Congratulations Earthlings! Carbon dioxide reaches record high over millions of years.

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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
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If atmospheric CO2 hasn't been decreasing since we started monitoring it, every measurement would be a new record high...right?

Topic title seems to be sensationalized a bit. I read that and thought: "Uh...yeah. Obviously."
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
14,484
146
Someone tell China and India that their citizens aren't allowed to enjoy 1st world comforts like air conditioning and cars because they are killing the planet....they need to go back to living in caves or something to protect our grand kid's kids...

Why would we want to do that?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Elon Musk. SpaceX. Yes.
I was thinging of something I heard on the radio years ago, an unbelievable argument being made that nuclear disarmorment would be bad for the economy because of the jobs that would be lost. This was for me a real wake up call as to how far gone the brain dead can be. I often forget to use some sort of tell, like quotes, when I’m channeling the voices of idiots perhaps because I’m rather indifferent to being thought of one regardless of what I say.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
If atmospheric CO2 hasn't been decreasing since we started monitoring it, every measurement would be a new record high...right?

Topic title seems to be sensationalized a bit. I read that and though. "Uh...yeah. Obviously."
Right. I heard the same indifference from frogs in a pot that adduced the temperature would likely continue to rise because there was a fire under it.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,402
386
126
And the best way to remove it from the air is more plants, but we keep cutting down the forests and putting in parking lots. We are screwed.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,709
136
Someone tell China and India that their citizens aren't allowed to enjoy 1st world comforts like air conditioning and cars because they are killing the planet....they need to go back to living in caves or something to protect our grand kid's kids...
china is doing more with renewable energy than we are so they see what you don't:

http://www.dw.com/en/china-leads-in-global-shift-to-renewable-energy/a-43266203
https://futurism.com/china-new-world-leader-renewable-energy/
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/22/her...-mind-boggling-renewable-energy-projects.html
 
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overst33r

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,761
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If atmospheric CO2 hasn't been decreasing since we started monitoring it, every measurement would be a new record high...right?

Topic title seems to be sensationalized a bit. I read that and though. "Uh...yeah. Obviously."

As with any number, it needs context...

203_co2-graph-021116.jpeg
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,087
37,282
136

China made a decision to try owning the future by determining what it is with their enormous economy and population. While we sit on our asses and drill holes in the ground waxing poetic about the nobility of a bunch of poor bastards we gave black lung to for a little fatter profit margin.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Thread title is untrue. Long term, CO2 levels are far closer to record lows than they are to record highs. Can OP please edit title to become truthful?

How about this? CO2 highest levels in millions of years? That's more accurate.

But here's the thing, just how quickly we got here.

co2_data_mlo_anngr.png


I know Pruitt and others don't want to let facts impact policy but the science condemns them.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
If atmospheric CO2 hasn't been decreasing since we started monitoring it, every measurement would be a new record high...right?

Topic title seems to be sensationalized a bit. I read that and though. "Uh...yeah. Obviously."

No - Ice core samples.

"Carbon dioxide has not reached this height in millions of years"
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
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I find it rather ironic that while we are reducing our investment into solar power, although I'm not sure about overall renewables, Saudi Arabia is building a solar project that will produce over twice the power that they currently use. They will have to keep a few oil-fired plants for backup at night, part of the project is battery storage but I haven't dug into the details, but for the most part their entire country will be powered by solar. Not only that but they will be able to export solar electricity while greatly expanding industry at the same time. But nope, we just can't compete with the likes of Saudi Arabia or China.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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I find it rather ironic that while we are reducing our investment into solar power, although I'm not sure about overall renewables, Saudi Arabia is building a solar project that will produce over twice the power that they currently use. They will have to keep a few oil-fired plants for backup at night, part of the project is battery storage but I haven't dug into the details, but for the most part their entire country will be powered by solar. Not only that but they will be able to export solar electricity while greatly expanding industry at the same time. But nope, we just can't compete with the likes of Saudi Arabia or China.

Well we could always cut the f-35 program by a third and research more efficient solar and storage solution, then retain the IP and license it out to companies to produce. Hardly anyone wants merit-based answers though.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,938
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How is the heat retention of a gas measured? I'd like to see the energy retention difference between N and CO2 expressed as a percentage, or even the raw numbers.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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I find it rather ironic that while we are reducing our investment into solar power, although I'm not sure about overall renewables, Saudi Arabia is building a solar project that will produce over twice the power that they currently use. They will have to keep a few oil-fired plants for backup at night, part of the project is battery storage but I haven't dug into the details, but for the most part their entire country will be powered by solar. Not only that but they will be able to export solar electricity while greatly expanding industry at the same time. But nope, we just can't compete with the likes of Saudi Arabia or China.

I’m also guessing that unlike here they don’t cater to the extreme environmentalists who actually stop these projects. Then NIMBY or BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything) would hold up for decades any projects here on any contrived grounds they would come up with. In Saudi those folks would probably be imprisoned.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
I’m also guessing that unlike here they don’t cater to the extreme environmentalists who actually stop these projects. Then NIMBY or BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything) would hold up for decades any projects here on any contrived grounds they would come up with. In Saudi those folks would probably be imprisoned.

Can you give an example where "extremist" have stopped "these" projects?

And I had to look up nimby, Banana I have no clue, why not just go with the explanation.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,087
37,282
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Well we could always cut the f-35 program by a third and research more efficient solar and storage solution, then retain the IP and license it out to companies to produce. Hardly anyone wants merit-based answers though.

At this point bringing the cost down on storage and adding more transmission is what's needed. Renewable power has hit cost parity (and then some) with fossil energy. Battery costs continue falling and utility scale storage is already eating at the gas peaking market.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,007
8,040
136

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,087
37,282
136
Can you give an example where "extremist" have stopped "these" projects?

And I had to look up nimby, Banana I have no clue, why not just go with the explanation.

There has been some opposition in CA I know for more onshore wind from groups like CA Sierra Club chapter (who is nuts and routinely sues to prevent housing from being built). NIMBYism knows no real partisan boundaries and implying such is simply wrong.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Can you give an example where "extremist" have stopped "these" projects?

And I had to look up nimby, Banana I have no clue, why not just go with the explanation.

Just do a simple google search and you can find hundreds of examples of stories like this: Maryland green energy projects stall amid protests from worried neighbors. Why do you think it takes decades to build any green projects in the U.S. between the environmental impact studies, protests, and everything else? Lots of self-styled "environmentalists" are just anti-capitalists whose public calls for green projects are actually just attempts to stop all economic activity and will actively oppose those same green projects when they are actually going to be built.

Plenty of example of this; can't have windmills because they chop up birds or obstruct sightlines for rich people like Ted Kennedy, can't have solar because it fries birds or instead displaces tortoises, can't have nuclear because obviously nuclear waste is worse than global warming, can't have hydro power because that impacts fish stocks and we're tearing down dams instead of building them, etc. No form, manner, or mode of green energy production is immune to this.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,087
37,282
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Just do a simple google search and you can find hundreds of examples of stories like this: Maryland green energy projects stall amid protests from worried neighbors. Why do you think it takes decades to build any green projects in the U.S. between the environmental impact studies, protests, and everything else? Lots of self-styled "environmentalists" are just anti-capitalists whose public calls for green projects are actually just attempts to stop all economic activity and will actively oppose those same green projects when they are actually going to be built.

Plenty of example of this; can't have windmills because they url=https://instituteforenergyresearch....-wind-and-solar-decimate-birds-and-bats/]chop up birds[/url] or obstruct sightlines for rich people like Ted Kennedy, can't have solar because it fries birds or instead displaces tortoises, can't have nuclear because obviously nuclear waste is worse than global warming, can't have hydro power because that impacts fish stocks and we're tearing down dams instead of building them, etc. No form, matter, or mode of green energy production is immune to this.

It does not take decades to build renewable power in the US, most of it anyway. The gain in non-hydro renewables over the past few years dispenses that notion. Many people hate change and local animus against such projects it the same that would cause a community to freak out if you proposed a three story building that would "ruin" their town.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
Just do a simple google search and you can find hundreds of examples of stories like this: Maryland green energy projects stall amid protests from worried neighbors. Why do you think it takes decades to build any green projects in the U.S. between the environmental impact studies, protests, and everything else? Lots of self-styled "environmentalists" are just anti-capitalists whose public calls for green projects are actually just attempts to stop all economic activity and will actively oppose those same green projects when they are actually going to be built.

Plenty of example of this; can't have windmills because they chop up birds or obstruct sightlines for rich people like Ted Kennedy, can't have solar because it fries birds or instead displaces tortoises, can't have nuclear because obviously nuclear waste is worse than global warming, can't have hydro power because that impacts fish stocks and we're tearing down dams instead of building them, etc. No form, manner, or mode of green energy production is immune to this.

So worried neighbors are extremist? Did you even read the article? These are just normal everyday residents who live near the site.

And the report about the solar plant is true how can facts be extremist?

Here in mayland Dan mountain in W MD is covered with wind turbines despite the article. And more are going up all over appalachia. You site a few examples and act as if its a major problem as if there is no alternative energy growth in the US while wind supases coal in jobs. Your last sentence is laughable as if there is a huge problem, there is not.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
14,484
146
Great...now all we need to do is "kindly" move all the folks off the equatorial rainforests. Rather unfortunate for them.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/amazon-rainforest-deforestation-crisis/article37722932/

Well it takes 60-80 years for the rainforests to fully regrow. In the mean time increasing their quality of living will reduce birth rates and population eventually, freeing up land for the rainforests. At least this is one ethical and potentially feasible option.

Maybe target those areas first with government subsidized poverty reduction.