Congress to Aid 2.2 Million Sub-Prime Borrowers

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Cal166

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
5,081
8
81
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Ipno
What is a subprime loan?
Typical example. These people knew they couldn't afford it, but were stupid enough to get the loan. Thus, the people are the main culprit and deserve financial hardship for the bad decision. On the other hand, the mortgage company should be filled with good mathematicians who knew they were offering a loan that couldn't possibly be paid in any realistic scenario. I call them enablers.

Congress should step in and help prevent these bad loans. Congress should not just bail out the bad borrowers.

The Sanons had diligently saved $5,000 in preparation to buy their first home, but the sum was just enough to cover the closing costs. So to finance the $290,000 purchase price of a Waltham, Mass home, they took one loan for $232,000 and also a piggyback loan for $58,000, both from New Century Financial, a subprime lender.

They got what's coming.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: ElFenix
general mortgage question for those in the industry: do people typically put down a % anymore, or is it all financed with an 80/20 or 75/25?

First-time buyers are usually the only ones not putting money down.
 

bennylong

Platinum Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,493
0
0
Originally posted by: jjsole
I think its fantastic. :thumbsup:

With congressional welfare like this, maybe there is still hope for getting a refund on all our .com bubble losses. :laugh:

I hear ya! I lost $50k gambling in Dot com stocks in 2000, 2001 and I'm still writing off the $3k cap. lost on my return every year.

Where is Congress going to help us out????

I have been saving like a hermit so I can buy a house when the price is reasonable, but now I have to pay more taxes to help out the idiots that should have never bought their house???

WTF WTF.
 

slsmnaz

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2005
4,016
0
0
Originally posted by: bennylong
Originally posted by: jjsole
I think its fantastic. :thumbsup:

With congressional welfare like this, maybe there is still hope for getting a refund on all our .com bubble losses. :laugh:

I hear ya! I lost $50k gambling in Dot com stocks in 2000, 2001 and I'm still writing off the $3k cap. lost on my return every year.

Where is Congress going to help us out????

I have been saving like a hermit so I can buy a house when the price is reasonable, but now I have to pay more taxes to help out the idiots that should have never bought their house???

WTF WTF.

Great rant on financial responsibility :laugh:
 

KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
Write my congressmen?

Ha! I stopped doing that. It only aggravated me. No matter what I say... the still want free medical for all, open borders, amnesty for illegals (with free medical, free education and in state fees for college) and higher property taxes.

I would bet they think taking taxpayers money to supplement sub-primers would be a great idea.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
We're shipping a lot more of our taxpayer treasure into Iraq weekly.

You guys write any letters over that?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: mooglekit
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Democracy works until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

But really, we've been doing that for decades. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, WIC, etc etc etc.

Its getting to the point I wonder why the hell I even work anymore.

is there anything wrong with those programs you listed? without those programs our country would be a thirdworld country.

Lots of third world countries have strong central governments and social programs. It's the confidence and stability created by the equitable rule of law that keeps the US from being a third world country.


Agreed...I find it interesting when social security, medicare, medicaid and the likes are used as an example of something that sets the US apart from 3rd world countries. These programs are remnants of a period in American history (the Great Depression) when we essentially were a third world country in many regards (highly industrialized, yes, but a huge gap between rich and poor). When FDR put those policies in to place they were a fantastic idea and, along with numerous work programs and the employment push of a World War, managed to pull the US back into economic health. Problem is, the country became attached to the "benefits" in the process...these programs weren't meant to still be in existence 60 years later...

and now out of P&N and back to ATOT...

As much as I empathize with these people in their difficult times, this is something self inflicted; self inflicted by the homeowners upon themselves when they realized they couldn't afford the loan and took it anyways, and self inflicted by the businesses upon themselves when they chose to provide a loan knowing full well the persons receiving the loan would, in all likelihood, default. I refuse to feel sorry for or subsidize such a blatant example of financial irresponsibility.

What is there to feel empathy for? These people get to live in a house for practically free for about a year before they get foreclosed out and walk away from the loan scott-free and all it cost them is a few hundred points on their FICO.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Cal166
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Ipno
What is a subprime loan?
Typical example. These people knew they couldn't afford it, but were stupid enough to get the loan. Thus, the people are the main culprit and deserve financial hardship for the bad decision. On the other hand, the mortgage company should be filled with good mathematicians who knew they were offering a loan that couldn't possibly be paid in any realistic scenario. I call them enablers.

Congress should step in and help prevent these bad loans. Congress should not just bail out the bad borrowers.

The Sanons had diligently saved $5,000 in preparation to buy their first home, but the sum was just enough to cover the closing costs. So to finance the $290,000 purchase price of a Waltham, Mass home, they took one loan for $232,000 and also a piggyback loan for $58,000, both from New Century Financial, a subprime lender.

They got what's coming.

$5,000 wasn't enough, should be $50,000 to own a home right.

How bout eliminate mortgages and make it the full $232,000 to move in?
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,747
579
126
Wouldn't it be more efficient to replace congress with a giant toilet and a network of conveyor belts that moved my money from my wallet directly into said toilet?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
$5,000 wasn't enough, should be $50,000 to own a home right.

How bout eliminate mortgages and make it the full $232,000 to move in?

how about asking people to be smart?

Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: ElFenix
general mortgage question for those in the industry: do people typically put down a % anymore, or is it all financed with an 80/20 or 75/25?

First-time buyers are usually the only ones not putting money down.

first time buyers usually don't put money down? jeez, why am i throwing money away on rent?
 

PKPunk

Senior member
Feb 26, 2001
384
0
0
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Ipno
What is a subprime loan?
Typical example. These people knew they couldn't afford it, but were stupid enough to get the loan. Thus, the people are the main culprit and deserve financial hardship for the bad decision. On the other hand, the mortgage company should be filled with good mathematicians who knew they were offering a loan that couldn't possibly be paid in any realistic scenario. I call them enablers.

Congress should step in and help prevent these bad loans. Congress should not just bail out the bad borrowers.

I haven't read all the posts but I agree, something should be changed with the way loans are done. I've got a friend who is a loan officer and he is the sleaziest person I know. He would rather give a loan to a person with bad credit because he gets more commission with higher interests rates and backend points through pre pay penalties. He's got all sorts of tricks he can do to up someone?s credit to an acceptable level and then push through the paper work. He walks away with like 15-20k commission and the person walks away a loan they probably can't afford...or won't be able to afford after a few years.

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: PKPunk
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Ipno
What is a subprime loan?
Typical example. These people knew they couldn't afford it, but were stupid enough to get the loan. Thus, the people are the main culprit and deserve financial hardship for the bad decision. On the other hand, the mortgage company should be filled with good mathematicians who knew they were offering a loan that couldn't possibly be paid in any realistic scenario. I call them enablers.

Congress should step in and help prevent these bad loans. Congress should not just bail out the bad borrowers.

I haven't read all the posts but I agree, something should be changed with the way loans are done. I've got a friend who is a loan officer and he is the sleaziest person I know. He would rather give a loan to a person with bad credit because he gets more commission with higher interests rates and backend points through pre pay penalties. He's got all sorts of tricks he can do to up someone?s credit to an acceptable level and then push through the paper work. He walks away with like 15-20k commission and the person walks away a loan they probably can't afford...or won't be able to afford after a few years.

ex salesman at our company now works for a subprime lender selling neg-ams...let's just say after 1 year he was driving a bentley and move to beverly hills
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: PKPunk
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Ipno
What is a subprime loan?
Typical example. These people knew they couldn't afford it, but were stupid enough to get the loan. Thus, the people are the main culprit and deserve financial hardship for the bad decision. On the other hand, the mortgage company should be filled with good mathematicians who knew they were offering a loan that couldn't possibly be paid in any realistic scenario. I call them enablers.

Congress should step in and help prevent these bad loans. Congress should not just bail out the bad borrowers.

I haven't read all the posts but I agree, something should be changed with the way loans are done. I've got a friend who is a loan officer and he is the sleaziest person I know. He would rather give a loan to a person with bad credit because he gets more commission with higher interests rates and backend points through pre pay penalties. He's got all sorts of tricks he can do to up someone?s credit to an acceptable level and then push through the paper work. He walks away with like 15-20k commission and the person walks away a loan they probably can't afford...or won't be able to afford after a few years.

He'll need the commission once his subprime employer goes under, like many are expected to do this year.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Democracy works until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

But really, we've been doing that for decades. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, WIC, etc etc etc.

Its getting to the point I wonder why the hell I even work anymore.

is there anything wrong with those programs you listed? without those programs our country would be a thirdworld country.

Lots of third world countries have strong central governments and social programs. It's the confidence and stability created by the equitable rule of law that keeps the US from being a third world country.


really? humm when i drive home tonight ill count how many shanty towns i see, or how many times i get hit up by starving kids for food.

SOrry man, i have been to quite a few third world countries and let me tell you there is nothing in the US that even comes close to comparison.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: mooglekit
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Democracy works until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

But really, we've been doing that for decades. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, WIC, etc etc etc.

Its getting to the point I wonder why the hell I even work anymore.

is there anything wrong with those programs you listed? without those programs our country would be a thirdworld country.

Lots of third world countries have strong central governments and social programs. It's the confidence and stability created by the equitable rule of law that keeps the US from being a third world country.


Agreed...I find it interesting when social security, medicare, medicaid and the likes are used as an example of something that sets the US apart from 3rd world countries. These programs are remnants of a period in American history (the Great Depression) when we essentially were a third world country in many regards (highly industrialized, yes, but a huge gap between rich and poor). When FDR put those policies in to place they were a fantastic idea and, along with numerous work programs and the employment push of a World War, managed to pull the US back into economic health. Problem is, the country became attached to the "benefits" in the process...these programs weren't meant to still be in existence 60 years later...
and now out of P&N and back to ATOT...

As much as I empathize with these people in their difficult times, this is something self inflicted; self inflicted by the homeowners upon themselves when they realized they couldn't afford the loan and took it anyways, and self inflicted by the businesses upon themselves when they chose to provide a loan knowing full well the persons receiving the loan would, in all likelihood, default. I refuse to feel sorry for or subsidize such a blatant example of financial irresponsibility.

1. its a fact.

2. you are wrong.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Democracy works until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

But really, we've been doing that for decades. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, WIC, etc etc etc.

Its getting to the point I wonder why the hell I even work anymore.

is there anything wrong with those programs you listed? without those programs our country would be a thirdworld country.

Lots of third world countries have strong central governments and social programs. It's the confidence and stability created by the equitable rule of law that keeps the US from being a third world country.


really? humm when i drive home tonight ill count how many shanty towns i see, or how many times i get hit up by starving kids for food.

SOrry man, i have been to quite a few third world countries and let me tell you there is nothing in the US that even comes close to comparison.

I think you and Vic are in miscommunication
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Write your congressman and tell him you'll fire his ass if he votes to bail out a bunch of morons who made what any reasonably intelligent and sensible person could recognize is a piss-poor financial decision.

:|
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
you know... damn near every new industry niche goes through this same initial boom and then a big bust period where a large percentage of the firms fail... why anyone thought it'd be any different with the boom of the subprime mortgage industry i don't know.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,357
8,446
126
Originally posted by: bennylong
WTF is next? Bailout people with $100k student loans??? Free ride for everyone!
you used to be able to discharge student loans in bankruptcy. so many people in a certain field with a particularly large debt load *cough*doctors*cough* would graduate, immediately file chapter 7, have a night of discomfort, and then rake in a large paycheck the day after filing, meanwhile never paying a dime on the loans.
 

bennylong

Platinum Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,493
0
0
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: bennylong
WTF is next? Bailout people with $100k student loans??? Free ride for everyone!
you used to be able to discharge student loans in bankruptcy. so many people in a certain field with a particularly large debt load *cough*doctors*cough* would graduate, immediately file chapter 7, have a night of discomfort, and then rake in a large paycheck the day after filing, meanwhile never paying a dime on the loans.

Those *cough*law students*med student*cough* used to apply for tons of credit cards, write checks on those credit cards to pay off student loans and file for bankruptcy a year later.

They changed the bankruptcy laws so you can no longer discharge your credit card if you paid off student loan or taxes with your CC and file for BK later
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: PKPunk
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Ipno
What is a subprime loan?
Typical example. These people knew they couldn't afford it, but were stupid enough to get the loan. Thus, the people are the main culprit and deserve financial hardship for the bad decision. On the other hand, the mortgage company should be filled with good mathematicians who knew they were offering a loan that couldn't possibly be paid in any realistic scenario. I call them enablers.

Congress should step in and help prevent these bad loans. Congress should not just bail out the bad borrowers.

I haven't read all the posts but I agree, something should be changed with the way loans are done. I've got a friend who is a loan officer and he is the sleaziest person I know. He would rather give a loan to a person with bad credit because he gets more commission with higher interests rates and backend points through pre pay penalties. He's got all sorts of tricks he can do to up someone?s credit to an acceptable level and then push through the paper work. He walks away with like 15-20k commission and the person walks away a loan they probably can't afford...or won't be able to afford after a few years.
You're full of it. The days of huge rebates (as "back-end points" are called) in the subprime mortgage industry came and went a decade ago. The lenders have tightly controlled rebates ever since, usually to 1-2 points max, depending on the lender. The largest rebates still come from FHA/VA loans, with Fannie Mae conforming loans running a relatively close 2nd. Federal and state laws control the maximum amount of costs and rebates in the transaction, typically to a 5% max, which is the tightest mandated gross profit margin of any industry in America.
It is true that subprime borrowers tend to be very non-savvy though
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Democracy works until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

But really, we've been doing that for decades. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, WIC, etc etc etc.

Its getting to the point I wonder why the hell I even work anymore.

is there anything wrong with those programs you listed? without those programs our country would be a thirdworld country.

Lots of third world countries have strong central governments and social programs. It's the confidence and stability created by the equitable rule of law that keeps the US from being a third world country.

really? humm when i drive home tonight ill count how many shanty towns i see, or how many times i get hit up by starving kids for food.

SOrry man, i have been to quite a few third world countries and let me tell you there is nothing in the US that even comes close to comparison.

'Cause the standard of living is sky-high in North Korea?...
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Democracy works until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

But really, we've been doing that for decades. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, WIC, etc etc etc.

Its getting to the point I wonder why the hell I even work anymore.

is there anything wrong with those programs you listed? without those programs our country would be a thirdworld country.

Lots of third world countries have strong central governments and social programs. It's the confidence and stability created by the equitable rule of law that keeps the US from being a third world country.

really? humm when i drive home tonight ill count how many shanty towns i see, or how many times i get hit up by starving kids for food.

SOrry man, i have been to quite a few third world countries and let me tell you there is nothing in the US that even comes close to comparison.

'Cause the standard of living is sky-high in North Korea?...

I think Citrix thinks only first world countries have strong central govt and social programs...he fails to realize third world countries are poor BECAUSE of the restrictive govt and failing social programs.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Democracy works until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury.

But really, we've been doing that for decades. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, WIC, etc etc etc.

Its getting to the point I wonder why the hell I even work anymore.

is there anything wrong with those programs you listed? without those programs our country would be a thirdworld country.

Lots of third world countries have strong central governments and social programs. It's the confidence and stability created by the equitable rule of law that keeps the US from being a third world country.

really? humm when i drive home tonight ill count how many shanty towns i see, or how many times i get hit up by starving kids for food.

SOrry man, i have been to quite a few third world countries and let me tell you there is nothing in the US that even comes close to comparison.

'Cause the standard of living is sky-high in North Korea?...

I think Citrix thinks only first world countries have strong central govt and social programs...he fails to realize third world countries are poor BECAUSE of the restrictive govt and failing social programs.

Well... I wouldn't say that either. I'd say they're poor because of a lack of equitable rule of law. For example, you could buy a house, but why when the corrupt government/dictator might decide to take it from you the day after you buy it? Or you could start a business, but why when the corrupt government/dictator/bureaucrat could shut you down for failing to pay the proper bribes or because your business is in competition with the mayor's brother-in-law's business or whatever.
There's no confidence in the system, and because of that no incentive to invest. Quite the opposite, you'd be a fool if you did. That's what plagues third world countries.