Conclusion to old thread

[tomywishbone]

Original thread was: Topic Title: College student dies after being injured in a crowd following last night's Red Sox game. I was unable to activate the original thread.

Boston police to stop using pellet guns Thu Feb 22, 9:54 AM ET


BOSTON - The Boston Police Department is getting rid of the pepper-pellet guns blamed for the death of a college student during Red Sox celebrations more than two years ago.

"Never. They'll never again be used in the city of Boston," police Commissioner Edward Davis told the Boston Herald for Thursday's editions.

The department's 13 pellet guns, bought before the 2004 Democratic National Convention, will be melted down and recycled into sewer caps.

The weapons, designed to deliver non-lethal force, haven't been used since Oct. 21, 2004 when Emerson College student Victoria Snelgrove died hours after being struck in the left eye with a pellet fired by police.

Snelgrove's death, which occurred as thousands of people celebrated the Red Sox American League Championship Series Game Seven victory over the New York Yankees, was the only time the weapons were used by Boston police. Two other revelers were struck in the head and survived.

Davis decided they weren't fit for the department. The weapons were "much more powerful than what they were perceived to be," he said.

The department will use horse patrols or pepper spray foggers for future crowd control issues, Davis said.

Boston paid a $5.1 million settlement to Snelgrove's parents. The Snelgroves also reached an undisclosed settlement with the gun's manufacturer.

End----------------------------------------------------

 

[jpeyton]

Such a waste.

Mortally wounded near Fenway Park when an FN 303 blunt trauma / pepper spray projectile - classified as a less-lethal weapon - hit her in her eye, causing her to bleed excessively. Snelgrove died at 12:50 p.m. EDT at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, about 12 hours after being shot. According to the autopsy, the pellet opened a three-quarter-inch hole in the bone behind the eye, broke into nine pieces, and damaged the right side of her brain. A video of the scene shows the crowd dispersing once they realized the severity of her injury as she lay face-down on the ground bleeding.

Fvcking pigs.

I'm glad to see that the city of Boston and the gun manufacturer paid through the nose for this.

 

[intogamer]

I remember back in 7th grade my classmate said his brother kicked the gaterade bottle by accident at the police officer and it cause him to aim straight and shoot her

 

[RelaxTheMind]

The guy who lived in my house previously. His brother was going down road with a girl on his motorcycle. Cop pulls him over and shoots him point blank in the head then drives off. Turns out he just rode a similar bike of a guy that his wife cheated on him with.

To this day he hates cops with a passion.

May have seen on tv.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I'm glad to see that the city of Boston and the gun manufacturer paid through the nose for this.

So you mean you're glad that the tax payers of Boston paid for it?

Was she doing anything in particular that caused the weapon to be fired at her, or did it hit her by accident?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
So you mean you're glad that the tax payers of Boston paid for it?

a big payout would certainly persuade a government department to change it's policy. if they were not forced to pay out 5 million dollars, would they still be using these deadly pellet guns?

 

[George P Burdell]

What a way to go

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I'm glad to see that the city of Boston and the gun manufacturer paid through the nose for this.

So you mean you're glad that the tax payers of Boston paid for it?

Was she doing anything in particular that caused the weapon to be fired at her, or did it hit her by accident?

It was actually pure accident, assuming I have my incidents correct. She was shot at point blank range when she tripped and fell toward police as the officer was aiming well below eye level to hit the crowd in the chest/legs. It was by sheer chance that she was hit in the eye and died from it.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: FallenHero
It was actually pure accident, assuming I have my incidents correct. She was shot at point blank range when she tripped and fell toward police as the officer was aiming well below eye level to hit the crowd in the chest/legs. It was by sheer chance that she was hit in the eye and died from it.

So, and I'm not saying this to be smartass, how exactly is this the Boston PD's fault? It was an accident.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: FallenHero
It was actually pure accident, assuming I have my incidents correct. She was shot at point blank range when she tripped and fell toward police as the officer was aiming well below eye level to hit the crowd in the chest/legs. It was by sheer chance that she was hit in the eye and died from it.

So, and I'm not saying this to be smartass, how exactly is this the Boston PD's fault? It was an accident.

That's what I was wondering, too.

that makes it sound like it was a freak accident.

And why the hell did the gun manufacturer settle?

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: FallenHero
It was actually pure accident, assuming I have my incidents correct. She was shot at point blank range when she tripped and fell toward police as the officer was aiming well below eye level to hit the crowd in the chest/legs. It was by sheer chance that she was hit in the eye and died from it.

So, and I'm not saying this to be smartass, how exactly is this the Boston PD's fault? It was an accident.

the pellet opened a three-quarter-inch hole in the bone behind the eye, broke into nine pieces, and damaged the right side of her brain.

The assesment that this was a less-lethal or nonlethal crowd control tool was fundamentally flawed. The officers were given a tool that they thought they could use without lethal results, and that thing could easily kill by damaging a femoral artery, for example. It was a negligent act for the manufacturer to taut is as non-lethal and the department to put it in service without testing.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: FallenHero
It was actually pure accident, assuming I have my incidents correct. She was shot at point blank range when she tripped and fell toward police as the officer was aiming well below eye level to hit the crowd in the chest/legs. It was by sheer chance that she was hit in the eye and died from it.

So, and I'm not saying this to be smartass, how exactly is this the Boston PD's fault? It was an accident.

If the gun can break bones, what's it going to do to soft tissue?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: skyking
The assesment that this was a less-lethal or nonlethal crowd control tool was fundamentally flawed. The officers were given a tool that they thought they could use without lethal results, and that thing could easily kill by damaging a femoral artery, for example. It was a negligent act for the manufacturer to taut is as non-lethal and the department to put it in service without testing.

It was less-lethal in that it wouldn't have killed her if it weren't for some freak accident. What exactly was the crowd doing? Do they have no responsbility here?

 

[jpeyton]

It's not some 'freak accident'. The weapon was created to be fired randomly into crowds to disperse them.

A random crowd is just that. You don't have people lining up uniformly, all at the same height, all facing the same direction, all motionless.

If the weapon is deadly hitting any area of the body, it's potentially lethal.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's not some 'freak accident'. The weapon was created to be fired randomly into crowds to disperse them.

A random crowd is just that. You don't have people lining up uniformly, all at the same height, all facing the same direction, all motionless.

If the weapon is deadly hitting any area of the body, it's potentially lethal.

Calm down there killer. The death itself WAS an accident. Any amount of force, including punches and pepper spray can be lethal if used in sufficient quantities or where an "ideal" circumstance exists. I am not trying to say that it wasn't a tragic death, but to say it "wasnt just a freak accident" would be a gross exaggeration of the situation.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
The guy who lived in my house previously. His brother was going down road with a girl on his motorcycle. Cop pulls him over and shoots him point blank in the head then drives off. Turns out he just rode a similar bike of a guy that his wife cheated on him with.

To this day he hates cops with a passion.

May have seen on tv.

Yeah, this one time I was younger I went to the grocery store and a Mexican stabbed me

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: FallenHero
Calm down there killer. The death itself WAS an accident. Any amount of force, including punches and pepper spray can be lethal if used in sufficient quantities or where an "ideal" circumstance exists. I am not trying to say that it wasn't a tragic death, but to say it "wasnt just a freak accident" would be a gross exaggeration of the situation.

So what other circumstances were present beyond the pellet hitting the eye socket?

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: FallenHero
Calm down there killer. The death itself WAS an accident. Any amount of force, including punches and pepper spray can be lethal if used in sufficient quantities or where an "ideal" circumstance exists. I am not trying to say that it wasn't a tragic death, but to say it "wasnt just a freak accident" would be a gross exaggeration of the situation.

So what other circumstances were present beyond the pellet hitting the eye socket?

Perhaps the training to NOT aim for the head (basic to all less lethal projectiles) and that fact that the girl (again assuming I have the incident correct) tripped forward into the path of the oncoming projectile. You aim for center mass or a bit lower in the case of a crowd.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: FallenHero
Calm down there killer. The death itself WAS an accident. Any amount of force, including punches and pepper spray can be lethal if used in sufficient quantities or where an "ideal" circumstance exists. I am not trying to say that it wasn't a tragic death, but to say it "wasnt just a freak accident" would be a gross exaggeration of the situation.

So what other circumstances were present beyond the pellet hitting the eye socket?

Perhaps the training to NOT aim for the head (basic to all less lethal projectiles) and that fact that the girl (again assuming I have the incident correct) tripped forward into the path of the oncoming projectile. You aim for center mass or a bit lower in the case of a crowd.

I get it; so you tell the person you're aiming for to stand still so the projectile will hit them in the correct body part? I'm sure that kind of communication is crystal clear and 100% effective in a riot/crowd control situation.

Regardless, lack of training is the city's fault, so they should pay up.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: FallenHero
Calm down there killer. The death itself WAS an accident. Any amount of force, including punches and pepper spray can be lethal if used in sufficient quantities or where an "ideal" circumstance exists. I am not trying to say that it wasn't a tragic death, but to say it "wasnt just a freak accident" would be a gross exaggeration of the situation.

So what other circumstances were present beyond the pellet hitting the eye socket?

Perhaps the training to NOT aim for the head (basic to all less lethal projectiles) and that fact that the girl (again assuming I have the incident correct) tripped forward into the path of the oncoming projectile. You aim for center mass or a bit lower in the case of a crowd.

I get it; so you tell the person you're aiming for to stand still so the projectile will hit them in the correct body part? I'm sure that kind of communication is crystal clear and 100% effective in a riot/crowd control situation.

Regardless, lack of training is the city's fault, so they should pay up.

How is it not an accident when that occurs, thats my point.

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: jagec
If the gun can break bones, what's it going to do to soft tissue?

How thick is the bone behind the eye?

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: jpeyton
It's not some 'freak accident'. The weapon was created to be fired randomly into crowds to disperse them.

A random crowd is just that. You don't have people lining up uniformly, all at the same height, all facing the same direction, all motionless.

If the weapon is deadly hitting any area of the body, it's potentially lethal.

Calm down there killer. The death itself WAS an accident. Any amount of force, including punches and pepper spray can be lethal if used in sufficient quantities or where an "ideal" circumstance exists. I am not trying to say that it wasn't a tragic death, but to say it "wasnt just a freak accident" would be a gross exaggeration of the situation.

The death itself was an accident, but it was also a case of extreme negligence on the part of the police department.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I'm glad to see that the city of Boston and the gun manufacturer paid through the nose for this.

So you mean you're glad that the tax payers of Boston paid for it?

Was she doing anything in particular that caused the weapon to be fired at her, or did it hit her by accident?

It was actually pure accident, assuming I have my incidents correct. She was shot at point blank range when she tripped and fell toward police as the officer was aiming well below eye level to hit the crowd in the chest/legs. It was by sheer chance that she was hit in the eye and died from it.

What about the other two people also hit in the head?

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: zixxer

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I'm glad to see that the city of Boston and the gun manufacturer paid through the nose for this.

So you mean you're glad that the tax payers of Boston paid for it?

Was she doing anything in particular that caused the weapon to be fired at her, or did it hit her by accident?

It was actually pure accident, assuming I have my incidents correct. She was shot at point blank range when she tripped and fell toward police as the officer was aiming well below eye level to hit the crowd in the chest/legs. It was by sheer chance that she was hit in the eye and died from it.

What about the other two people also hit in the head and who survived?

Fixed

 

[SonnyDaze]

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
The guy who lived in my house previously. His brother was going down road with a girl on his motorcycle. Cop pulls him over and shoots him point blank in the head then drives off. Turns out he just rode a similar bike of a guy that his wife cheated on him with.

To this day he hates cops with a passion.

May have seen on tv.

Nice little story there.

Back on topic......if this story is 2 years old, why was it brought up again?