Concorde Crash

montanafan

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
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You know, that really makes me sick. I had switched over to NBC and Tom Brokaw was talking about the crash. He had already said at least three times that there were probably some well-known people on board the plane because that's generally who flies on it at that price.

Then he gets the information that this was a chartered flight by a German tour group. It was like you could actually see the disappointment on his face. All of a sudden they start wrapping up the special report and go back to regular programming.

Apparently 109 or more regular people aren't that newsworthy to NBC.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,019
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Sad to say, montanafan, but he probably WAS disappointed. Not that the newspeople would be happy that so many people died, but as long as it already did happen, then the news folks get a lot of camera time, which they like.

The news business is all about the sensational.

I read a story just yesterday where a guy whose sister was murdered got called by a reporter the day before the murderer's execution. The reporter asked if he was happy that the murderer was being executed, he said no. The reporter then asked if he was going to go and witness the execution, he said no. The reporter just hung up at that point. Nothing exciting to write about, so forget it.
 

KarsinTheHutt

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2000
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Oh - this is going to be really bad for Air France. The last time a supersonic jet crashed, it resulted in the plane being canned forever. I think it was the Soviet "Concordsky" at the Paris air show back in the 70s
 

Thom

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 1999
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It was a package holiday tour flight, therefore no 'more important' famous people, so sorry NBC. :/

anyway, i thought those 'cracks' were slightly worrying myself. Although that was the BA fleet, no the AirFrance fleet.

Concordski crashed at the Paris air show in the early 70's??

anyway, that was due to a small (french owned) plane spying on the russian design to see how it flew. The small plane flew right in front of the Russian plane, and the pilots attempts to avoid a collision led to it's demise.

Anyway, these planes have an average age of 21, this particular one was 23, and had racked up 960,000 miles. Hell, thats good going really. No crashes in 30 years (okay, there may only have been 16 of them) is a good record.

:(
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
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Actually they built more Tu-144 than concords. That stupid accident had no effect at all on the Soviet TU-144 program, Even at this moment Nasa is leasing one for research purposes & the've had no problems.

Considering the mileage those 13 concordes have made, one was bound to crash sooner all later, no big deal - flying airliners is still safer than walking across ones own street or driving to work.

Realy 110 odd people out of 6 billion dieing is no big deal - I don't see any people mourning over all the children who starve to death in the third world every day, which is a lot more than 110.
 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
3,878
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DABANSHEE, have I told you lately that you're a cold-hearted bastard? :)

Not to take away from the tragedy of the crash, but did anyone think about what it was like for the people on the ground? I can't imagine sitting there, safe and secure in my hotel room, when all of the sudden an airliner falls out of the sky and crashes into the building. That would be enought to keep me constantly checking the sky for quite some time.
 

Doomer

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 1999
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""Realy 110 odd people out of 6 billion dieing is no big deal""

Unless you had loved ones among them. :(
 

KarsinTheHutt

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2000
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Actually, the crash had a LOT of negative impact on the Concordsky - I saw it on PBS a year or so ago. The crash actually wasn't even due to a design flaw. Supposedly a US spyplane buzzed Concordsky to get some pictures and caused the pilot to lose control.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
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It's really sad a Concorde crashed. That plane is difficult to fly and runs much of the time with engines on reheat. I'm really surprised we haven't seen more incidents earlier. The design is old, people are only human so this was bound to happen. :(
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
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Mind you if 110 Bengal Tigers had died then it would be a big deal as there are ownly about 6000 left.

But really why mourn over 110 people having a quick sudden relatively painless deaths, while there's infinitly more people dieing slowly of starvation every day. Why didn't you make a post in anandtech about them, maybe cause its not news-worthy?

Its like when this millionaire yachtswoman got stranded off antartic, during one of these round the world yacht races, & the Australian govt had to spend a couple of million sending half the bloody navy to near the south pole to rescue her. When those same resources could have saved the lives of thousands in the third world.

Also, the reason nothing came of the TU-144 program, is after the Soviets made all those planes for all the wrong reasons (international prestige), they had nothing for them to do except high speed mail flights between Moscow & Vladivostock. Eventual once they realised what a waste it was fuel wise, they just spent most of their time parked at different airports. They couldn't fly 'em internationally because of all that sonic boom hooha, as they'd have all these NIMBYS (not in my back yard) demonstrating over perceived noise like they had with the Concord back in the 70s - thats why the Concord only flys between New York, London & Paris.

BTW, it wasnt a American spy plane that buzzed that TU-144 in Paris. What happen was that the Concord was made with a compromise subsonic/supersonic wing, whereas the TU-144 was made with a supersonic wing that was very inefficent at slower speeds. So the Russians had retractable cunard foreplanes installed at the front, which increased lift by over 20% at subsonic speeds. Well the French sent up a Mirage to take photos of the canard foreplanes, while the Tu-144 was to do its demo run at the Paris airshow. Well the French plane got in the way & it the TU-144 to twist to avoid a crash, the Gs' stalled the engines (it was a civilian aircraft so the engines werent designed for high G manuevars) So the Russian pilot was force to dive so air being forced through the engines would restart them, but the shock of him trying to pull out of the dive disintegrated the aircraft just above the ground. Yes its the bloody French again. But they still made more TU-144s than Concords (17 as opposed to 13) plus they have a higher top speed & can carry 30% more passengers, plus because of the retractable canard foreplanes they have a longer range too, as they use less fuel (no need for a compromise wing).
 

CyberSax

Banned
Mar 12, 2000
1,253
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A lot of people like to go by the logic that "You're more likely to die on the way to the airport, than in a plane crash". But - usually - when folks get killed in car wrecks it's either 1) their fault the car crashed or 2) their stupidity that they got in the car. When a plane crashes, you have no control over it. You die because of circumstances that are entirely out of your control. And you pay so much damn money too, so you'd expect those maintainance and security crews and pilots would do their job with some competence.

That's why, Dabanshee, plane wrecks are such a tragedy.
 

reitz

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
3,878
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He's got an excellent point, there. 113 people versus thousands of children dying every year from starvation...which one is the greater tragedy?

DABANSHEE, while I think "newsworthiness" has a little to do with it, I think a bigger reason is because a plane crash (or terrorist bombing, or tornado, etc) evokes stronger emotions because it's something most of us can picture happening to ourselves. I know what it's like to not have enough to eat, but I can not possibly grasp what it is like to live in such extreme poverty where disease and starvation kill regularly. It's hard to empathize with a situation you can not relate to.
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
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Yeh I know what you mean. Its tragic these people (& probably some families) have been saving for months or maybe years to go on their once in a lifetime concord 'n cruise holiday & their holiday ends with their deaths almost before it had virtually started.

Plus think of what the relatives are going through & what they will go through.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
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CNN's using that picture as their title for the story...I wonder where it came from. Video still? Some tourist with a camera who happened to see it? Maybe it'll give us some info...

Viper GTS
 

Thom

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 1999
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they made 20 concordes. 13(well, er, 12) still fly. BA cannibalised one of theirs to keep the rest running. Hmm, great, sounds well safe.

It was a french plane that caused the tu-144 to crash, as i already said.

that picture is damn scary.

:(
 

Thom

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 1999
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picture is from a plane spotting teenager @ de gaulle airport according to bbc news.
 

MotoKamui

Member
Apr 8, 2000
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Hmm... what PROBABLY happened is one or both of the engines in the port side pod ate a flock of birds. As a result, the compressor blade set tore itself apart. THAT sent fragments through the casing, burner, turbine blade set, fuel and hydraulics lines, the other engine(if it wasn't all ready doing the same thing)...

Once THAT happened, the pilot is dealing with a pretty strong force moment from the starboard engines, and not enough to counter act them. He can't get more power to get better control of the aircraft, and he needs better control to do anything.

So now you have a plane with alot of fuel on board, on fire, lacking power, and probably also rapidly losing control of the port side control surfaces.

Once the plane stalled out trying to get altitude, it was all over.

IIRC, much the same thing happened to a B-1B(a supersonic bomber with much the same engine design) a while back.

It IS possible that this is maintennace related, but not very likely. British Airways and Air France take GOOD care of those planes.
 

Wingnut

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
1,538
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A very sad day for lots of families and one of aviation's most technologically advanced achievements...:(:(:(

The problem with the media covering aviation crashes is that 9 times out of 10, they never have an aviation expert on hand to give 'em the real scoop. They take it upon themselves to report on something they have no idea about and they sensationalize by using phrases like, "plunged to the ground" or "fell out of the sky". The only "plunge" lately has been the ValuJet crash...THAT was a plunge! Oh and I love how every small, general aviation aircraft that crashes is a Cessna!:|

I'm almost positive that this crash has nothing to do with cracks in the wing spar or skin. I wish I knew more about this crash and incidents leading to it but, when you have a thrust component 1.33 times greater than a 747 with post combustion (re-heating of exhaust gases) on takeoff you'd think that you wouldn't want cracks anywhere around the engine shrouds or internally.This aircraft doesn't use modern fanjets (jets that spin a large main rotor, like a ducted propeller that in the process, 75-80% of the main rotors thrust travels around the actual engine and out of the back) like the 747, 767, 757 etc. The Concorde uses a straight through combustion method that has no by-pass from the front rotor (otherwise known as turbojets). These are the only type of engines that can efficiently reach supersonic speeds efficiently and they become highly dangerous at slow speeds, hence the engine fire prior to the crash.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8952/0fre_tech.htm

This is why these are no longer used in most commercial aviation applications. This is a shame knowing how much maintenance this aircraft must take and maintenance records have been meticulous 'til now. Somebody slacked....BAD. I feel the blame lies squarely on the maintenance companies for this crash.

My condolensces go out to the pilots, passengers, and hotel guests that passed due to this crash.:(


 

Aquaman

Lifer
Dec 17, 1999
25,054
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What can I say but my sincere condolences to all the families who lost thier loved ones in this tragic crash :( :( :( :( :( :(

Respectfully,
Aquaman