Computer Science vs Computer Engineer

JC0133

Senior member
Nov 2, 2010
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I am wondering which one of these majors have more job opportunities in general?

If you are a CE and your focus is with Digital Systems, VHDL/Verilog, etc? Do you have a lot of job opportunities? For some reason I can only think of Companies like Intel and AMD hiring a CE with these skills. I am sure that is not true so looking for a little more insight here.

I am sure a lot of things come into factor here. More then I am looking at.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
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Don't forget all the ARM processor designers. And all the embedded processor designers.
 

unokitty

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Jan 5, 2012
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A few thoughts.

You might want to consider a bit of a different process. That is, identify a job and work backwards to what degree(s) would qualify you for that job.

Another thought, certain schools have well established internship programs. You might try to identify those schools and see which internships would appeal to you...

And yet another thought, you might identify some companies that may have a suitable career job. And then try to get a part time, or summer, job where you could meet people that are working in your area of interest. Ask them what, and where, they studied.

Having said that, technologies that I expect will be in demand include wireless communications, cloud computing, and mobile computing.

Best of luck,
Uno
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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In this current age you need multiple skill sets. Take a minor in college. In the Computer field you can expect to get layed off several times.

Networking and Security or an empasis on Database/SQL implementation.

Maybe you should just ask some people from Intel what kind of degrees make sense? Depends what kind of job you are looking for. Some schools like degrees in Electrical Engineering. Better study a lot of math. For engineering colleges start at Calculus. Study up on electric circuits, gates and switches.

Project Management is another way to approach the business or computer field.
 
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JC0133

Senior member
Nov 2, 2010
201
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I really appreciate the input. I really like the idea of working backwards, and looking to talk to someone from Intel to see what type of majors they prefer. I don't know anybody that works at Intel but I am guessing I can go to their jobs website and look up the descriptions/requirements.

I am not good with wireless communication so I will probably stay away from that field.

What is cloud computing? Is this something a CE or CS major should know? Or is this just a good skill to have in general?

Also I am still learning a lot but I thought Database/SQL was more towards IT not computer science or computer engineering?
 

Jman13

Senior member
Apr 9, 2001
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Well, CS and CE overlap a lot (and CE is often a joint degree with more general Electrical Engineering.) The base coursework is pretty similar for the first year or two.

What interests you, though? CS and CE are actually pretty similar. CS is programming. CE is programming with hardware. I originally went to college with the aim of doing CE. CS never interested me because I didn't particularly like programming...the debugging process drives me nuts. Then I took my first CE course, and we needed to design an 8-bit ALU and we programmed it onto FPGA chips. What a nightmare. We had it designed in a working manner, but something about the multiplication was broken, and the debugging process to fix it was agony. So I switched to straight EE, eventually concentrating in digital signal processing.

Now I'm an electrical engineer, but I do power and lighting engineering at a consulting firm, so instead of designing DSPs, I design power and lighting systems for commercial and government buildings, infrastructure, etc.

I guess my point is....your final job may be different from the degree or the concentration. Both DSP engineers and me are electrical engineers, but we do pretty different things. A general electrical or electrical and computer engineering degree gives you pretty broad opportunity for jobs, at least in the beginning.

Oh, and if you have any aspiration to become a Professional Engineer, take the fundamentals exam your last semester of college. I waited, and it sucked when I had to study for it several years out of college. No matter...I'm a PE now, so it didn't end up mattering too much, but it would have been nice to have that out of the way from the beginning.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
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Cloud Computing is a term that is used multiple ways. For the near future, I suspect that it will continue to evolve.

In the old days, if an organization needed to do something, they built their own infrastructure: hardware and software.

Then, virtual computing became popular. That is, we had multiple operating systems providing multiple services on a single physical hardware system.

Now, we have taken that analogy and moved the hardware system from the organization's data center to another physical location. And the organization receives the computing services it needs from the Cloud (over the Internet).

While this oversimplifies the situation, my expectation is that the evolution to cloud computing will have a significant impact on future jobs.

Best of luck,
Uno

--Also, if your school has career days where recruiters come to campus, be sure to go and talk to them about who they are hiring and what they are looking for...
--Often times, colleges will employ part time teachers (adjuncts), that have full time jobs. If you have a teacher that works in the industry ask them what they do... Don't be afraid to ask for a tour.. (In Graduate School, I had an adjunct professor that was a Director at the Broward County Sherrif's Office. Was able to do an interesting case study when they upgraded one of their Unix Systems.)
 

mfenn

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Jan 17, 2010
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If you think that Computer Science is programming, you're not a very good computer scientist. Programming is a fundamental skill necessary for CS, but it is not CS anymore than solving differential equations is an EE.

Computer Science, at its core, is mathematics in the context of discrete numbers. Engineers work in the real (i.e. continuous) system of numbers, so their mathematical skills are much different than a computer scientist's. Formal reasoning, logic, and number theory are the fundamentals of computer science (as opposed to Calculus). Some people find that they are more suited to one over the other. For example: I can prove theorems all day long, but put me in front of a bunch of diffy-Qs and I just want to kill myself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
--Often times, colleges will employ part time teachers (adjuncts), that have full time jobs. If you have a teacher that works in the industry ask them what they do... Don't be afraid to ask for a tour.. (In Graduate School, I had an adjunct professor that was a Director at the Broward County Sherrif's Office. Was able to do an interesting case study when they upgraded one of their Unix Systems.)

:thumbsup::thumbsup: to this. Nothing like spending a little time with the job to figure out if it's really for you or not.
 

AD5MB

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Nov 1, 2011
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we have a university with these programs here: bottom line: you get 5 years with either degree. if you don't get a job doing bleeding edge research you're moving backwards. 5 years from now you have a degree in how it used to be done.
 

TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
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we have a university with these programs here: bottom line: you get 5 years with either degree. if you don't get a job doing bleeding edge research you're moving backwards. 5 years from now you have a degree in how it used to be done.

Incredibly demotivating but makes sense.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
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There are more CS Jobs but some of them are Not much of a Science and the pay might be lower.

CE Jobs are fewer, but in general they pay better.


:cool:
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
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If you think that Computer Science is programming, you're not a very good computer scientist. Programming is a fundamental skill necessary for CS, but it is not CS anymore than solving differential equations is an EE.

Computer Science, at its core, is mathematics in the context of discrete numbers. Engineers work in the real (i.e. continuous) system of numbers, so their mathematical skills are much different than a computer scientist's. Formal reasoning, logic, and number theory are the fundamentals of computer science (as opposed to Calculus). Some people find that they are more suited to one over the other. For example: I can prove theorems all day long, but put me in front of a bunch of diffy-Qs and I just want to kill myself.


:thumbsup::thumbsup: to this. Nothing like spending a little time with the job to figure out if it's really for you or not.

EE's program just as much CS people...and it's not just real numbers. Infact, unless you do power systems, you will be an EE with a VERY limited skill set if you cannot program.

In reality, whether you take EE, CE, or CS, the path is your to take. I have friends that did EE and they ended up doing CS work. It can happen the other way around, but it would be a much harder transition.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
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we have a university with these programs here: bottom line: you get 5 years with either degree. if you don't get a job doing bleeding edge research you're moving backwards. 5 years from now you have a degree in how it used to be done.

That is not true at all.... maybe for CS because of the buzz word stuff (ruby on rails...), but the hardware stuff only evolves. If you programmed an ARM processor 5 years ago, you still do it the same way today. If you program PLCs, that will never change in your lifetime. Hell, there are still new plants that run on SLC 5/05s. One of the hottest fields right now is mobile development. It's just Java and then you choose some scripting language to run with it. How long has Java been around? If you cannot keep up with a simple protocol change (from Parallel to USB) or new languages (Python has exploded now), then you should be looking for a different career.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
2
0
Well, CS and CE overlap a lot (and CE is often a joint degree with more general Electrical Engineering.) The base coursework is pretty similar for the first year or two.

What interests you, though? CS and CE are actually pretty similar. CS is programming. CE is programming with hardware. I originally went to college with the aim of doing CE. CS never interested me because I didn't particularly like programming...the debugging process drives me nuts. Then I took my first CE course, and we needed to design an 8-bit ALU and we programmed it onto FPGA chips. What a nightmare. We had it designed in a working manner, but something about the multiplication was broken, and the debugging process to fix it was agony. So I switched to straight EE, eventually concentrating in digital signal processing.

Now I'm an electrical engineer, but I do power and lighting engineering at a consulting firm, so instead of designing DSPs, I design power and lighting systems for commercial and government buildings, infrastructure, etc.

I guess my point is....your final job may be different from the degree or the concentration. Both DSP engineers and me are electrical engineers, but we do pretty different things. A general electrical or electrical and computer engineering degree gives you pretty broad opportunity for jobs, at least in the beginning.

Oh, and if you have any aspiration to become a Professional Engineer, take the fundamentals exam your last semester of college. I waited, and it sucked when I had to study for it several years out of college. No matter...I'm a PE now, so it didn't end up mattering too much, but it would have been nice to have that out of the way from the beginning.

LOL...same here. I waited to take the FE. I failed it twice. I passed the third time, but I then left the field... oh well
 

mfenn

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Jan 17, 2010
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EE's program just as much CS people...and it's not just real numbers. Infact, unless you do power systems, you will be an EE with a VERY limited skill set if you cannot program.

In reality, whether you take EE, CE, or CS, the path is your to take. I have friends that did EE and they ended up doing CS work. It can happen the other way around, but it would be a much harder transition.

Where did I say that EE's don't program? Examples are just that, examples.

"Programming" is such a broad and varied skillset that it's hard to categorize it. The type of low-level assembly programming done by a firmware developer is much different from writing a highly software engineered Java enterprise package. An a computer scientist writing Haskell is just as different from each those as they are from each other.
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
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Where did I say that EE's don't program? Examples are just that, examples.

"Programming" is such a broad and varied skillset that it's hard to categorize it. The type of low-level assembly programming done by a firmware developer is much different from writing a highly software engineered Java enterprise package. An a computer scientist writing Haskell is just as different from each those as they are from each other.

You said

"Computer Science, at its core, is mathematics in the context of discrete numbers. Engineers work in the real (i.e. continuous) system of numbers, so their mathematical skills are much different than a computer scientist's. Formal reasoning, logic, and number theory are the fundamentals of computer science (as opposed to Calculus). Some people find that they are more suited to one over the other. For example: I can prove theorems all day long, but put me in front of a bunch of diffy-Qs and I just want to kill myself."

That is not the complete truth at all. EE's can do just as much discrete (like DSP stuff and digital logic) as a CS person does and a CS person can do just as much continuous as an EE person does. You can't define careers like this anymore. Everything is becoming s intertwined. Just look at the curriculum at college now...
 

mfenn

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Jan 17, 2010
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You said

"Computer Science, at its core, is mathematics in the context of discrete numbers. Engineers work in the real (i.e. continuous) system of numbers, so their mathematical skills are much different than a computer scientist's. Formal reasoning, logic, and number theory are the fundamentals of computer science (as opposed to Calculus). Some people find that they are more suited to one over the other. For example: I can prove theorems all day long, but put me in front of a bunch of diffy-Qs and I just want to kill myself."

That is not the complete truth at all. EE's can do just as much discrete (like DSP stuff and digital logic) as a CS person does and a CS person can do just as much continuous as an EE person does. You can't define careers like this anymore. Everything is becoming s intertwined. Just look at the curriculum at college now...

I am not challenging your statement that things are becoming intertwined. I am pointing out that your claim that I said "EE's don't program," is false.
 

JC0133

Senior member
Nov 2, 2010
201
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Thank you everyone, once again, I really appreciate all the feedback. I do have 1 or 2 more curiosity questions.

1. Based on some of the previous posts. If I got my undergrad degree in CE or CS or EE(seems like they are all closely related) and I got my masters in mathematics would this help increase my chances in getting a CE or CS job? Since mathematics seems to be such a strong base for both? I know the masters in CE or CS would be better but say I don't want to deal with the extra headache of engineering course anymore and I want a masters. Would a masters in math still help increase my creditability towards a CE or CS job.

2. Part of the reason I am asking my first questions above is not simple cause of the posts, it is cause I have heard of degrees that are called math & computer science. I haven't seen it at my college I just see math in LAS college and computer science in the engineering college. But after talking with some of my friends and checking out their schools, there are some schools that have math & computer science in their LAS college. Not sure what the difference is between that and the computer science major in the college of engineering but I am curious if anyone knows the difference between them?
 

Mr Bob

Golden Member
Sep 6, 2004
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Just keep in mind, that when it comes to jobs these days, it's more about WHO you know, rather than so much about what degree you have.

Maintain good relationships with people in high positions. Think about your internship long before your senior year. Maybe take a personal tour of the building/company you want to work for ahead of time, get to know some key people and maintain contact.

College is helpful, teaches you a bit, but more so is useful for preparing you to learn at your real job. School really only opens the door, it's not until you start working for a company that you begin to apply your *skills*
 

Gibson486

Lifer
Aug 9, 2000
18,378
2
0
Thank you everyone, once again, I really appreciate all the feedback. I do have 1 or 2 more curiosity questions.

1. Based on some of the previous posts. If I got my undergrad degree in CE or CS or EE(seems like they are all closely related) and I got my masters in mathematics would this help increase my chances in getting a CE or CS job? Since mathematics seems to be such a strong base for both? I know the masters in CE or CS would be better but say I don't want to deal with the extra headache of engineering course anymore and I want a masters. Would a masters in math still help increase my creditability towards a CE or CS job.

2. Part of the reason I am asking my first questions above is not simple cause of the posts, it is cause I have heard of degrees that are called math & computer science. I haven't seen it at my college I just see math in LAS college and computer science in the engineering college. But after talking with some of my friends and checking out their schools, there are some schools that have math & computer science in their LAS college. Not sure what the difference is between that and the computer science major in the college of engineering but I am curious if anyone knows the difference between them?

It's semantics. Some schools have them is Arts and Sciences, other have them in their own dept. Also, a masters in Math won't really help at all in either engineering or computer science because they will simply look at you then put you aside when they find a candidate who has a masters in engineering or computer science. Math is used at both, but the mind set is different. That is not to say it is not possible, however.
 
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mfenn

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Jan 17, 2010
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1. Based on some of the previous posts. If I got my undergrad degree in CE or CS or EE(seems like they are all closely related) and I got my masters in mathematics would this help increase my chances in getting a CE or CS job? Since mathematics seems to be such a strong base for both? I know the masters in CE or CS would be better but say I don't want to deal with the extra headache of engineering course anymore and I want a masters. Would a masters in math still help increase my creditability towards a CE or CS job.

Math is a really bad major to be in unless you go all the way to PhD. While you will have the skills to quickly learn lots of different fields, you will get passed over for somebody with a more specific degree.

2. Part of the reason I am asking my first questions above is not simple cause of the posts, it is cause I have heard of degrees that are called math & computer science. I haven't seen it at my college I just see math in LAS college and computer science in the engineering college. But after talking with some of my friends and checking out their schools, there are some schools that have math & computer science in their LAS college. Not sure what the difference is between that and the computer science major in the college of engineering but I am curious if anyone knows the difference between them?

Different schools have different focus areas in computer science. The more heavily theoretical programs will probably be closely associated with the math department. Others are in their own department/school or are lumped in closer to CE.
 

JC0133

Senior member
Nov 2, 2010
201
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Thanks again for the feedback its been really helpful. I have another questions.

When I was looking on the Jobs website I saw some jobs for BIOS programming.

What is BIOS programming? I mean I know BIOS help boot up the PC but I realize now I don't know much about it, in terms of how it is actually built/created. What languages are best to learn this? Is it Assembly? Can I practice this on my own?
 

omghaxcode

Senior member
Feb 8, 2007
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There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread and some really uninformed people. You probably shouldn't be posting if you're not a computer engineer/electrical engineer/computer scientists.

First of all, I'm a senior in computer engineering which instantly gives me more credence than most of the posts in this thread. Second, I interned at Motorola for 3 months and at Intel for 7 months so I know the answers to your industry questions.

Your initial post demonstrates your misunderstanding of what the fields of engineering really are. Electrical engineering is fundamentally math and physics. Some of the corporations an electrical engineer can expect to work for range from Intel, AMD, and Qualcomm to embedded system engineers at defense contractors like Boeing, Northrop Grumman, and Rayhteon. That is just a range, there is more than you can imagine like government (NASA, NSA, department of defense) and consumer electronics (sony, motorola, samsung). You can do anything from programming, low level device physics, hardware verification, signal processing, and much more.

Computer science is on the opposite end of the spectrum. It is more about math and programming than physics like EE is. Job opportunities for CS students also have a wide range and depend on what you're looking for. One of the most desired positions is tools development. That means both internal facing tools and external facing tools. For external, think Microsoft, Cisco, and IBM. These companies make tools for users like Work and productivity applications for businesses. Conversely, almost all major companies have many, many CS grads for their internal tools. For example, Intel is currently a top 10 software manufacturer in the world not necessarily because of drivers but because they need computer science majors to create the software that their engineers are using. There are hundreds of programs developed for internal use only at Intel just so their engineers can do what they need to do to actually make the chips and verify them. I use Intel as an example but all major tech companies have similar needs. Other CS jobs range from verification at any hardware company (hardware is much more than processors btw, think consumer electronics, military, telecom, space, etc) and pure software companies like Google, Amazon, and eBay.

Finally, computer engineering is right in the middle. It doesn't focus on math or physics but more on logic and computer architecture. Focuses with a computer engineering degree are a little bit broader since it combines aspects of CS and EE. My favorite part about it is you can do a CS job or an EE job based entirely off what you enjoy. For example, my school doesn't allow CompE's to get minors in CS or EE because they are so similar. It does however, let EE students get minors in CS because it is a little farther from CS than CE is. You can do anything a CS or EE student can do depending on what technical electives you decide to take. The "core" compE curriculum consists of computer architecture, logic design, and low level programming. Major employers are Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, ARM, TI, and others. It really can cover the spectrum. I know people working at Microsoft/Google with a CE degree and people working at fabs at Intel with a CE degree. It is entirely up to you.

You seem to have the notion that CE students just do Verilog or VHDL when in reality, I'd say most CE students end up doing verification in C. Some CE students do use those hardware-y languages but there are many more doing a wide range of things.

Specifically, to answer your Intel questions, they hire a huge range of people. They don't care about your degree, they care about your skillset. You can interview for any position and as long as you know the subject matter, they'll hire you. They need software devs for tools, physics majors and EE majors for transistor level work, CEs for hardware design, EE majors for fabrication process. All you need is a skill set that lines up with any of that and you can work there.

BIOS engineers design the bios that goes on both internal motherboards used for testing and the spec boards that go out to vendors that can be tweaked.
 

mfenn

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There are a lot of dumb posts in this thread and some really uninformed people. You probably shouldn't be posting if you're not a computer engineer/electrical engineer/computer scientists.

First of all, I'm a senior in computer engineering which instantly gives me more credence than most of the posts in this thread. Second, I interned at Motorola for 3 months and at Intel for 7 months so I know the answers to your industry questions.

You should probably hold off on insulting people with degrees until you actually get your first (or second) one. Thanks.

The rest of your post is mostly correct and gets a :thumbsup: from me though.
 
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