**CONFIRMED** Hackers crack Xbox 360 for the first time

[Malak]

All they need to do to protect their games is require the game to be on a non-standard media. As long as nobody sells the media and it's only specially made for the 360, nobody can crack it.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Malak
All they need to do to protect their games is require the game to be on a non-standard media. As long as nobody sells the media and it's only specially made for the 360, nobody can crack it.

But the tradeoffs (i.e. increased cost, the inability to play DVD movies, etc.) aren't really acceptable.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: warcrow

Originally posted by: Atheus
The whole concept that i'm not allowed to modify something I OWN is ridiculous. Imagine if it was criminal to put a new gearbox in your car, or rewire your house...

Good luck to the hackers working on this, I might even help when I get around to buying a unit.

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Who will want to mod their xbox this time around if the reverse engineering needed to make chips leads to chips costing $5000 a piece? Would you buy a mod chip for $5000?

The reverse engineering only happens once, and mod chips are just FPGAs, they only cost a few bucks no matter what's on them.

You own the product, but not the code that MS developed to run the product. They developed that software and they have a right to protect their IP so it's encrypted -what's wrong with that? You can mode your console all you wish with faceplates, stickers, paint....whatever you wish externally (good luck on the resell). But when one tries to modify the machine's capabilities, something its restricting to do like play import games, then they have a right to stop that. For whatever reasons they have, usually its to control the released content in different regions. Why doesnt that make sense to you?

So i guess you're for Sony protecting their CDs and not allowing us to rip the music to our ipods or mp3 players? I guess you're not for people making backup of DVDs movies so their kids don't ruin the original. And i guess you don't like people unlocking pipes in a videocard or overclocking processors?

Those are VERY different things than hacking into intellectual property.

How so?

If you truly don't understand how hacking into someone's protected work is not the same as the ability to rip a CD... Then there's really nothing I can think of to say, to help you understand.

Because you obviously can't distinguish the two.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Looney
Because you obviously can't distinguish the two.

See... Now you are just trying to argue with me. Sorry, but I don't play that game.

I'm not going to get into a discussion with someone who refuses to see such a blatent difference.

Maybe you can find someone else to entertain you.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Looney
Because you obviously can't distinguish the two.

See... Now you are just trying to argue with me. Sorry, but I don't play that game.

Wow, great way to make your points!

I'm not going to get into a discussion with someone who refuses to see such a blatent difference.

What do you mean? I don't see the point, THAT'S WHY I ASK FOR YOU TO POINT THEM OUT. I'm not sure what world you live in, but in my world, not EVERYBODY shares my own opinion and point of view, and sometimes i need to share them.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: warcrow

Originally posted by: Atheus
The whole concept that i'm not allowed to modify something I OWN is ridiculous. Imagine if it was criminal to put a new gearbox in your car, or rewire your house...

Good luck to the hackers working on this, I might even help when I get around to buying a unit.

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Who will want to mod their xbox this time around if the reverse engineering needed to make chips leads to chips costing $5000 a piece? Would you buy a mod chip for $5000?

The reverse engineering only happens once, and mod chips are just FPGAs, they only cost a few bucks no matter what's on them.

You own the product, but not the code that MS developed to run the product. They developed that software and they have a right to protect their IP so it's encrypted -what's wrong with that? You can mode your console all you wish with faceplates, stickers, paint....whatever you wish externally (good luck on the resell). But when one tries to modify the machine's capabilities, something its restricting to do like play import games, then they have a right to stop that. For whatever reasons they have, usually its to control the released content in different regions. Why doesnt that make sense to you?

So i guess you're for Sony protecting their CDs and not allowing us to rip the music to our ipods or mp3 players? I guess you're not for people making backup of DVDs movies so their kids don't ruin the original. And i guess you don't like people unlocking pipes in a videocard or overclocking processors?

Those are VERY different things than hacking into intellectual property.

1. Reverse engineering for the purpose of interoperability is fair use. I reject the notion that I can be forced to give up this exception to a privilege that I, notwithstanding its benefit upon being issued for a limited time, reject (i.e., copyright). I also reject the notion that it is the circumvention of technological protection mechanisms that is illegal (DMCA); it's what you do with it that is criminal and/or tortious.
2. The hardware is my property. I bought it, not rented or leased. Games are a completely different matter.

P.S.: "Intellectual property" can piss off. It's not property. Ideas have fundamentally different properties (no pun intended) from real things, so to necessarily treat them as even similar is something I (and others, some with stature) heavily contest.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: bersl2
1. Reverse engineering for the purpose of interoperability is fair use. I reject the notion that I can be forced to give up this exception to a privilege that I, notwithstanding its benefit upon being issued for a limited time, reject (i.e., copyright). I also reject the notion that it is the circumvention of technological protection mechanisms that is illegal (DMCA); it's what you do with it that is criminal and/or tortious.
2. The hardware is my property. I bought it, not rented or leased. Games are a completely different matter.

P.S.: "Intellectual property" can piss off. It's not property. Ideas have fundamentally different properties (no pun intended) from real things, so to necessarily treat them as even similar is something I (and others, some with stature) heavily contest.

1. I agree... Reverse engineering is what makes the world go 'round.

2. Yes, the hardware is your property. If you want to modify it, overclock it, use it as a doorstop, whatever... It's yours. Again, we're in agreement.


IP... I suppose that's where we differ... I think. But I'm not positive I am clear on exactly what you mean. What (real world examples) do you consider "IP"? Games, utilities, operating systems, BIOS', digital media (video/music), drivers, all of the above?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Looks like the mod chip is nearly ready now

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Looks like the mod chip is nearly ready now

Doubtful. They will most likely run into small walls which will prevent them from completing the project for awhile. Sometimes the hardest part of the marathon is the last 10%.

but anything can happen, I guess...

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: warcrow

Originally posted by: Atheus
The whole concept that i'm not allowed to modify something I OWN is ridiculous. Imagine if it was criminal to put a new gearbox in your car, or rewire your house...

Good luck to the hackers working on this, I might even help when I get around to buying a unit.

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Who will want to mod their xbox this time around if the reverse engineering needed to make chips leads to chips costing $5000 a piece? Would you buy a mod chip for $5000?

The reverse engineering only happens once, and mod chips are just FPGAs, they only cost a few bucks no matter what's on them.

You own the product, but not the code that MS developed to run the product. They developed that software and they have a right to protect their IP so it's encrypted -what's wrong with that? You can mode your console all you wish with faceplates, stickers, paint....whatever you wish externally (good luck on the resell). But when one tries to modify the machine's capabilities, something its restricting to do like play import games, then they have a right to stop that. For whatever reasons they have, usually its to control the released content in different regions. Why doesnt that make sense to you?

Because Laws are bought and sold by the ones who have the most expensive laywers. Moreover, the end-user's money is being treated as less valuable than the 'projected money to be made' by the corporations. Get it?

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: warcrow

Originally posted by: Atheus
The whole concept that i'm not allowed to modify something I OWN is ridiculous. Imagine if it was criminal to put a new gearbox in your car, or rewire your house...

Good luck to the hackers working on this, I might even help when I get around to buying a unit.

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Who will want to mod their xbox this time around if the reverse engineering needed to make chips leads to chips costing $5000 a piece? Would you buy a mod chip for $5000?

The reverse engineering only happens once, and mod chips are just FPGAs, they only cost a few bucks no matter what's on them.

You own the product, but not the code that MS developed to run the product. They developed that software and they have a right to protect their IP so it's encrypted -what's wrong with that? You can mode your console all you wish with faceplates, stickers, paint....whatever you wish externally (good luck on the resell). But when one tries to modify the machine's capabilities, something its restricting to do like play import games, then they have a right to stop that. For whatever reasons they have, usually its to control the released content in different regions. Why doesnt that make sense to you?

So i guess you're for Sony protecting their CDs and not allowing us to rip the music to our ipods or mp3 players? I guess you're not for people making backup of DVDs movies so their kids don't ruin the original. And i guess you don't like people unlocking pipes in a videocard or overclocking processors?

Those are VERY different things than hacking into intellectual property.

How so?

If you truly don't understand how hacking into someone's protected work is not the same as the ability to rip a CD... Then there's really nothing I can think of to say, to help you understand.

Don't try to sound like you are a higher power in this forum please; that is the most condescending thing I have read today. The act of modification, restoration, or protection has been key factor in many world markets. Take cars for instance. You can buy a mod chip for the car's CPU that allows you to adjust many different things. There are federal laws in America where those variables are dictated by regulations and standards. Violation could result in a ticket if you use the mod chip to violate regulations. A mod chip for a Xbox is not disimilar in nature. If you own a game but need to violate the manufacturers OEM to play your backup that is no different than taking your car to the track and using an aftermarket CPU to adjust your fuel to air ratio or timing profiles as long as it is regulation legal.

Entertainment and Media are trying to set a standard for copyright law that clearly distinguish what is, what was, and what should be for people and force the companies judgement upon the people.

 

[ncage]

I don't care about mod chips or whatever . I just want to buy one of these babies and put linux on it. Cheal, multicore system for running linux. Now thats what i call cool.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: hooflung
Don't try to sound like you are a higher power in this forum please; that is the most condescending thing I have read today.

Seriously... You can't discern the difference between the ability to rip a CD that you own, versus hacking into protected software code that someone ELSE owns???

I am not being condescending when I choose NOT to have a discussion with someone who refuses to be rational. And if one were to insist they are the exact same thing, that's simply not rational.