Concealed-carry shooter in Albuquerque saves woman

[DaveSimmons]

Some ammo for those believing in gun ownership and concealed-carry rights:
New Mexican story with comments

I support "well-regulated" ownership of at least up to semi-automatics, after mandatory training and background checks.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

So does that mean ONE suicide or homicide provides a rationale to oppose gun ownership and concealed-carry?

 

[Todd33]

Sorry, the guy could have been stopped with any number of ways, many non-lethal. I'd fear a bunch of yahoos with concealed guns over the occasional lunatic with a knife.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Sorry, the guy could have been stopped with any number of ways, many non-lethal. I'd fear a bunch of yahoos with concealed guns over the occasional lunatic with a knife.

I'm not sure how I feel about gun control really, but this story is hardly a great argument for those in favor on concealed-carry laws.

 

[zendari]

It's his constituional right to bear arms and he used it properly in this case to prevent a violent crime.

I'm not sure how I feel about gun control really, but this story is hardly a great argument for those in favor on concealed-carry laws.

I'd say it was just the opposite. Who knows what could have happened had this man not intervened?

If you can't discharge a firearm when some madman is trying to stab his wife under what situations can you use one?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Sorry, the guy could have been stopped with any number of ways, many non-lethal. I'd fear a bunch of yahoos with concealed guns over the occasional lunatic with a knife.

Yea, a 71 year old "yahoo" who saved a woman's life.

:roll:

The law was used as intended and did indeed result in a life saved. Every time a CC law is passed people like you bring up the same tired mantra of the streets running read with the blood of innocents at the hands of reckless CC holders. Of course this does not happen, but why let logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

CC holders are subject to more intense checks than any gun owners outide NFA weapons owners.

 

[arsbanned]

Some ammo against:
Some guy shot a bunch of people in front of a church yesterday, including the pastor and his wife. And then himself. So I suppose the weapon was of some use.

Originally posted by: Todd33
Sorry, the guy could have been stopped with any number of ways, many non-lethal. I'd fear a bunch of yahoos with concealed guns over the occasional lunatic with a knife.

Umm, if I see someone getting stabbed and I have my choice of my bare hands or a gun to stop him, I'm going to select the gun. Could non-lethal means have been used to stop OJ? I rest my case.


Edit: Not sure if the guy in the church incident had a CC permit or not, so that may not be relevant. So, everyone go buy a gun and start blasting away!

 

[Todd33]

Sorry, if I saw a guy stabbing his wife I knock him on the head with the nearest heavy object or just sucker punch him, not fire a hand gun in a Walmart. If the guy missed and hit the wife (or yours) I'm sure you would post the same story in support to concealed guns?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Sorry, if I saw a guy stabbing his wife I knock him on the head with the nearest heavy object or just sucker punch him, not fire a hand gun in a Walmart. If the guy missed and hit the wife (or yours) I'm sure you would post the same story in support to concealed guns?

The wife could have been stabbed several more times while you hunted for a heavy object. Going up against him unarmed might not have worked out for a 71-year-old.

This gun owner was trained.

As I said, I support gun ownership for people who are trained in proper handling and who pass background checks. I'd even support requiring a certain level of marksmanship just like an eye exam for a driver's license.

 

[azazyel]

As far as the whole issue of gun control goes, I don't really have a problem with people owning guns as long as they are registered.

For this situation, too little facts. Did the guy with the gun try to talk the guy out of what he was doing or did he just open fire? From the sound of it, it seems like this might have been a dream for this guy.

"He was the fourth person ever to sign up for a permit," Patton said. "I've now done more than 300 of them."

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Sorry, if I saw a guy stabbing his wife I knock him on the head with the nearest heavy object or just sucker punch him, not fire a hand gun in a Walmart. If the guy missed and hit the wife (or yours) I'm sure you would post the same story in support to concealed guns?

Good luck finding a heavy object and getting to the guy 20 feet away in time. Then oh, of course, you get yourself stabbed too when you try to punch him.

These people are properly trained in the use of firearms. Collateral damage is an unfortunate side effect even with the police.

Again, if you can't discharge a firearm when some madman is trying to stab his wife under what situations can you use one?

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Todd33
Sorry, if I saw a guy stabbing his wife I knock him on the head with the nearest heavy object or just sucker punch him, not fire a hand gun in a Walmart. If the guy missed and hit the wife (or yours) I'm sure you would post the same story in support to concealed guns?

Good luck finding a heavy object and getting to the guy 20 feet away in time. Then oh, of course, you get yourself stabbed too when you try to punch him.

These people are properly trained in the use of firearms. Collateral damage is an unfortunate side effect even with the police.

Again, if you can't discharge a firearm when some madman is trying to stab his wife under what situations can you use one?

shooting range? or do you prefer live targets?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: azazyel
For this situation, too little facts. Did the guy with the gun try to talk the guy out of what he was doing or did he just open fire? From the sound of it, it seems like this might have been a dream for this guy.

What he was doing was already stabbing his ex-wife several times. He was probably too busy with the stabbing to engage in conversation.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: azazyel
shooting range? or do you prefer live targets?

One of the primary purposes of a firearm is to protect the lives of people. Apparently a knife isn't "dangerous" enough to use one, according to the liberals. So what is? If the madman has an assault rifle? A bomb? A chainsaw?

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: azazyel
For this situation, too little facts. Did the guy with the gun try to talk the guy out of what he was doing or did he just open fire? From the sound of it, it seems like this might have been a dream for this guy.

What he was doing was already stabbing his ex-wife several times. He was probably too busy with the stabbing to engage in conversation.

Even the police will usually yell something before they open fire. Just saying there weren't many facts in the story. In the comment section someone said that he shot him twice in non lethal areas before it finally killed him. If that's true that's good. If he just hobbled up behind the guy and unloaded into the dudes head, that's bad.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: azazyel
shooting range? or do you prefer live targets?

One of the primary purposes of a firearm is to protect the lives of people. Apparently a knife isn't "dangerous" enough to use one, according to the liberals. So what is? If the madman has an assault rifle? A bomb? A chainsaw?

No, the purpose of a firearm is to kill things. A bulletproof vest or lead wall protects people.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: azazyel
shooting range? or do you prefer live targets?

One of the primary purposes of a firearm is to protect the lives of people. Apparently a knife isn't "dangerous" enough to use one, according to the liberals. So what is? If the madman has an assault rifle? A bomb? A chainsaw?

What are the other primary purposes? Killing for food, a deterrent against aggression, providing a since of security... Doesn't matter, again like I stated earlier we don't know what exactly led up to the killing. And plus you guys act like she was carved up like a piece of meat, she was released the same day. If you were suffering from just shock they would still keep you overnight.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: azazyel
What are the other primary purposes? Killing for food, a deterrent against aggression, providing a since of security... Doesn't matter, again like I stated earlier we don't know what exactly led up to the killing. And plus you guys act like she was carved up like a piece of meat, she was released the same day. If you were suffering from just shock they would still keep you overnight.

Are you just arguing for the hell of it or do you actually believe what you're saying?

There is no requirement to wait until someone is actually hurt, or to a level of damage before using potentially lethal force.

The mere THREAT is sufficient, you could justifiably shoot the SOB for threatening her with the knife - He wouldn't even have to cut her.

CCW exists to allow people to defend themselves & those around them, in this case it seems to have worked quite well.

If your profiles is accurate & you live in Washington (a shall issue state) you probably see CCW folks every day & don't even realize it.

Viper GTS

 

[yllus]

Any of you ever take martial arts, specifically anything involving weapon use? It's remarkably hard to avoid getting at least a little cut up when you get within arm's length to try and knock the guy out.

I don't know about you guys, but I rather shoot to kill from a couple of feet instead of letting some poor woman get stabbed a few more times and then getting sliced up a little myself with a bloody blade in an attempt to stop some kook.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I have a hard time taking seriously any argument that this guy wasn't justified in using his pistol, or that his shooting the assailant here didn't help the stabbing victim - it sounds like it may well have saved her life.

In the main, the nonbiased studies on implementation of liberal concealed-carry laws (not that there are many nonbiased studies on such a polarizing issue) seem to indicate little net gain or reduction in crime, although I suppose there's a significant amount of positive and negative behavior done by CCW permit holders that goes unreported.

I like guns and own them, but have never had much interest in carrying - it seems to me the liabilities outweigh the benefits for the most part. Actually, I recall a contributing member of the Glock Talk bulletin board, which I used to frequent quite often, was killed when he tried to use his legal concealed pistol against a liquor-store robber.

 

[Zebo]

They run stories like this every month in the NRA publications I get. Happens all the time but the mainstream media rarly reports it. Liberal media? No statist media, corporate media who's goal in disarming us so we can really be a victim to whatever statist plans they have for us..conscription..taxed to obivian...personal monitoring etc. Nothing more I dispise poltically than a gun grabber who would take someones ultimate right away, the right to self-defense.

One problem with taking the "law into your own hands" like this though is statist DA's, statist cops and statist judges will make sure you are at least open for civil liability which could bankrupt you and at worst try you for murder 2. I rarley Carry Concealed for this very reason unless camping/vactioning in an unknown local or road trip.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

As I said, I support gun ownership for people who are trained in proper handling and who pass background checks. I'd even support requiring a certain level of marksmanship just like an eye exam for a driver's license.

As I said, I support right to speak for people who are trained in proper speech and who pass background checks. I'd even support requiring a certain level of forensics like a debate exam or a 101 into-to-logic class.:roll:

What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? Yes registration, CCW's or what you just called for are unconsititutional until wild liberal interpretations are applied to the "living document". :|

 

[Velk]

What is the relevance of the concealed carry to the linked article ? I freely admit I have no idea if there is some specific legal meaning to the term that's non obvious from the title.

If the person in said article was carrying the weapon openly in a hip holster or something would that make a difference ?

 

[BMGSkulk]

Cool.
I own two guns...just for self-protection.

My dad has a CHP.

Guns, like them or not, are here, and will always be here.

Nothing you can do about it.

Unless you can also get rid of all the people in the world who rob, steal, rape, and murder.

That won't happen either.

REALITY people...reality.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: DonVito
I have a hard time taking seriously any argument that this guy wasn't justified in using his pistol, or that his shooting the assailant here didn't help the stabbing victim - it sounds like it may well have saved her life.

In the main, the nonbiased studies on implementation of liberal concealed-carry laws (not that there are many nonbiased studies on such a polarizing issue) seem to indicate little net gain or reduction in crime, although I suppose there's a significant amount of positive and negative behavior done by CCW permit holders that goes unreported.

I like guns and own them, but have never had much interest in carrying - it seems to me the liabilities outweigh the benefits for the most part. Actually, I recall a contributing member of the Glock Talk bulletin board, which I used to frequent quite often, was killed when he tried to use his legal concealed pistol against a liquor-store robber.

I was thinking he was too hasty in using his gun, but now that I think about it, I think my initial reaction was the wrong one.