Concerns about AEG posters here

[Fern]

Please see this LINK.

While I'm sure the mods/admin are aware of this to some extent, I wish to politely emphasize that this may have negative ramifications to our forum and kindly suggest they consider what, if any, steps would be appropriate.

!) Should a "disclaimer" be inserted somewhere to warn the unexpecting of this practice?

2) I feel advertisers should pay AT for their advertisements. Not some shill disquised as "member", posting "free" advertising for his/her "employer. Why should AT host advertisemnets yet get not get paid for it?

Is there any way we can discourage this activity? Make new registrants/members atest that they are not in this type of stealth program(s).

What do AT's attorneys think of this activity?

Thanks,

Fern

 

[SickBeast]

Well, how are the mods supposed to tell the difference between a fanboy and one of these "AEG people"? I mean really, Rollo perfectly fits the bill of an AEG guy.

 

[morrisbj]

Originally posted by: Fern
Is there any way we can discourage this activity? Make new registrants/members atest that they are not in this type of stealth program(s).

What do AT's attorneys think of this activity?

My guess would be that there isn't much way to discourage/prevent this. AEG reaches out to respected (although fanboyish) members of forums like AT. The people who would be doing this are already registered, so it wouldn't make much difference to poll new registrants.

I would be interested what, if anything AT's legal team might have to say about it, but I think unless someone posts actual product advertisements rather than just giving their suggestions/glowing reviews of particular products, little can be done.

 

[Greenman]

I'd guess they just want the whole thing to go away. It can't be stopped, it can't be proven, and you just know there is going to be a bunch of "this guy works for AEC" threads.

My advice to you is just let it go.

 

[WelshBloke]

Well undisclosed company reps that post on message boards are banned and I dont really see a difference here.

Posters behaviour is usually a good hint on if their involved with this, the two I suspected pretty much confirmed it in that thread.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
Well undisclosed company reps that post on message boards are banned and I dont really see a difference here.

Posters behaviour is usually a good hint on if their involved with this, the two I suspected pretty much confirmed it in that thread.

Who did you suspect?

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
Well undisclosed company reps that post on message boards are banned and I dont really see a difference here.

Posters behaviour is usually a good hint on if their involved with this, the two I suspected pretty much confirmed it in that thread.

Who did you suspect?

I'm sure you can work it out and I'd rather not call people out in public.

I'm going for some r + r now as a bit tired

 

[Cooler]

Limit the number of "Fan Boy" Posts by each member to 5 day and one new thread problem solved. Break the rule see ya next month.

 

[apoppin]

i really doubt we will hear from AT's lawyers . . . but i'd like to be surprised. i imagine they will look for the more obvious ones. Perhaps AT will contact AEG directly with a bill . . . after all, AEG admits they hit all the forums - even the "remote" ones.

From MS Games' glowing recommendation of AEG:

While most PR agencies find it beneath them or a waste of their time to interact with the smallest fan site or the most remote online forum, Arbuthnot understands that these passionate fans are the ones that turn so-so titles into blockbusters

Maybe AT can get some back pay out of this. 😉
:thumbsup:

 

[fierydemise]

Yes lets ban all the marketing shills, step 1 find them. The basic problem is that no one knows who they are, we may have suspicions but feelings aren't evidence and I'd hate to ban an innocent person just for expressing strong views on a subject.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Well, how are the mods supposed to tell the difference between a fanboy and one of these "AEG people"? Fern here, I got a bit "wordy" - my direct answer to your question is below point #4

I don't think we (or the mods/admin) can be expected to do that. However, if Anand himself, the mods & admin etc feel as I do that:


1) This type of activity is detrimental to the purpose, reputation, and percieved usefullness of the forums. And that AEG is "using" the privelage of posting in an unitended and (I think can be argued & proven by policies practiced) unauthorized manner.

2) It reasonable to conclude that AT (and others) is sufering loss of revenue as these companies are "advertising" here and avoiding paying for such by use of surrogates masquraiding as general public members.

3) There may be additional erosion of revenuse. Those companies paying for banners may be swayed by AEG to disconinue paying AT and switch to using AEG services. I think AEG self-promotional statements can clearly be viewed as encourageing that. After all, ad budgets, like all others, are limited.

4) I believe that AEG is benefiting from the AT (and other forums) in an unauthorized fashion, selling advertising on such forums without compensation to them. Similar to "selling" as space on billboards or renting real estate they don't even own. They are "high-jacking" these forums for their profit and at a detriment to them.


I would suggest considering opening discussions with other forums to see if they feel the same way. The purpose of the discussions would be to explore working together to tharwt this activity of AEG.

Clearly AEG knows whom they have paid to "advertise" here and elsewhere on behalf on their clients.

Perhaps they (AEG) can be persuaded or compelled to disclose the identity of such individuals. Although I w/b generally be hesitant to opt for litigation to force disclosure, doing so with a consortium of other forums may be more attractive.

As you can tell, I do not like AEG's business model. I feel it is "parasitic" and that they are in effect "stealing" from these forums.

Fern

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Well, how are the mods supposed to tell the difference between a fanboy and one of these "AEG people"? Fern here, I got a bit "wordy" - my direct answer to your question is below point #4

I don't think we (or the mods/admin) can be expected to do that. However, if Anand himself, the mods & admin etc feel as I do that:


1) This type of activity is detrimental to the purpose, reputation, and percieved usefullness of the forums. And that AEG is "using" the privelage of posting in an unitended and (I think can be argued & proven by policies practiced) unauthorized manner.

2) It reasonable to conclude that AT (and others) is sufering loss of revenue as these companies are "advertising" here and avoiding paying for such by use of surrogates masquraiding as general public members.

3) There may be additional erosion of revenuse. Those companies paying for banners may be swayed by AEG to disconinue paying AT and switch to using AEG services. I think AEG self-promotional statements can clearly be viewed as encourageing that. After all, ad budgets, like all others, are limited.

4) I believe that AEG is benefiting from the AT (and other forums) in an unauthorized fashion, selling advertising on such forums without compensation to them. Similar to "selling" as space on billboards or renting real estate they don't even own. They are "high-jacking" these forums for their profit and at a detriment to them.


I would suggest considering opening discussions with other forums to see if they feel the same way. The purpose of the discussions would be to explore working together to tharwt this activity of AEG.

Clearly AEG knows whom they have paid to "advertise" here and elsewhere on behalf on their clients.

Perhaps they (AEG) can be persuaded or compelled to disclose the identity of such individuals. Although I w/b generally be hesitant to opt for litigation to force disclosure, doing so with a consortium of other forums may be more attractive.

As you can tell, I do not like AEG's business model. I feel it is "parasitic" and that they are in effect "stealing" from these forums.

Fern

It's wordy, but you made some good points. I agree with you that this type of thing is very irritating and could be very detrimental to the forums here. Like you said though, the only way to really get to the bottom of it is to somehow force the AEG company to disclose who the "moles" are. That's no easy task. Unfortunately it looks as though this problem will be a very difficult one to get rid of.

 

[DrPizza]

Fight back?
Urge members to support businesses that don't engage in these practices.
Keep a sticky at the top of some of the forums that states, "Warning to members receiving advice on hardware from other members. We are aware that the following companies are rewarding people to pose as unbiased users to promote their products. We caution you to carefully consider advice given when receiving guidance from members to purchase products from these companies. We also urge members who are contacted about participating in such advertising to inform us such that we can better track these practices."
List the companies that are known to use this form of advertising,
Convince operators of other tech forums to follow suit

Inform NVidia, etc., that in general, members of these tech communities come here for unbiased opinions and want to keep it that way, thus they are being informed of these advertising practices. Convince Nvidia, etc. to tell their advertising agencies to stop.

For what it's worth, I've always suspected a couple people in Hot Deals who constantly list standard deals ("sales") from certain companies to be employees of those companies. For a while, it was almost too obvious! 20 posts a week, 18 of which were in threads about deals from those same certain few companies.

 

[DrPizza]

btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, even if you are j/k, you have a point. Some people mentioned McCarthy style "witch hunts" and genuine, honest but enthusiastic forum members will feel like communist's in the U.S. in the 1950's, because now eyebrows will raise and fingers will be pointed (as they already are) at anyone who appears overly enthusiastic about a piece of silicon slapped on a PCB. Sad times for all of us.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, even if you are j/k, you have a point. Some people mentioned McCarthy style "witch hunts" and genuine, honest but enthusiastic forum members will feel like communist's in the U.S. in the 1950's, because now eyebrows will raise and fingers will be pointed (as they already are) at anyone who appears overly enthusiastic about a piece of silicon slapped on a PCB. Sad times for all of us.

That's why I suggested stopping it by putting pressure on the companies that advertise with AEG. A little negative advertising - letting companies know that the members here are being informed of the surreptitious advertising being done, and that in general, such advertising is frowned on heavily by members. So tell NVidia - "Great. Go ahead and give free video cards to people to convince them to promote your company. We're letting people here know that you're doing so, and it's going to backfire - people won't even believe your REAL fans anymore, let alone your hired goons."

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, I said that because it's true, there is no way to stop it. The only way to halt it is to make it unprofitable for nvidia. And the only way to do that is to stop buying nvidia products untill they change there evil ways. Something I've already decided to do.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention, the 2005 join date is code. Everyone that shows a join date between 01 and 04 2005 is a mod, we use that so other mods will know who we are.
(The secret handshake didn't work out all that well).

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Greenman

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, I said that because it's true, there is no way to stop it. The only way to halt it is to make it unprofitable for nvidia. And the only way to do that is to stop buying nvidia products untill they change there evil ways. Something I've already decided to do.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention, the 2005 join date is code. Everyone that shows a join date between 01 and 04 2005 is a mod, we use that so other mods will know who we are.
(The secret handshake didn't work out all that well).

LOL
Good plan!

Stop buying a companies products because of what has been speculated about one of their marketing tactics, when you don't know if the company you choose to buy from is doing the exact same thing, just hasn't had their thread yet.

Makes sense to me.

BTW if any mods are reading this, is Greenmans suggestion I be burned at the stake (based on his speculation) and naming me in that thread the kind of thing we allow on the message boards at AT?

Seems to me that sort of thing totally violates terms of service?

Thread should probably be locked or deleted given the amount of finger pointing based on Salem-esque witch logic going on there?

 

[Greenman]

BTW if any mods are reading this, is Greenmans suggestion I be burned at the stake (based on his speculation) and naming me in that thread the kind of thing we allow on the message boards at AT?

Seems to me that sort of thing totally violates terms of service?

Thread should probably be locked or deleted given the amount of finger pointing based on Salem-esque witch logic going on there?

Lets not put a Rollo spin on this. My response to the OP in that thread was that It made me think of you Rollo, I never said I thought you were involved in it. We all know you're the biggest nvidia fanboy here, how could anyone who knows you read it and not think of you?
My "burn Rollo at the stake" post was humor, perhaps not very good, but still humor. Don't even try to pretend you viewed it as a threat. (I offered to bring hot dogs for pete's sake).
Mods: Read the post, if any of you think I was threating Rollo, I'll post a very heart felt appolgy and accept my ban without ever uttering a bad word about Anandtech anywhere on the web.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Greenman

BTW if any mods are reading this, is Greenmans suggestion I be burned at the stake (based on his speculation) and naming me in that thread the kind of thing we allow on the message boards at AT?

Seems to me that sort of thing totally violates terms of service?

Thread should probably be locked or deleted given the amount of finger pointing based on Salem-esque witch logic going on there?

Lets not put a Rollo spin on this. My response to the OP in that thread was that It made me think of you Rollo, I never said I thought you were involved in it. We all know you're the biggest nvidia fanboy here, how could anyone who knows you read it and not think of you?
My "burn Rollo at the stake" post was humor, perhaps not very good, but still humor. Don't even try to pretend you viewed it as a threat. (I offered to bring hot dogs for pete's sake).
Mods: Read the post, if any of you think I was threating Rollo, I'll post a very heart felt appolgy and accept my ban without ever uttering a bad word about Anandtech anywhere on the web.

Greenman, If I post I want to burn you at the stake and drink beer while doing so, and then in another thread say "It was all a big joke" I've still violated TOS.

Supposedly we're not allowed to threaten other members, or make baseless flame driven accusations against them?

I'm saddened you opted to spit in the mods faces with such a flagrant violation. 🙁

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, even if you are j/k, you have a point. Some people mentioned McCarthy style "witch hunts" and genuine, honest but enthusiastic forum members will feel like communist's in the U.S. in the 1950's, because now eyebrows will raise and fingers will be pointed (as they already are) at anyone who appears overly enthusiastic about a piece of silicon slapped on a PCB. Sad times for all of us.

Remember who's FAULT it is . . . nVidia CHOSE viral marketing by AEG and are quite pleased with the results . . .there would be NO "witch hunt" if AEG simply DISCLOSED who is advertising on these boards.

And i see Rollo desperate to divert attention away from this topic by ANY means . . . as usual
:thumbsdown:

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, even if you are j/k, you have a point. Some people mentioned McCarthy style "witch hunts" and genuine, honest but enthusiastic forum members will feel like communist's in the U.S. in the 1950's, because now eyebrows will raise and fingers will be pointed (as they already are) at anyone who appears overly enthusiastic about a piece of silicon slapped on a PCB. Sad times for all of us.

Remember who's FAULT it is . . . nVidia CHOSE viral marketing by AEG and are quite pleased with the results . . .there would be NO "witch hunt" if AEG simply DISCLOSED who is advertising on these boards.

And i see Rollo desperate to divert attention away from this topic by ANY means . . . as usual
:thumbsdown:

More baseless, shameless, unsubstantiated FUD from a poster who used to have something usefull to say every now and again. :thumbsdown:

nVidia and AEG owe you about as much as I owe you: nothing. (except perhaps contempt for these flamebait, pointless posts)

Where exactly does nVidia state they employ AEG to use viral marketing?


<crickets chirping>

But wise Apoppin' somehow KNOWS the EXACT nature of their relationship......except you don't. You know nothing, and no matter how many times you post about what you GUESS is going on, you still know......nothing.

Poor Apoppin', reporter without a story.

LOL

You're like some pathetic reporter outside a meeting between George Bush and the leader of China.
Apoppin': Well, we know from our search of the web that China is involved in a form of government referred to as communism! What reason could George Bush have to meet with a communist leader except to plan a conversion to communism!?!?!

:laugh:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, even if you are j/k, you have a point. Some people mentioned McCarthy style "witch hunts" and genuine, honest but enthusiastic forum members will feel like communist's in the U.S. in the 1950's, because now eyebrows will raise and fingers will be pointed (as they already are) at anyone who appears overly enthusiastic about a piece of silicon slapped on a PCB. Sad times for all of us.

Remember who's FAULT it is . . . nVidia CHOSE viral marketing by AEG and are quite pleased with the results . . .there would be NO "witch hunt" if AEG simply DISCLOSED who is advertising on these boards.

And i see Rollo desperate to divert attention away from this topic by ANY means . . . as usual
:thumbsdown:

More baseless, shameless, unsubstantiated FUD from a poster who used to have something usefull to say every now and again. :thumbsdown:

nVidia and AEG owe you about as much as I owe you: nothing. (except perhaps contempt for these flamebait, pointless posts)

Where exactly does nVidia state they employ AEG to use viral marketing?


<crickets chirping>

But wise Apoppin' somehow KNOWS the EXACT nature of their relationship......except you don't. You know nothing, and no matter how many times you post about what you GUESS is going on, you still know......nothing.

Poor Apoppin', reporter without a story.

LOL

You're like some pathetic reporter outside a meeting between George Bush and the leader of China.
Apoppin': Well, we know from our search of the web that China is involved in a form of government referred to as communism! What reason could George Bush have to meet with a communist leader except to plan a conversion to communism!?!?!

:laugh:

you're getting more and more desperate to cover for your beloved company . . . it is really showing and almost pathetic . . .

i thought you had more self-respect then to take the obvious troll tactic of [again] attacking the messenger instead of replying to the message. . . . well, not really

Clearly the AT posters think it IS newsworthy and the sentiment is running over 2:1 AGAINST the viral marketing nVidia employs AEG to use. . .

it is clear that nVidia does this crap from the article . . . read it again and truly attempt to answer what is written there. . . . if you dare

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw, watch these guys with suspicion: morrisbj, Greenman, and fierydemise
They seem to be saying "there's no way to stop it, nothing you can do" to convince you to just lie down and not fight back.
Maybe THEY work for AEG too!! All joined in 2005... all actually pay attention to forum issues... hmmmm... I don't have stats, but I'll bet there are a LOT of members who have been here for years who have never entered the forum issues forum...

(j/k, kinda)

Well, even if you are j/k, you have a point. Some people mentioned McCarthy style "witch hunts" and genuine, honest but enthusiastic forum members will feel like communist's in the U.S. in the 1950's, because now eyebrows will raise and fingers will be pointed (as they already are) at anyone who appears overly enthusiastic about a piece of silicon slapped on a PCB. Sad times for all of us.

Remember who's FAULT it is . . . nVidia CHOSE viral marketing by AEG and are quite pleased with the results . . .there would be NO "witch hunt" if AEG simply DISCLOSED who is advertising on these boards.

And i see Rollo desperate to divert attention away from this topic by ANY means . . . as usual
:thumbsdown:

More baseless, shameless, unsubstantiated FUD from a poster who used to have something usefull to say every now and again. :thumbsdown:

nVidia and AEG owe you about as much as I owe you: nothing. (except perhaps contempt for these flamebait, pointless posts)

Where exactly does nVidia state they employ AEG to use viral marketing?


<crickets chirping>

But wise Apoppin' somehow KNOWS the EXACT nature of their relationship......except you don't. You know nothing, and no matter how many times you post about what you GUESS is going on, you still know......nothing.

Poor Apoppin', reporter without a story.

LOL

You're like some pathetic reporter outside a meeting between George Bush and the leader of China.
Apoppin': Well, we know from our search of the web that China is involved in a form of government referred to as communism! What reason could George Bush have to meet with a communist leader except to plan a conversion to communism!?!?!

:laugh:

you're getting more and more desperate to cover for your beloved company . . . it is really showing and almost pathetic . . .

i thought you had more self-respect then to take the obvious troll tactic of [again] attacking the messenger instead of replying to the message. . . . well, not really

Clearly the AT posters think it IS newsworthy and the sentiment is running over 2:1 AGAINST the viral marketing nVidia employs AEG to use. . .

it is clear that nVidia does this crap from the article . . . read it again and truly attempt to answer what is written there. . . . if you dare

OK re-read it. Still leaves me with the reporter with no story analogy for you Apoppin.

Here's why:
1. They allude to unnamed sources. OK how to verify that info? Can't.
2. They post some public info off of AEGs website. OK, does that mean they are using every one of those tactics for nVidia? Who knows. Does that mean they're using those tactics here, or on any board we've heard of? Who knows? Which tactics? Which boards? Which members? What was asked of the members? Who knows.

 

[Greenman]

Greenman, If I post I want to burn you at the stake and drink beer while doing so, and then in another thread say "It was all a big joke" I've still violated TOS.

Supposedly we're not allowed to threaten other members, or make baseless flame driven accusations against them?

I'm saddened you opted to spit in the mods faces with such a flagrant violation. 🙁

Nice spin Rollo. Unfortunately it has nothing to do with the facts. Find the post where I said Rollo is involved with AEC, go look now, I?ll wait??????????..
Didn?t find it did you? Though you might have found the post where I said I would never accuse you of involvement with AEC. You might also have found my post where I said I disagree with banning people that appear to be involved with AEC, because that would start a witch hunt. Which brings us back to the post you find oh so threatening and offensive, my comment about burning Rollo at the stake. The point of that comment was that the witch hunt had started.
Rollo, I'm sorry you and nvidia are taking such a beating in that thread, but don't try to hang it on me. You're the one who created your image, you're the one trying to do damage controll for nvidia. I'm just having some fun and making so-so jokes.