confused about AMD's

[ibex333]

I just built a new PC this summer.
It has DFI Lanparty Mobo (non SLI)
1 Gig ram
120 gig HD
Geforce GT 6600
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (2.1GHz)

Now.. I know perfectly well that this is by far not a high end rig, but the way I understand it, it is enough to run any modern games at medium settings and I'm talking from experience on this one.
What puzzles me however, is that I hear people on forums talking about the FX-57 and X2 processors, saying that single core will be obsolete soon and dual core is going to be mainstream soon. This is rediculous IMO... C'mon guys! You havent even taken advantage of the 64bit architecture yet, and you're already making dual core and even thinking about quad core??!! That's crazy. When I got my processor I though I was getting it for the long haul since I thought 64bit is new technology and it will only be fully utilized in the future in Windows Vista, and the new games that will be coming in 2007 or so. There's hardly any 64bit apps or games avalable for an average user these days! Apparently, I must be wrong.
I feel pretty sad, because I put all the money I was saving up for a new PC into this new rig, hoping it will at least last me another 3 years, provided I'll do another video card upgrade in a year or so. Concidering that I'm a heavy gamer, is my processor going to choke a year from now, or things are not as bad as I think?

One more thing. Is there any point for me to overclock my processor, provided I'll do it right? How significant is the benefit I might get from that? Would the OC require me to buy a lot of expencive fans, thermal paste, or any other parts?

I know I asked way too many questions, so feel free to keep your answer as brief as you want. Thanx in advance for your insight.

 

[Matt2]

Put that DFI mobo to the test and OC that A64 to the max and you'll be fine.

 

[stevty2889]

There is nothing wrong with a single core if it servers your purpose and you already have them. I run enough things that take advantage of a dual core, that I wouldn't switch back, but I do still have some single cores as well(and my 920 is acting like a single core now since of of the cores died ).

 

[BrownTown]

sor anything most people will do 1 core is just fine. Even most people who say they "need" dual core are really just kidding themselves, only if you are big time using certain applications will it help. For a server type acpplication they are great, but for a home user they are pretty well worthless. Fact of the matter is that processing speed is good enough right now that you don't need to be anywhere near the top of the line in order to be able to run pretty much any application you wan't without a drastic performance hit.

 

[ibex333]

ok.. but for an average user, does it make a HUGE difference to have a singe core or dual core these days? Like would you see a big speed increase in games and apps between the two? Again.. I'm talking about average user apps and games, NOT things like Maya, 3D Studio Max, etc.

EDIT: Thanx BrownTown. I typed this up a second before you replied


Oh and about the overclock. I read the Essential Overclocking Utilities thread, but I'm still clueless. Can I just download a program that will allow me to change the CPU speed and that will be my OC? or do I need to do the OC through the BIOS and I need to purchase a more powerful fan or some other stuff? I dont want to push my CPU to the limit. I only want to OC a bit without risking to kill my CPU. Just for fun.

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
sor anything most people will do 1 core is just fine. Even most people who say they "need" dual core are really just kidding themselves, only if you are big time using certain applications will it help. For a server type acpplication they are great, but for a home user they are pretty well worthless. Fact of the matter is that processing speed is good enough right now that you don't need to be anywhere near the top of the line in order to be able to run pretty much any application you wan't without a drastic performance hit.

I dont think i am "kidding" myself when i can encode videos and do everything else like play games at the same time. And since i watch TV through my comp it also helps cause i dont want to watch a slide show.

The performance in running single threaded apps at one time is no different (except for the fact that my X2 overclocks better than my 3200+) but being able to run more than one of those apps without having everything slow down is a huge plus.

 

[imported_Husky55]

ibex333,

Look at the sig of Matt2. He gave you excellent advise.

Dual core is obviously much better than single core for MULTITASKING. You can REALLY stretch your rig by OC.

Read and learn, you wont be sorry!!!

 

[Hacp]

Well, dual core may be needed for people who don't have multiple computers, but I usually let my old Dell do my encodings.

 

[trexmgd]

Perhaps this isn't the place for it, but does anyone have a comprehensive list of games/programs that utlilize dual core processors?

 

[A554SS1N]

Firstly, that processor is still more than fast enough for current apps and games, secondly dual-core is not exactly great value for money and there are issues - such as support not being great in terms of performance (i.e. making use of multiple threads), and also glitches due to driver errors. You'll get a load of people saying that it's great for the future and all that crap, but right now you have a nice CPU that'll easily last longer, then you can upgrade in a couple of years to a dual-core system for bargain prices without falling for the gimmick of more is better. Unless you're really into doing lots of really demanding tasks at the same time, like encoding media/cd's and playing a game, and you do that kind of thing on a regular basis, there's not much point spending you're money on something faster. By all means OC it if you feel you need to, but as I say, it's already a pretty fast processor. If you want a good performance upgrade, go for 2GB of RAM - make sure it's only 2x 1GB sticks, as 4x512mb is slower. Make sure it's low latency too, and you're A64 will fly.

 

[Furen]

Your video card is more of a bottleneck than anything else. Even so it's still good enough, I'd say. Your CPU is perfectly fine and it should be enough for a while yet. Even overclocking wont get you much of a benefit since your video will bottleneck you.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: Furen
Your video card is more of a bottleneck than anything else. Even so it's still good enough, I'd say. Your CPU is perfectly fine and it should be enough for a while yet. Even overclocking wont get you much of a benefit since your video will bottleneck you.

Exactly

 

[PingSpike]

I agree with Furen. Honestly, processors haven't gotten a ton better in awhile...even the old bartons and northwoods still hold there own in new stuff.

Dual core is nice and all...but if you're building on a budget for gaming, do yourself a favor and put your cash into a video card instead. The only thing that throws a monkey wrench into this these days is PCI-E/AGP changeover thats in progress...this is part of the reason a lot of the higher end AGP parts command such high prices.

 

[HardWarrior]

ibex, allow me to give it to you straight. Why do you care what other people say? If you're satisfied with the level of performance you have now, just be content. Why are you letting a bunch of people who wouldn't know you from a hole in the ground drive you up a walll over nothing? There's ALWAYS going to be something new. If you fret over it you're going to be in a constant state of uproar. Yes, the money I spent on my last upgrade was worth it, to me. And I couldn't care less what someone else thinks of my purchase. If sanity is important to you, you'll try to feel the same.

 

[starwars7]

I would hope everyone's posts would have already convinced you, but here is an article:

Single-Core CPUs Ain't Dead Yet

And this one, look at the performance of the different PC's when playing different top of the line games:

The Mother of All CPU Charts 2005/2006

 

[Pyrokinetic]

First off, what LanParty board are you running? The socket 754 with the AGP slot; or the socket 939 with a PCIE slot?

Second, how can you be stock and run 2.1Ghz? Both the socket 754 and the 939 Athlon 64s are 2.0Ghz stock.

Thirdly, no you don't absolutely need new paste and fans (provided you have a case with decent airflow), but it helps. So what kind of case do you have?

 

[ibex333]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
ibex, allow me to give it to you straight. Why do you care what other people say? If you're satisfied with the level of performance you have now, just be content. Why are you letting a bunch of people who wouldn't know you from a hole in the ground drive you up a walll over nothing? There's ALWAYS going to be something new. If you fret over it you're going to be in a constant state of uproar. Yes, the money I spent on my last upgrade was worth it, to me. And I couldn't care less what someone else thinks of my purchase. If sanity is important to you, you'll try to feel the same.

Yes, you are absolutely right. It is not that I was jealous or freaking out. I was simply curious what exactly are dual core processors and if they will be a MUST very soon making my CPU obsolete. Now I know better, and I'm at ease.

 

[ibex333]

Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
First off, what LanParty board are you running? The socket 754 with the AGP slot; or the socket 939 with a PCIE slot?

Second, how can you be stock and run 2.1Ghz? Both the socket 754 and the 939 Athlon 64s are 2.0Ghz stock.

Thirdly, no you don't absolutely need new paste and fans (provided you have a case with decent airflow), but it helps. So what kind of case do you have?

I have a Lanparty Ultra-D. socket 939 with a PCIE slot. Seems to be 2.1 stock. I have a nice case "Antec Super Lanboy" - it has 2 fans, front and back, and decent airfolow. Is there any program that will tell me if my CPU is running too hot if I OC so that I can notice it fast and avoid frying it? Also is there a prog that does the OC for me? - meaning I dont have to go into BIOS and set everything myself. (I want to OC just for fun, and knowlege not for any huge performance boost)

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: ibex333

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
ibex, allow me to give it to you straight. Why do you care what other people say? If you're satisfied with the level of performance you have now, just be content. Why are you letting a bunch of people who wouldn't know you from a hole in the ground drive you up a walll over nothing? There's ALWAYS going to be something new. If you fret over it you're going to be in a constant state of uproar. Yes, the money I spent on my last upgrade was worth it, to me. And I couldn't care less what someone else thinks of my purchase. If sanity is important to you, you'll try to feel the same.

Yes, you are absolutely right. It is not that I was jealous or freaking out. I was simply curious what exactly are dual core processors and if they will be a MUST very soon making my CPU obsolete. Now I know better, and I'm at ease.

There you go! Keep this in mind also, there are folks on this planet making due with PC's that most of us wouldn't use for doorstops.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Furen
Your video card is more of a bottleneck than anything else.

QFT. The people pounding on their chests and making noise about dual core being so much faster and single core being obsolete are just trying to justify wast^H^H^H spending as much money as they did. Now people, don't get me wrong, I know that there are great uses that the second core can be put to, but how many people out there are using dual core because "it's newer and better" and don't multitask beyond having Winamp and their IM chat client running in the background while they play their MMO? Your CPU has a lot more life in it than some dual core fanboys are willing to admit.

ibex333, check the CD that came with your motherboard. Chances are that there's a program/utility on there for reporting temperatures. Before you overclock, you should find out what your typical idle and load temperatures are. This is to decide if you need a better cooler in the future after overclocking.

BTW, this $15 (shipped) HSF is all you need to keep even an overclocked CPU cool enough unless you have some specific needs (such as wanting to run silent, these aren't too noisy but not silent).

For overclocking software in Windows, there are two common choices. First is the motherboard manufacturer. Some of them ship utilities with their motherboards to allow overclocking from Windows. Again, check your motherboard CD. The other choice is Clockgen.

AFAIK most people overclock as high as they can in BIOS, and then use Clockgen for that extra little bit more that they can't get in BIOS. Your CPU should be pretty easy to overclock with usually only three things to change in BIOS. Note, "usually" and not "always." Overclocking is never guaranteed and I'm not responsible if your system blows up. Okay, disclaimers aside, here's what you need to change in BIOS, assuming that nothing has been changed from stock.

Change the HT mutliplier to 4X.

Change the memory to 166 (sometimes shown as 333 or 5/6).

Change the system bus speed (AKA FSB) to 240MHz.

Save and exit, and enjoy 400MHz more. If it doesn't work or if your system becomes unstable, just reset BIOS either by loading defaults from within BIOS or using the jumper to reset it when system is off.

 

[ibex333]

Thanx. I'll give it a whirl after I find out my temperatures... But how can I tell what temp is too hot?? Is the prog going to notify me?

 

[Ranulf]

Originally posted by: Zap


BTW, this $15 (shipped) HSF is all you need to keep even an overclocked CPU cool enough unless you have some specific needs (such as wanting to run silent, these aren't too noisy but not silent).

I take it thats the retail hsf for X2 3800 and up processors? Or is that from the Opteron series? How noisy? 3k rpm fan?

 

[Resonance]

haha, no, you're pc sounds like it's still good. I'M the one that needs to upgrade

 

[Pyrokinetic]

Ok, seems like you have a decent case with good airflow, and even with the stock heatsink, you should be fine. As for temperatures, the chips can take quite a bit of heat, and if you stay below 40C at idle, you should be fine.

Being that you have stock cooling, a quick overclock to 2.4Ghz would be easy and safe. However with your board, and a good heatsink and fan (like a XP-120) I would bet you could get 2.8Ghz, although it would probably take quite a bit of tweaking.

Now, your chip has a stock multiplier of 10 (200x10=2000Mhz) so if you were to use the 166 memory divider, that would give you an effective multiplier of 12 (166=5/6 so 10/(5/6)=12 using CEIL function: always round up to nearest whole number)

What this means is that you could go up to 2400Mhz (2.4Ghz) and still have your memory running at DDR400, which is the easiest overclocking path. So, to do this, you would set the following:

FSB: 240
Memory divider to 166=RAM/FSB:5/6
Set your HyperTransport Multiplier to 5x
I know others will tell you to set it at 4x but at 5x with these settings, you still will be
below 1050Mhz on the HyperTransport Bus. Follow: 240x10=2400, using the 166
memory divider, you will be effectively dividing by 12 so 2400/12=200 and 200 x 5
= 1000Mhz.
Set your Core Voltage to 1.500V (as per the quick overclock guide)

Make sure Cool 'n Quiet is turned off.
All this is done in the BIOS, most Windows overclock utilities are just inferior.
You temps should be ok.

 

[Maximilian]

To the OP:

I have a similar rig, slightly less poweful and its fine for games, quake 4, half life 2. Wouldnt try FEAR though... hell no. Your rig is fine, personally i would wait for the new Intel architecture before even thinking about a new CPU. Since your a heavy gamer make sure you upgrade the video card at somepoint, as that 6600gt is only a bit above my 9800 PRO, and even for a semi-light gamer like me, this 9800 PRO just isnt cutting it anymore.