Confused about Loongson 3 ??

[ajaidevsingh]

A friend told me about Loongson 3 and that it will be able to emulate x86 now the only other processor that does this at the hardware level is Transmeta. So does that mean hardware x86 emulation is not Transmeta's IP??

 

[jones377]

AFAIK Longsoon 3 implements the MIPS ISA with new extensions that makes it easier (better perf) to software emulate certain x86 opcodes, simular to how later model Itaniums (since Montecito I believe) emulate x86 with software in the OS. The first few Itaniums had an x86 hardware unit that acted as a frontend decoder and was transparent to software running on the OS. They later removed it and used software emulation. I don't believe Longsoon 3 actually emulates x86 in hardware.

 

[Idontcare]

Loongson 3

The 65nm Loongson 3 (Godson-3) is planned to run at a clock speed between 1 to 1.2 GHz, with 4 cores first (10W) and 8 cores later (20W), and it is expected by 2010[3]. It adds 200+ new instructions to speed up x86 instruction translation and run Windows [4]. The first version of the chip will only support DDR2 DRAM, will not have SMT support or a built-in network interface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson

 

[ajaidevsingh]

So it will not be full x86 hardware emulation as with Transmeta??

That means that it will be slow software emulation with extra support of the faster embedded instructions right..!!!

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: ajaidevsingh
So it will not be full x86 hardware emulation as with Transmeta??

That means that it will be slow software emulation with extra support of the faster embedded instructions right..!!!

TBH I'm not really sure why China is pursuing a re-invention of the wheel here. It seems like their space program objective of going to the moon...why do it now that it has been done some 40yrs ago already? Because they can. Surely they could buy Via chips on the open market for cheaper than what it is costing them to develop these Loongson chips...but where's the national pride in that?

 

[jones377]

The Chinese are thinking WAY into the future. There could be wars or embargoes and suddenly they would be without technologies. It's also possible that x86 will eventually be replaced by a new Chinese architecture, think decades from now.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: jones377
The Chinese are thinking WAY into the future. There could be wars or embargoes and suddenly they would be without technologies. It's also possible that x86 will eventually be replaced by a new Chinese architecture, think decades from now.

I can value the reasoning behind making sure you have home-grown capability. I didn't think of it that way.

I suppose India and Russia are equally dependent on US-based corporations for their technology needs as well. Do they have any similar Loongson'esque projects in the public spotlight?

 

[ajaidevsingh]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: jones377
The Chinese are thinking WAY into the future. There could be wars or embargoes and suddenly they would be without technologies. It's also possible that x86 will eventually be replaced by a new Chinese architecture, think decades from now.

I can value the reasoning behind making sure you have home-grown capability. I didn't think of it that way.

I suppose India and Russia are equally dependent on US-based corporations for their technology needs as well. Do they have any similar Loongson'esque projects in the public spotlight?

Well i am sure that India does not have a Loongson'esque projects in the public spotlight dont know about Russia tough.

Loongson'esque processors really don't make any sense as compared to say MIPS and ARM processors "Specially new ones"......Also people can make x86 in secret after all its just intel IP's that prevent china from creating a x86 arc.

I am curious tough very much so i want to get my crummy hands on a L3 asap and maybe burn the quad core via OCing...

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: jones377
The Chinese are thinking WAY into the future. There could be wars or embargoes and suddenly they would be without technologies. It's also possible that x86 will eventually be replaced by a new Chinese architecture, think decades from now.

That's a scary thought, but it could possibly come true. I think Intel should be concerned about this. When everything is built in China, the possibility of native chinese technology taking root in the market (think price-sensitive) should not be overlooked. And Linux will be the engine that causes it. I don't know whether or not I would be for or against a Linux-based future, if the underlying technology was Chinese.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: jones377
The Chinese are thinking WAY into the future. There could be wars or embargoes and suddenly they would be without technologies. It's also possible that x86 will eventually be replaced by a new Chinese architecture, think decades from now.

That's a scary thought, but it could possibly come true. I think Intel should be concerned about this. When everything is built in China, the possibility of native chinese technology taking root in the market (think price-sensitive) should not be overlooked. And Linux will be the engine that causes it. I don't know whether or not I would be for or against a Linux-based future, if the underlying technology was Chinese.

IMO Wintel need not worry unless for some reason either the microsoft or intel falters.

Loongson is not about to storm the non-China world any more than Via already has. Sure it has the potential (Via and Loongson) but the traction so far has been fairly paltry with Via and we've no reason to expect Loongson to be something anymore special.

But it does help China as jones said, reduce their dependence on one more western supplier in the event something disrupts their access to technology suppliers of the day.

 

[ajaidevsingh]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: jones377
The Chinese are thinking WAY into the future. There could be wars or embargoes and suddenly they would be without technologies. It's also possible that x86 will eventually be replaced by a new Chinese architecture, think decades from now.

That's a scary thought, but it could possibly come true. I think Intel should be concerned about this. When everything is built in China, the possibility of native chinese technology taking root in the market (think price-sensitive) should not be overlooked. And Linux will be the engine that causes it. I don't know whether or not I would be for or against a Linux-based future, if the underlying technology was Chinese.

IMO Wintel need not worry unless for some reason either the microsoft or intel falters.

Loongson is not about to storm the non-China world any more than Via already has. Sure it has the potential (Via and Loongson) but the traction so far has been fairly paltry with Via and we've no reason to expect Loongson to be something anymore special.

But it does help China as jones said, reduce their dependence on one more western supplier in the event something disrupts their access to technology suppliers of the day.

Not only intel, microsoft but also AMD and VIA. Well they are x86 complaint and it was a very big hit of luck that x86 emulation by Transmeta was not as good as hoped or else the x86 companies would have a real problem. I have always taught via had huge potential much more now a days than early on and to a certain extend NANO does not disappoint but they should really partner up with either Intel or AMD or even IBM and use SOI or HighK and a smaller processing method.

Oh almost forgot i heard that L1, L2 are EMR resilient and most likely L3 will follow the same path this is really really scary !!!! BTW i think only intels P1 or 487/486 processors are EMR resilient not sure tough!!