Conflict between rich and poor strongest in 24 years

[Genx87]

Point is crying US corporations are overtaxed is a canard. Check out this chart. Last I heard Norway had no trouble retaining businesses. Their unemployment rate for 2010 was 3.6%. A lot of their critical industries are state owned. I'm not advocating this but they are doing pretty well.

Hope you enjoy fish and potatoes. Hamburger? Maybe if you are part of the 1%. Do you like to tip? Dont worry, Norway legislated that decision for you.

 

[Engineer]

Keep undermining the lower and lower middle classes with offshoring and job / wage cuts (and stagnation) while raking in more and more at the top and this is what you'll get. The idea that we can get cheaper goods by offshoring is fading. Prices are still rising as well as the salaries/benefits of those at the top and in reality, it's at the expense of the middle class who have had their middle class jobs replaced with service jobs such as "Welcome to Walmart".

As this continues, more and more unrest and discontent will occur....count on it.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I call HomerJS's bluff, here's a table of corporate tax rates by country:

From here

Corporation tax rates by country

Combined corporate tax rate, %

Income from corp. tax, % of GDP

Net debt, % of GDP

GDP change on previous year, %

SOURCE: OECD
Japan 39.5 2.4 114.0 3.7
United States 39.2 2.1 67.8 2.7
France 34.4 1.4 57.1 1.6
Belgium 34.0 2.5 82.4 2.1
Germany 30.2 1.3 50.5 3.5
Australia 30.0 .. 0.4 3.3
Spain 30.0 2.2 43.4 -0.2
Mexico 30.0 .. 5.0
New Zealand 30.0 3.3 -4.4 2.2
Canada 29.5 2.5 31.4 3.0
Luxembourg 28.6 5.4 -41.6 3.3
Norway 28.0 8.2 -157.0 0.5
United Kingdom 28.0 2.8 51.3 1.8
Italy 27.5 3.1 103.3 1.0
Portugal 26.5 .. 63.2 1.5
Sweden 26.3 2.8 -21.1 4.4
Finland 26.0 2.0 -56.6 2.7
Netherlands 25.5 .. 34.7 1.7
Denmark 25.0 2.4 0.3 2.2
Austria 25.0 1.7 41.7 2.0
Korea 24.2 3.7 -36.6 6.2
Greece 24.0 0.0 97.3 -3.9
Switzerland 21.2 3.4 5.7 2.7
Turkey 20.0 1.9 8.2
Poland 19.0 .. 29.0 3.5
Czech Republic 19.0 3.7 3.5 2.4
Slovakia 19.0 2.8 24.5 4.1
Hungary 19.0 2.2 61.6 1.1
Chile 17.0 .. 5.2
Iceland 15.0 1.1 45.2 -3.6
Ireland 12.5 2.4 61.5 -0.3​

 

[HomerJS]

In a lot of cases the rates are irrelevant. It's the amount of taxes actually paid.

Back in "good ole days" of the 50s (opined by the right) the top rate was 90% but few people actually paid it.

 

[cybrsage]

Why do you guys keep using % of GDP? That is like saying China pollutes less than any other nation and then using pollution created divided by population as your support.

Why not actually post the tax percentage that is levied on the company instead?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I think those who support a 60% - 80% tax rate should also be subjected to the same tax rates. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I think those who support a 60% - 80% tax rate should also be subjected to the same tax rates. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Yep, I've said it before, Flat Tax everyone. Have a referendum determining the tax rate and plan the government budget around it. You choose what to pay, you choose what you receive.

 

[J-Money]

I think those who support a 60% - 80% tax rate should also be subjected to the same tax rates. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

So 1 guy makes $10 million a year, pays his 80% and has to scrape by on $2 million and another who makes $10k a year has to pay his 80% and gets to take home a whopping $2k is fair and even?

I'm not saying tax at 80% by any means, but wow no wonder your country is in shambles with people like you around.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So 1 guy makes $10 million a year, pays his 80% and has to scrape by on $2 million and another who makes $10k a year has to pay his 80% and gets to take home a whopping $2k is fair and even?

I'm not saying tax at 80% by any means, but wow no wonder your country is in shambles with people like you around.

Yet think of how fucked Canada would be without the US purchasing goods and protecting the country.

 

[J-Money]

Yet think of how fucked Canada would be without the US purchasing goods and protecting the country.

Protecting us from what exactly? Mexicans?

Your country is in shambles. You can't deny it. All you guys can do when someone points it out is try to attack where the poster is from like it'll somehow offend them, or that somehow it's that country's fault, or that post will magically make the US stop dealing with them entirely.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Protecting us from what exactly? Mexicans?

Most Canadians know the main reason their Armed Forces are so small is due to the fact the country is protected by the US Armed Forces.

 

[crownjules]

Keep undermining the lower and lower middle classes with offshoring and job / wage cuts (and stagnation) while raking in more and more at the top and this is what you'll get. The idea that we can get cheaper goods by offshoring is fading. Prices are still rising as well as the salaries/benefits of those at the top and in reality, it's at the expense of the middle class who have had their middle class jobs replaced with service jobs such as "Welcome to Walmart".

As this continues, more and more unrest and discontent will occur....count on it.

But...but...but.... you just have to work harder and continue to better yourself!

Of course, this just plays into the hands of the so-called "job creators". As the pool of jobs grows smaller and more people compete for the shrinking opportunity, simple supply and demand kicks in. They can pay less because there are more people looking. That's why we've seen middle class wages stagnating or regressing. Meanwhile the top dogs keep enjoying year after year of record profits and earnings.

 

[cybrsage]

Yep, I've said it before, Flat Tax everyone. Have a referendum determining the tax rate and plan the government budget around it. You choose what to pay, you choose what you receive.

Consumption based tax. The more you consume, the more tax you pay. The more expensive, the more tax you pay. Same rate for everyone.

The Fair Tax is such a tax.

 

[Genx87]

In a lot of cases the rates are irrelevant. It's the amount of taxes actually paid.

Back in "good ole days" of the 50s (opined by the right) the top rate was 90% but few people actually paid it.

This is true so why the focus from the left and president on raising the rate instead of actually collecting at the current rate?

 

[Genx87]

Protecting us from what exactly? Mexicans?

Your country is in shambles. You can't deny it. All you guys can do when someone points it out is try to attack where the poster is from like it'll somehow offend them, or that somehow it's that country's fault, or that post will magically make the US stop dealing with them entirely.

You are kidding me right? Oil, Timber, and mineral rich land with low population and ability to defend itself? You dont think has interested any nations?

Our country is in shambles like the rest of the world is in shambles. The house of cards we have built ourselves is crumbling.

 

[HomerJS]

This is true so why the focus from the left and president on raising the rate instead of actually collecting at the current rate?

Tax revenues are down because of a bad economy and was exasserbated by the Bush tax cuts. Rates under Clinton seemed to work for everyone. Why the problem?

 

[J-Money]

You are kidding me right? Oil, Timber, and mineral rich land with low population and ability to defend itself? You dont think has interested any nations?

Our country is in shambles like the rest of the world is in shambles. The house of cards we have built ourselves is crumbling.

And I'm sure you do this "protecting" out of the goodness of your own hearts and will withdraw it all if we offend internet posters, yes?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

On the amount over a very large number?

You bet - it's immoral to undertax them, actually. JFK lowered the top rate to 70%.

The best number needs research - it might turn out to be under 60%.

But some higher number is a good idea.

What if the number was lower than current rates but involved raising the capital gains tax? Would your head explode?

 

[Genx87]

Tax revenues are down because of a bad economy and was exasserbated by the Bush tax cuts. Rates under Clinton seemed to work for everyone. Why the problem?

That in no way answers my question. If as you have said we have had higher rates but were never collected on. What good does it to raise the rates if the collection rates dont change?

You can as in your example raise the rates to 90%. So what? Nobody pays that rate anyways. Fix the loopholes and increase enforcement of collection instead of taking the brain dead approach of increasing taxes just to say you did.

 

[Genx87]

And I'm sure you do this "protecting" out of the goodness of your own hearts and will withdraw it all if we offend internet posters, yes?

What does it matter if we do it out of the goodness of our heart or not? The fact is Canada has enjoyed the protection of the United States military. Thus allowing Canada to not pay their fair share for their own defense. You are a closer Europe.

 

[hal2kilo]

That in no way answers my question. If as you have said we have had higher rates but were never collected on. What good does it to raise the rates if the collection rates dont change?

You can as in your example raise the rates to 90%. So what? Nobody pays that rate anyways. Fix the loopholes and increase enforcement of collection instead of taking the brain dead approach of increasing taxes just to say you did.

One of the main ways that the 90% rate was avoided was to reinvest in the company and build for a long term expansion. Everyone made out that way, the company, the workers, ect.

 

[soundforbjt]

I call HomerJS's bluff, here's a table of corporate tax rates by country:

From here

Corporation tax rates by country​

Combined corporate tax rate, %​

Income from corp. tax, % of GDP​

Net debt, % of GDP​

GDP change on previous year, %​

SOURCE: OECD
Japan 39.5 2.4 114.0 3.7
United States 39.2 2.1 67.8 2.7
France 34.4 1.4 57.1 1.6
Belgium 34.0 2.5 82.4 2.1
Germany 30.2 1.3 50.5 3.5
Australia 30.0 .. 0.4 3.3
Spain 30.0 2.2 43.4 -0.2
Mexico 30.0 .. 5.0
New Zealand 30.0 3.3 -4.4 2.2
Canada 29.5 2.5 31.4 3.0
Luxembourg 28.6 5.4 -41.6 3.3
Norway 28.0 8.2 -157.0 0.5
United Kingdom 28.0 2.8 51.3 1.8
Italy 27.5 3.1 103.3 1.0
Portugal 26.5 .. 63.2 1.5
Sweden 26.3 2.8 -21.1 4.4
Finland 26.0 2.0 -56.6 2.7
Netherlands 25.5 .. 34.7 1.7
Denmark 25.0 2.4 0.3 2.2
Austria 25.0 1.7 41.7 2.0
Korea 24.2 3.7 -36.6 6.2
Greece 24.0 0.0 97.3 -3.9
Switzerland 21.2 3.4 5.7 2.7
Turkey 20.0 1.9 8.2
Poland 19.0 .. 29.0 3.5
Czech Republic 19.0 3.7 3.5 2.4
Slovakia 19.0 2.8 24.5 4.1
Hungary 19.0 2.2 61.6 1.1
Chile 17.0 .. 5.2
Iceland 15.0 1.1 45.2 -3.6

Ireland 12.5 2.4 61.5 -0.3​

Those are the rates, not what they pay. Many US corps (approx a third) pay no taxes at all or get money back. If they all paid their actual rates for a few years, I might be for lowering them. But why lower them if they don't pay them anyhow?

 

[J-Money]

What does it matter if we do it out of the goodness of our heart or not? The fact is Canada has enjoyed the protection of the United States military. Thus allowing Canada to not pay their fair share for their own defense. You are a closer Europe.

And this has what to do with the conflict between rich and poor in the USA?

You proved my point quite nicely. All you guys had was that I am from Canada and tried to threaten it because I offended you guys when I said your country is in shambles.

That's it. Too easy.

good night!

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I only wish that added top 0.01%.

Agreed. I think it's unfortunate that OWS has popularized the 1% argument because it's really the .1% that have made out like bandits. Someone who makes 400k per year from wages (which puts them at the bottom of the 1%) is overtaxed while the 0.1% are undertaxed.

 

[Genx87]

And this has what to do with the conflict between rich and poor in the USA?

You proved my point quite nicely. All you guys had was that I am from Canada and tried to threaten it because I offended you guys when I said your country is in shambles.

That's it. Too easy.

good night!

I wasnt offended by saying our nation in shambles. I admitted so much in my response to you. I was pointing out that Cananda has had the benefit of US protection which helps Cananda at the expense of our country. Acting like that cost doesnt exist is silly on your part. Like I said, Cananda is a closer Europe. If we ceased to exist today. Canada would be forced to shell out more money for guns and less for butter.