with a guy just because US didn't give him a visa, if anything, you now have to compete against him on a far more tilted playing field. Now, there is a fixed cost to opening an office overseas, so for hiring each incremental worker, it doesn't always make sense. But if H1B supply is cut off, a lot more companies will be forced to eat that cost, simply to staff their projects. And once the company opens an office overseas, it has already absorbed a big fixed cost, and incremental cost of hiring there is much cheaper, so many those jobs may never be even offered to Americans at all. So the choice is not between competing with foreign talent or not, it's between competing with them here in the US, or being shut out of competition completely. There are already a lot of tech jobs at US companies that automatically get hired overseas and aren't offered to Americans or H1Bs anymore. Right now it's boom time, and everyone is making money hand over fist, so it doesn't matter, but when the bust comes, we'll see how it plays out. My expectation is that top talent will be hired regardless of location, but supporting talent will be mostly hired in overseas offices.

 

[raildogg]

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/india-stocks-slip-amid-worries-093011827.html

Just read some of those comments.

Another example of how much hate there is nowadays and how much it is spreading to every corner to life.

 

[theeedude]

Deport the asteroid and Make Pangaea Great Again!

 

[superstition]

I think it's really questionable, the basic premise of the H1B in the first place.

The notion that a huge country like America, one with so many high-quality, and expensive, universities, can't manage to create enough skilled workers.

Rubbish.

It's just outsourcing to pad the coffers of the CEO class.

It's no different than the way the ABA gave its enthusiastic blessing to Indian attorneys doing the bulk of the legal work so firms can pay peanuts for it and keep all the wealth for the very top. Meanwhile, more law schools open and more and more law graduates are minted in the USA so they can work at Hobby Lobby as cashiers.

 

[werepossum]

It's 2017. The world is flat for tech workers.
H1B may be cheaper than an American in some cases, but hiring overseas is even cheaper. So it's not like you don't have to compete with a guy just because US didn't give him a visa, if anything, you now have to compete against him on a far more tilted playing field. Now, there is a fixed cost to opening an office overseas, so for hiring each incremental worker, it doesn't always make sense. But if H1B supply is cut off, a lot more companies will be forced to eat that cost, simply to staff their projects. And once the company opens an office overseas, it has already absorbed a big fixed cost, and incremental cost of hiring there is much cheaper, so many those jobs may never be even offered to Americans at all. So the choice is not between competing with foreign talent or not, it's between competing with them here in the US, or being shut out of competition completely. There are already a lot of tech jobs at US companies that automatically get hired overseas and aren't offered to Americans or H1Bs anymore. Right now it's boom time, and everyone is making money hand over fist, so it doesn't matter, but when the bust comes, we'll see how it plays out. My expectation is that top talent will be hired regardless of location, but supporting talent will be mostly hired in overseas offices.

So what happens when America runs out of IP, stock, and real estate to sell off to pay for our imported manufactures and labor?

Deport the asteroid and Make Pangaea Great Again!

lol +1

I think it's really questionable, the basic premise of the H1B in the first place.

The notion that a huge country like America, one with so many high-quality, and expensive, universities, can't manage to create enough skilled workers.

Rubbish.

It's just outsourcing to pad the coffers of the CEO class.

It's no different than the way the ABA gave its enthusiastic blessing to Indian attorneys doing the bulk of the legal work so firms can pay peanuts for it and keep all the wealth for the very top. Meanwhile, more law schools open and more and more law graduates are minted in the USA so they can work at Hobby Lobby as cashiers.

Agreed. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, there aren't enough Americans going into STEM fields because STEM jobs are going either to immigrants or overseas. Our growth industries are government and grievance farmers.

If we set up and maintain a system that makes it profitable to outsource labor and/or bring in cheap labor, then that is what companies will do. Those who choose not to do so will be out-competed or outgrown and bought up by those more profitable companies that do. It's the same with relying on corporations to not pollute - those who don't give a damn about the environment or future will have a huge competitive edge over those who do.

 

[Vic]

At least with H1B, the foreign workers are paying US taxes and spending money in the US. Get rid of that and ALL of the money goes overseas.

 

[superstition]

At least with H1B, the foreign workers are paying US taxes and spending money in the US. Get rid of that and ALL of the money goes overseas.

No. Educate, hire, and pay — within.

 

[brandonbull]

At least with H1B, the foreign workers are paying US taxes and spending money in the US. Get rid of that and ALL of the money goes overseas.

Maybe the awesome Silicon valley tech giants should part with a few of their billions so they retain, train and educate US citizens. I guess a rising tide doesn't raise all ships.

 

[Vic]

Maybe the awesome Silicon valley tech giants should part with a few of their billions so they retain, train and educate US citizens. I guess a rising tide doesn't raise all ships.

So you're saying that we should raise taxes on the rich in order to fund public higher education?

Yeah, that's not going to be happening with Trump in the White House.

 

[werepossum]

At least with H1B, the foreign workers are paying US taxes and spending money in the US. Get rid of that and ALL of the money goes overseas.

Unless we structure our taxes and tariffs so that it's actually more profitable to use Americans.

Maybe the awesome Silicon valley tech giants should part with a few of their billions so they retain, train and educate US citizens. I guess a rising tide doesn't raise all ships.

Nowadays a rising tide just carries ships to China. Empty ships.

 

[theeedude]

Maybe the awesome Silicon valley tech giants should part with a few of their billions so they retain, train and educate US citizens. I guess a rising tide doesn't raise all ships.

SV does not discriminate by citizenship.