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Congratulations to President Trump for presiding over job growth ALMOST as good as President Obama's

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
21,779
6,393
136
Since Trump claims he created the greatest economy of all time. Let's compare the last 2 years of the Obama economy vs the first 2 years of Trump's. Read the article and ask, "Did Trump really change the trajectory of any part of our economy??

Just the numbers no spin...

Last 2 years of Obama
2.7 million jobs created 2015
2.24 Million jobs created 2016
4.94 million total

First 2 years of Trump
2.19 million jobs created 2017
2.64 million jobs created 2018
4.83 million total

Way to go Donnie for almost being as good on job creation as Barry


https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2019/mar/13/matthew-dowd/did-obamas-final-years-beat-trump-jobs-stock-value/
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/job-growth-showed-surprising-strength-the-end-2018
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,330
342
126
You mean "for coasting on the actual work the President Obama did in helping create a recovery that is still doing ok by the commonly used metrics (which isn't always the best but...) despite Trump's dumb AF policies that can still wreck it."


_____________
 
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nakedfrog

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
49,290
2,232
126
Yeah, but under Obama, those were fake numbers, now we're seeing the real numbers. If anything, they're probably underplaying the real numbers now, the Obama numbers were so, so fake, they're saying the real numbers might even be in the negative, that's how bad they are. Real numbers under Trump are probably closer to 5-6 million.

/s in case it wsn't glaringly obvious
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
25,108
4,618
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Trump gets credit for 2016 the same way Obama gets credit for 2008. Everyone knows that the economy tanked in 2008 because they knew Obama was going to be elected and everyone knows the economy started getting really strong in 2016 in anticipation of Trump's reign. Plus Obama cooked his books while Trump is the straight shooter we've sorely needed. Plus fuck you, you're a liberal.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,772
1,342
126
Since Trump claims he created the greatest economy of all time. Let's compare the last 2 years of the Obama economy vs the first 2 years of Trump's. Read the article and ask, "Did Trump really change the trajectory of any part of our economy??

Just the numbers no spin...

Last 2 years of Obama
2.7 million jobs created 2015
2.24 Million jobs created 2016
4.94 million total

First 2 years of Trump
2.19 million jobs created 2017
2.64 million jobs created 2018
4.83 million total

Way to go Donnie for almost being as good on job creation as Barry


https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2019/mar/13/matthew-dowd/did-obamas-final-years-beat-trump-jobs-stock-value/
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/job-growth-showed-surprising-strength-the-end-2018
You also need to look at where the job creation resides. The Trump economy is driving job growth in manufacturing and low tax red states. Its one of the few promises he delivered on that are a net positive.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
6,272
1,867
136
You also need to look at where the job creation resides. The Trump economy is driving job growth in manufacturing and low tax red states. Its one of the few promises he delivered on that are a net positive.
Think you're wrong on that. I remember reading most of the job gains are in coastal states.
 

Stryke1983

Member
Jan 1, 2016
159
207
116
You also need to look at where the job creation resides. The Trump economy is driving job growth in manufacturing and low tax red states. Its one of the few promises he delivered on that are a net positive.
What has Trump actually done to cause that though? Job growth overall is similar to what it was before he took power. What policies has he implemented that affect manufacturing specifically? In addition to that, my understanding is that manufacturing growth, while real, is actually lower than the last peak a few years ago. What makes this recent boost different from the last one, rather than just another part of the cycle?

Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, Trump economic policy can currently be summarized as: Increased the national debt and introduced large amounts of short term instability to the economy in exchange for zero gain over prevailing trends. In terms of promises being delivered, those gains in manufacturing and red states would almost certainly have happened anyway.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,772
1,342
126
Think you're wrong on that. I remember reading most of the job gains are in coastal states.
What has Trump actually done to cause that though? Job growth overall is similar to what it was before he took power. What policies has he implemented that affect manufacturing specifically? In addition to that, my understanding is that manufacturing growth, while real, is actually lower than the last peak a few years ago. What makes this recent boost different from the last one, rather than just another part of the cycle?

Unless there is new evidence to the contrary, Trump economic policy can currently be summarized as: Increased the national debt and introduced large amounts of short term instability to the economy in exchange for zero gain over prevailing trends. In terms of promises being delivered, those gains in manufacturing and red states would almost certainly have happened anyway.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/04/05/trumps-economy-keeps-humming-manufacturing-adding-more-jobs-than-government-reversing-obama-trend/

From the article:
“However, a substantial difference can be seen in the job gains in the manufacturing sector compared to the government employment sector (federal, state and local) under the two administrations, with government at all levels adding 407,000 jobs in Obama’s last 27 months compared to 215,000 jobs since Trump took office. Manufacturing employment was in stark contrast, with manufacturers adding only 129,000 jobs during Obama’s last 27 months compared to 466,000 jobs since Trump took office, implementing a series of deregulatory measures and tax cuts that have encouraged industrial production and investment.”

I need to find the other Forbes article that cites data of job growth in low tax states.

A seperate argument can be made as to whether or not this job growth is in the right markets or industries, or if its sustainable.

I also don’t subsribe to the idea that a President can solely steer any economy despite what the narratives believe.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
18,732
342
126
By pure numbers this is absolutely true. By those numbers also, the top job creator was Bill Clinton; however, Obama technically had an easier job, as unemployment was up, certain markets had crumbled, and those conditions make it easier to create jobs. Not taking anything away from Obama on this at all; however, over the last year, job growth is irrelevant as now we have over a million jobs more than unemployed. So what good is job creation when there arent people to fill them?


edit: also, there are PLENTY of jobs in every profession from non skilled to blue collar to professional.

6. Software and IT services
5. Energy and mining
4. Corporate services
3. Transportation and logistics
2. Manufacturing
1. Agriculture
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
21,779
6,393
136
You also need to look at where the job creation resides. The Trump economy is driving job growth in manufacturing and low tax red states. Its one of the few promises he delivered on that are a net positive.
I get it. The rest of the states don't matter.

BTW - You wouldn't happen to have the average wage of all these so called Trump created red state jobs??
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
21,779
6,393
136
By pure numbers this is absolutely true. By those numbers also, the top job creator was Bill Clinton; however, Obama technically had an easier job, as unemployment was up, certain markets had crumbled, and those conditions make it easier to create jobs. Not taking anything away from Obama on this at all; however, over the last year, job growth is irrelevant as now we have over a million jobs more than unemployed. So what good is job creation when there arent people to fill them?


edit: also, there are PLENTY of jobs in every profession from non skilled to blue collar to professional.

6. Software and IT services
5. Energy and mining
4. Corporate services
3. Transportation and logistics
2. Manufacturing
1. Agriculture
Only in the mind of a blind Trump supporter could the premise that the guy who took over when we were losing 800K jobs/month had an easier time. Vs the guy who came in and had to do nothing but allow the snowball to continue to roll downhill.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,772
1,342
126
I get it. The rest of the states don't matter.

BTW - You wouldn't happen to have the average wage of all these so called Trump created red state jobs??
Another way of looking at it is that there is more geographical balance to our economic growth, which is far more advantageous to the country.

Shifting the discussion to wages is just moving the goal posts. It is possible to acknowledge a healthy economy without indulging the pointless tribalism of who gets credit for it.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
21,779
6,393
136
Another way of looking at it is that there is more geographical balance to our economic growth, which is far more advantageous to the country.

Shifting the discussion to wages is just moving the goal posts. It is possible to acknowledge a healthy economy without indulging the pointless tribalism of who gets credit for it.
If it is pointless then why does Trump claim total credit??

What's wrong with telling the truth about the 10 year economic recovery??

Also discussing wages is a useful discussion if there is a claim Trump created all these red state jobs. If they are mostly minimum wage the numbers are hollow.

Also I think it is a bit selfish just to create jobs for his base.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,010
126
They were numbers good enough to get Obama re-elected and might be enough for Trump also. Guess OP wanted to remind voters of this as the Dem candidates continue rolling out so they didn’t get distracted by the shiny new objects.
 

Stryke1983

Member
Jan 1, 2016
159
207
116
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/04/05/trumps-economy-keeps-humming-manufacturing-adding-more-jobs-than-government-reversing-obama-trend/

From the article:
“However, a substantial difference can be seen in the job gains in the manufacturing sector compared to the government employment sector (federal, state and local) under the two administrations, with government at all levels adding 407,000 jobs in Obama’s last 27 months compared to 215,000 jobs since Trump took office. Manufacturing employment was in stark contrast, with manufacturers adding only 129,000 jobs during Obama’s last 27 months compared to 466,000 jobs since Trump took office, implementing a series of deregulatory measures and tax cuts that have encouraged industrial production and investment.”

I need to find the other Forbes article that cites data of job growth in low tax states.

A seperate argument can be made as to whether or not this job growth is in the right markets or industries, or if its sustainable.

I also don’t subsribe to the idea that a President can solely steer any economy despite what the narratives believe.
I'd come across this graph when I was doing some cursory research earlier. Which, unless I'm misunderstanding it, just tells me that things are returning to what they were earlier in Obama's stint. The tax cuts and regulation headlines sound good. But the actions of the companies I've heard of indicate the tax cuts went to shareholders, not new jobs or other investment. I haven't heard much about the impact of the regulation changes but, if it's like most of the other stuff from this administration, it'll be all noise and little substance. Then you've got the negative impact of tariffs on whatever hypothetical improvement this administration has caused.

1557195219643.png
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,323
5,663
126
You also need to look at where the job creation resides. The Trump economy is driving job growth in manufacturing and low tax red states. Its one of the few promises he delivered on that are a net positive.
Construction and manufacturing jobs always go up at the mature end of an economic cycle.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,564
2,605
126
If it is pointless then why does Trump claim total credit??

What's wrong with telling the truth about the 10 year economic recovery??

Also discussing wages is a useful discussion if there is a claim Trump created all these red state jobs. If they are mostly minimum wage the numbers are hollow.

Also I think it is a bit selfish just to create jobs for his base.
When is a Libertarian weasel not a Libertarian weasel? lol.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,772
1,342
126
If it is pointless then why does Trump claim total credit??
Why are you trying to make the conversation about Obama? I’ve noticed a push since the Mueller report to shift the conversation to the economy, and who gets “credit” for it.

What's wrong with telling the truth about the 10 year economic recovery??
It’s the truth you want to believe. Yes, there has been a decade long upswing, what specific policies of any President directly contributed to it?

Also discussing wages is a useful discussion if there is a claim Trump created all these red state jobs. If they are mostly minimum wage the numbers are hollow.
To the person with no employment prospects, that job is not hollow

Also I think it is a bit selfish just to create jobs for his base.
Not selfish at all. Trump won because he was attentive to blue collar regions of the country long neglected, and there are some indicators of economic benefit and tax relief. Again, we can debate the sustainability or merits of those policies.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
27,545
6,815
136
Why are you trying to make the conversation about Obama? I’ve noticed a push since the Mueller report to shift the conversation to the economy, and who gets “credit” for it.

It’s the truth you want to believe. Yes, there has been a decade long upswing, what specific policies of any President directly contributed to it?

To the person with no employment prospects, that job is not hollow

Not selfish at all. Trump won because he was attentive to blue collar regions of the country long neglected, and there are some indicators of economic benefit and tax relief. Again, we can debate the sustainability or merits of those policies.
This is relatively useless, and I assume unintentional, trolling by you. The topic of the economy and who gets credit never disappeared. The "truth" you want to believe? lol....

To the person with no employment prospects, the job at minimum wage may not be alluring at all. And to be candid, minimum wage jobs by corporate employers are not only disappearing, but heavily subsidized by the government via economic support for that employee.

Trump didn't win because of his attentiveness to blue collar regions long neglected, lol....you're funny. that's just a blatantly simplified version of events that neglects major contributing factors to his narrow win.

Now, there's been at least one link pointing out where the tax cuts really went to (as expected by the professed plans of quite a few higher ups) and where the job growth actually has been. can you provide any empirical data to suggest otherwise or support your assertions?

Also, economic policies under Obama has a nice little wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Barack_Obama_administration
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
12,772
1,342
126
This is relatively useless, and I assume unintentional, trolling by you. The topic of the economy and who gets credit never disappeared. The "truth" you want to believe? lol....
Challenging the premise of the OP is not trolling. As I said previously in the thread, there has been an obvious and recent shift to discussing the economy. Talking points issued.

To the person with no employment prospects, the job at minimum wage may not be alluring at all. And to be candid, minimum wage jobs by corporate employers are not only disappearing, but heavily subsidized by the government via economic support for that employee.
Poor paying service jobs is an undercurrent to our entire country, among other things fueling the homeless epidemic in our urban centers.

Trump didn't win because of his attentiveness to blue collar regions long neglected, lol....you're funny. that's just a blatantly simplified version of events that neglects major contributing factors to his narrow win.
Yes, there were many factors, his attentiveness to the rust belt being one of the main drivers. To claim otherwise is ignorance. What “factors” carried Pennsylvania, a state Trump had no chance of winning, until he did.

Now, there's been at least one link pointing out where the tax cuts really went to (as expected by the professed plans of quite a few higher ups) and where the job growth actually has been. can you provide any empirical data to suggest otherwise or support your assertions?
I linked and quoted the Forbes article. Not sure what other evidence you need.

And 538, a site I consider quite data driven, has a nice little article on why Presidents have little impact on economic cycles. The 538 article links to an even better The Atlantic article:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-presidents-economic-decisions-matter-eventually/
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
27,545
6,815
136
Challenging the premise of the OP is not trolling. As I said previously in the thread, there has been an obvious and recent shift to discussing the economy. Talking points issued.

Poor paying service jobs is an undercurrent to our entire country, among other things fueling the homeless epidemic in our urban centers.

Yes, there were many factors, his attentiveness to the rust belt being one of the main drivers. To claim otherwise is ignorance. What “factors” carried Pennsylvania, a state Trump had no chance of winning, until he did.

I linked and quoted the Forbes article. Not sure what other evidence you need.

And 538, a site I consider quite data driven, has a nice little article on why Presidents have little impact on economic cycles. The 538 article links to an even better The Atlantic article:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-presidents-economic-decisions-matter-eventually/
To sum this up: we didn't talk about economic policies for two years, Trump's care and concern for blue collar states won him the election, and presidents have little impact on economic cycles.

Well, gotta wonder what all that hubub was about during 8 years of that black guy as POTUS. It's almost like republicans weren't sincere about anything, except their outright racism.
 

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