Conan O?Brien Loses Late-Night Lead in Second Week on ?Tonight Show?

[Pocatello]

I think Conan is funny, but perhaps people are used to Leno.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Leno was Carsons #1 choice to fill in for him when he was out. Carson hand picked Leno to replace him. I don't believe NBA had their hand in it. Letterman was established with his own show, and would have made more sense for a replacement in NBC's eyes. And after Carson left, him and Jay stayed friends, Carson even had Jay over to his poker games. I've never read anywhere about Carson hating Leno. Yeah he liked Letterman but I think he did pick Leno himself, without input from NBC.

I know Carson never did stand up, but he could have because he was just that funny. Conan, no way in hell he could pull of a stand up concert. Same with Letterman. Conan doing a stand up special would be about as painful to watch as Carson Daily doing a stand up special.

Again, you have your history entirely wrong. Carson wanted Letterman to replace him, and was pissed enough about NBC's hiring Leno that he advised Letterman to leave the network and compete with the Tonight Show. Leno didn't even mention Carson on his first show. I have no idea where you're getting your information, but it's categorically wrong.

Letterman WAS a successful standup - this is how he and Leno first became friends, and how he met Carson - Carson loved Letterman's standup, and he was one of Carson's favorite guests on the Tonight Show in the 70s.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Pocatello
I think Conan is funny, but perhaps people are used to Leno.

He's at an eariler timeslot which more older people watch and Conan relies only on kiddie humor which of course, the older audience wouldn't find funny. Whether you like him or not, his comedic style doesn't fit well in the earlier timeslot he's in.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: scorpious
I hate old people.

Originally posted by: shiner
You kids get off my lawn!!!!

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: QueBert


Leno's actually a stand up comedian who sells out shows on a regular basis when he's not doing the Tonight Show. Conan is not a stand up comedian, so I would have to say people who like Conan are the ones who find shit that's not really that funny, funny. If Conan is so good at comedy, why can't I go to Vegas and see a him do a show? Letterman doesn't do stand up, because he knows he's not funny enough. Also, Leno was funny enough in Carson's eyes to get Tonight Show gig after he retired. And he's just as good now as he was back then. So I hate to burst your bubble, but when it comes to knowing what's funny I'd say Carson knows just a bit fucking more than you do.

This is some bizarre analysis - you obviously know nothing about the politics that led to Leno getting the Tonight Show. Carson loved Letterman and hated Leno.

I agree with you that Leno is a great standup, but he's a total bore as a talk show host (ironically, his best TV appearances were as a guest on the Letterman show in the '80s). I don't think being a great standup is critical to being a great talk show host - Carson never did standup at all, for example.

Leno was Carsons #1 choice to fill in for him when he was out. Carson hand picked Leno to replace him. I don't believe NBA had their hand in it. Letterman was established with his own show, and would have made more sense for a replacement in NBC's eyes. And after Carson left, him and Jay stayed friends, Carson even had Jay over to his poker games. I've never read anywhere about Carson hating Leno. Yeah he liked Letterman but I think he did pick Leno himself, without input from NBC.

I know Carson never did stand up, but he could have because he was just that funny. Conan, no way in hell he could pull of a stand up concert. Same with Letterman. Conan doing a stand up special would be about as painful to watch as Carson Daily doing a stand up special.

According to the 1996 movie "The Late Shift"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116835/
Carson was fond of letterman but didn't have much of a say in his replacement. He got wind that he was going to be discarded and quit before they could fire him. The movie portrayed the players at nbc and cbs as some cutthroat mf's. I saw it in 96-97 and remember it being pretty interesting - like the movie "quiz show". Letterman started looking elsewhere when it became uncertain about getting the tonight show and, through a new agent, discovered that he could command a much higher salary. During all of this, it appears that paul shaffer wasn't in his considerations.

After some time as nbc host, some at nbc wanted to fire leno and jack welch nixed it. And then most know about leno having to fire his manager and longtime friend (and pitbull) when she became too abrasive.

 

[Boo Boo]

conan sucks, he is not a people person like jay.
and also i find it in bad taste he tries to copy johnnys stage. to me hes not funny at all id rather piss broken glass out my penis

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: QueBert


Leno's actually a stand up comedian who sells out shows on a regular basis when he's not doing the Tonight Show. Conan is not a stand up comedian, so I would have to say people who like Conan are the ones who find shit that's not really that funny, funny. If Conan is so good at comedy, why can't I go to Vegas and see a him do a show? Letterman doesn't do stand up, because he knows he's not funny enough. Also, Leno was funny enough in Carson's eyes to get Tonight Show gig after he retired. And he's just as good now as he was back then. So I hate to burst your bubble, but when it comes to knowing what's funny I'd say Carson knows just a bit fucking more than you do.

This is some bizarre analysis - you obviously know nothing about the politics that led to Leno getting the Tonight Show. Carson loved Letterman and hated Leno.

I agree with you that Leno is a great standup, but he's a total bore as a talk show host (ironically, his best TV appearances were as a guest on the Letterman show in the '80s). I don't think being a great standup is critical to being a great talk show host - Carson never did standup at all, for example.

Leno was Carsons #1 choice to fill in for him when he was out. Carson hand picked Leno to replace him. I don't believe NBA had their hand in it. Letterman was established with his own show, and would have made more sense for a replacement in NBC's eyes. And after Carson left, him and Jay stayed friends, Carson even had Jay over to his poker games. I've never read anywhere about Carson hating Leno. Yeah he liked Letterman but I think he did pick Leno himself, without input from NBC.

I know Carson never did stand up, but he could have because he was just that funny. Conan, no way in hell he could pull of a stand up concert. Same with Letterman. Conan doing a stand up special would be about as painful to watch as Carson Daily doing a stand up special.

Alright, you keep doing it. The National fucking Basketball Association has NOTHING to do with the NATIONAL BROADCASTING COMPANY's late night programming.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Boo Boo
conan sucks, he is not a people person like jay.
and also i find it in bad taste he tries to copy johnnys stage. to me hes not funny at all id rather piss broken glass out my penis

Thanks for that image.

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: PimpJuice

Originally posted by: lizardboy

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: Blayze
Not really surprised. Conan has always been hit and miss with me, and he isn't popular with the older crowd (the ones I know don't watch the Tonight Show anymore). Fallon has also improved on Late Night, and I've actually been enjoying his show a lot more than Conan's Tonight Show.

Can't wait until September when Leno returns, although I don't know how well the 10pm time slot will work.

It'll work fine, Leno is fucking awesome. Conan is good at times, Letterman and the rest all suck. Leno owned the late night slot from day one until he decided to move till 10. At 10 he will no competition. If anything his already high ratings should go way up.

I love listening to people who have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. Leno did not "choose" to go to 10, he was forced. Leno did not "own" from Day 1, in fact, Letterman kicked his ass the first couple years. Leno's "high ratings" are expected to be destroyed by whatever the other networks air at 10pm (CSI Miami, etc.). The local affiliates are going to go bonkers b/c Leno's low ratings are going to destroy their 11pm newscasts. Don't expect more than one season of Leno 5 nights per week @ 10pm.

Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. Leno said he wanted to retire......so they gave Conan the contract, then Leno changed his mind and had nowhere to go but 10pm.

Get your facts straight if you're going to call someone out.

Seriously, what the fuck are you smoking? NBC was afraid of losing Conan to a rival network when his contract was up so they put this plan in place back in 2004 to have Conan replace Leno in 2009. The only thing Leno has ever wanted was The Tonight Show. Anything he said about "wanting to retire" was just Jay being a good soldier. When 2009 rolled around and Leno was still kicking everyone's ass in the 11:35 slot, NBC panicked and realized they had to find a way to keep Jay. Otherwise Jay would have likely gone to ABC or Fox and started a rival show that most likely would have destroyed Conan in the ratings. Leno never "changed his mind" in any way.

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: PimpJuice

Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. Leno said he wanted to retire......so they gave Conan the contract, then Leno changed his mind and had nowhere to go but 10pm.

Get your facts straight if you're going to call someone out.

This is not the case. It was widely reported that NBC (foolishly IMO) promised the Tonight Show to Conan to keep him at the network, with a huge liquidated damages clause in case they didn't follow through. Leno did announce his "retirement," but don't take that to mean this was his decision - it certainly seems totally inconsistent with the fact that he continues to do 300+ standup appearances per year and is now hosting a prime time show 5 nights a week. Jay has never appeared to have any interest at all in retirement.

I have always thought Leno was a highly talented comic (his appearances on Letterman in the 1980s were just brilliant), but his Tonight Show sucked IMO - he has always played to the lowest common denominator and been a complete kiss-ass to his guests. That being said, his ratings have been great for years and I found it an incredible decision by NBC to pull him off the Tonight Show in favor of Conan, who I think is a much better host but who will alienate many older viewers.

As for the prime time show, we shall see. Frankly I hope it fails because I think Leno is a phony and his show is boring. I don't know that prime time audiences want what is essentially another Tonight Show, and the kind of viewership he garnered on the Tonight Show would be considered a total failure in prime time. He may well be successful, though - only time will tell, and there really isn't enough recent precedent for what NBC is trying to know whether this will work.

exactly

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: lizardboy

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: Blayze
Not really surprised. Conan has always been hit and miss with me, and he isn't popular with the older crowd (the ones I know don't watch the Tonight Show anymore). Fallon has also improved on Late Night, and I've actually been enjoying his show a lot more than Conan's Tonight Show.

Can't wait until September when Leno returns, although I don't know how well the 10pm time slot will work.

It'll work fine, Leno is fucking awesome. Conan is good at times, Letterman and the rest all suck. Leno owned the late night slot from day one until he decided to move till 10. At 10 he will no competition. If anything his already high ratings should go way up.

I love listening to people who have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. Leno did not "choose" to go to 10, he was forced. Leno did not "own" from Day 1, in fact, Letterman kicked his ass the first couple years. Leno's "high ratings" are expected to be destroyed by whatever the other networks air at 10pm (CSI Miami, etc.). The local affiliates are going to go bonkers b/c Leno's low ratings are going to destroy their 11pm newscasts. Don't expect more than one season of Leno 5 nights per week @ 10pm.

Here is how it is, Leno claimed he wanted to retire, NBA told Conan it would be his slot. There was no official contract at the time. It was just words on NBA's parts. Leno ended up wanting to stay, but didn't want to stay at 11:30. Conan MIGHT have had a contract at the time, but I doubt it. The bottom line is Leno pulls in the best late night numbers by far, and if Leno had wanted to stay at 11:30 NBC would have let him. Do you really think if he had wanted to, NBC would have said "no no no Jay, 11:30 is Conan" if push had came to shove NBC would have kept Leno to keep him happy and told Conan to stay at 12:30 or GTFO. Probably offering his a shit ton of money to stay at 12:30, Conan is nowhere near as valuable, and is totally un proven at 11:30. Leno wanted to do something different.

As for other networks destroying Leno at 10 lol where did you read this? LOL sounds like your personal opinion. In fact, it is because nobody with a brain would write Leno off before the damn show has even aired. NBC has nothing but confidence in Leno. And his fans will follow him to whatever time slot he has. I'm willing to bet if Leno had demanded 11:30 back and wanted Conan off NBC. Conan would be doing his show on [insert other network] Leno is NBC's bread and butter when it comes to ratings.

When you start with "Leno claimed he wanted to retire..." you lose all credibility. Your remaining credibility is lost when you use "NBA" instead of "NBC". Other than that, great job. :roll:

 

[lizardboy]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: QueBert


Leno's actually a stand up comedian who sells out shows on a regular basis when he's not doing the Tonight Show. Conan is not a stand up comedian, so I would have to say people who like Conan are the ones who find shit that's not really that funny, funny. If Conan is so good at comedy, why can't I go to Vegas and see a him do a show? Letterman doesn't do stand up, because he knows he's not funny enough. Also, Leno was funny enough in Carson's eyes to get Tonight Show gig after he retired. And he's just as good now as he was back then. So I hate to burst your bubble, but when it comes to knowing what's funny I'd say Carson knows just a bit fucking more than you do.

This is some bizarre analysis - you obviously know nothing about the politics that led to Leno getting the Tonight Show. Carson loved Letterman and hated Leno.

I agree with you that Leno is a great standup, but he's a total bore as a talk show host (ironically, his best TV appearances were as a guest on the Letterman show in the '80s). I don't think being a great standup is critical to being a great talk show host - Carson never did standup at all, for example.

Leno was Carsons #1 choice to fill in for him when he was out. Carson hand picked Leno to replace him. I don't believe NBA had their hand in it. Letterman was established with his own show, and would have made more sense for a replacement in NBC's eyes. And after Carson left, him and Jay stayed friends, Carson even had Jay over to his poker games. I've never read anywhere about Carson hating Leno. Yeah he liked Letterman but I think he did pick Leno himself, without input from NBC.

I know Carson never did stand up, but he could have because he was just that funny. Conan, no way in hell he could pull of a stand up concert. Same with Letterman. Conan doing a stand up special would be about as painful to watch as Carson Daily doing a stand up special.

You could not be more of a fucking moron if you tried. Go read the book "The Late Shift" by Bill Carter (or rent the inferior made-for-TV movie if reading is too difficult for you) and get a fucking clue. Leno was never, absolutely never, Carson's choice to take over the show. Carson always wanted Dave to get that job. That's why Carson never made any appearances on The Tonight Show after Leno took over while he wrote some jokes *and* appeared on Letterman's show three times in '93 and '94. After Carson died, his former producer and band leader appeared on Letterman's show, not Jay's, for the same reason.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: lizardboy
...
You could not be more of a fucking moron if you tried. ...

Why so angry?

On second thought, I don't really want to know.

Do you need to be so angry?

 

[PimpJuice]

Originally posted by: lizardboy

Originally posted by: PimpJuice

Originally posted by: lizardboy

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: Blayze
Not really surprised. Conan has always been hit and miss with me, and he isn't popular with the older crowd (the ones I know don't watch the Tonight Show anymore). Fallon has also improved on Late Night, and I've actually been enjoying his show a lot more than Conan's Tonight Show.

Can't wait until September when Leno returns, although I don't know how well the 10pm time slot will work.

It'll work fine, Leno is fucking awesome. Conan is good at times, Letterman and the rest all suck. Leno owned the late night slot from day one until he decided to move till 10. At 10 he will no competition. If anything his already high ratings should go way up.

I love listening to people who have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. Leno did not "choose" to go to 10, he was forced. Leno did not "own" from Day 1, in fact, Letterman kicked his ass the first couple years. Leno's "high ratings" are expected to be destroyed by whatever the other networks air at 10pm (CSI Miami, etc.). The local affiliates are going to go bonkers b/c Leno's low ratings are going to destroy their 11pm newscasts. Don't expect more than one season of Leno 5 nights per week @ 10pm.

Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about. Leno said he wanted to retire......so they gave Conan the contract, then Leno changed his mind and had nowhere to go but 10pm.

Get your facts straight if you're going to call someone out.

Seriously, what the fuck are you smoking? NBC was afraid of losing Conan to a rival network when his contract was up so they put this plan in place back in 2004 to have Conan replace Leno in 2009. The only thing Leno has ever wanted was The Tonight Show. Anything he said about "wanting to retire" was just Jay being a good soldier. When 2009 rolled around and Leno was still kicking everyone's ass in the 11:35 slot, NBC panicked and realized they had to find a way to keep Jay. Otherwise Jay would have likely gone to ABC or Fox and started a rival show that most likely would have destroyed Conan in the ratings. Leno never "changed his mind" in any way.

You do know that Leno agreed to the arrangement (because he thought it would be a good time to retire in 5+ years)? He was okay with it, then later changed his mind and wanted to stay on after the arrangement was agreed upon. They never told Leno to retire, that would be stupid........

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: QueBert

Leno was Carsons #1 choice to fill in for him when he was out. Carson hand picked Leno to replace him. I don't believe NBA had their hand in it. Letterman was established with his own show, and would have made more sense for a replacement in NBC's eyes. And after Carson left, him and Jay stayed friends, Carson even had Jay over to his poker games. I've never read anywhere about Carson hating Leno. Yeah he liked Letterman but I think he did pick Leno himself, without input from NBC.

I know Carson never did stand up, but he could have because he was just that funny. Conan, no way in hell he could pull of a stand up concert. Same with Letterman. Conan doing a stand up special would be about as painful to watch as Carson Daily doing a stand up special.

Again, you have your history entirely wrong. Carson wanted Letterman to replace him, and was pissed enough about NBC's hiring Leno that he advised Letterman to leave the network and compete with the Tonight Show. Leno didn't even mention Carson on his first show. I have no idea where you're getting your information, but it's categorically wrong.

Letterman WAS a successful standup - this is how he and Leno first became friends, and how he met Carson - Carson loved Letterman's standup, and he was one of Carson's favorite guests on the Tonight Show in the 70s.

This is correct. Carson liked Letterman so much he recommended him for his own show- and Late Night was born. Carson was so close to Letterman than he made his only other TV appearance after leaving the Tonight Show on Letterman's CBS show (he didn't say anything---the crowd cheered for like 5 minutes and he couldn't get a word in, so he just left). A day or two after Carson died, Letterman did a bunch of jokes during his monologue that seemed to be a bit dated. They had subjects about things that happened over the last several years. After the monologue, he revealed that the jokes were sent to him over the years by Johnny Carson, who would write them for David's amusement just to "get them out of his system."

Leno became host of the tonight show because people were familiar with him as a guest host (during the 80's there were dozens of hosts---Joan Rivers was also very frequent, but Jay rose to the top). Letterman's show was very successful, but they were afraid that his odd comedy (which was, ironically, VERY SIMILAR to Conan's brand of comedy) would not work with the Tonight Show audience...which was typically in the 40-70 age range. Carson always thought that Letterman should have been his successor, but NBC thought otherwise, and the feud began. Jay has always regretted Dave's feelings, but it really wasn't his fault.

I was a big fan of all the shows, and am old enough that I watched this mess unfold as it happened.

 

[her209]

Hahaha

 

[lizardboy]

bump - Leno's ratings falls to a new low

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/a-new-low-for-leno/

 

[lokiju]

NBC’s other late-night star. Jimmy Fallon, hit his lowest number to date Monday night in those household ratings, a 0.9

😀

 

[darkxshade]

Jimmy Fallon needs a sex scandal desperately.

 

[NFS4]

Wow, NBC just can't catch a break. How pathetic this network has come since its highs of the 80s and 90s.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

NBC’s other late-night star. Jimmy Fallon, hit his lowest number to date Monday night in those household ratings, a 0.9

really? i thought it would be lower.