Computer Science/Engineering enrollment sharply declines.

[Martin]

Undergraduates in U.S. universities are starting to abandon their studies in computer technology and engineering amid widespread worries about the accelerating pace of offshoring by high-technology employers.
A new study, to be published in May, shows there was a dramatic drop-off of enrollment in those fields last year -- 19 percent -- and some educators warn about the potential consequences for America's global competitiveness.
Enrollment in undergraduate computer-science courses continued to grow after the collapse of the dot-com bubble until the sharp decline in the 2002-03 academic year, according to the Washington-based Computing Research Association. The number of newly declared majors in computer science also showed a sudden 23 percent plunge last year.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/8263034.htm

Hurray! More jobs for me when I graduate

 

[maddogchen]

Yes, in India hehe j/k

 

[KEV1N]

Good! Get yer scrubby asses out of the market!

 

[SuperTool]

Well, computer engineering isn't easy. Noone wants to burn out, work their behinds off in college and at work, only to have their job outsourced.
Even without the oursourcing problem, a lot of computer engineers quit and go do something else. I know 3 CS/EE people who are leaving their jobs after 2 years out of school to go get PHD's in totally unrelated lower paying fields. And they are making high 5 digits with solid job security. Now if you add outsourcing, you got a problem.

 

[dmcowen674]

This should be in the "No Sh1t Sherlock" thread.

 

[MAW1082]

Damnit. Not exactly the news I wanted to hear while working on my datapath for my MIPS machine.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Undergraduates in U.S. universities are starting to abandon their studies in computer technology and engineering amid widespread worries about the accelerating pace of offshoring by high-technology employers.
A new study, to be published in May, shows there was a dramatic drop-off of enrollment in those fields last year -- 19 percent -- and some educators warn about the potential consequences for America's global competitiveness.
Enrollment in undergraduate computer-science courses continued to grow after the collapse of the dot-com bubble until the sharp decline in the 2002-03 academic year, according to the Washington-based Computing Research Association. The number of newly declared majors in computer science also showed a sudden 23 percent plunge last year.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/8263034.htm

Hurray! More jobs for me when I graduate

Yea, I was thinking the same. Considering how much I already know I doubt I'll have that much of a problem

 

[DashRiprock]

More jobs for H1-B visa programmers/engineers from India, S. Korea, Vietnam, Russia & eastern Europe etc. who work for lower salaries and lower contracting rates.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: DashRiprock
More jobs for H1-B visa programmers/engineers from India, S. Korea, Vietnam, Russia & eastern Europe etc. who work for lower salaries and lower contracting rates.

Couldn't we pull some politically BS redefinition of these positions as vital to national security in order to keep them here?

Just dreaming, I guess, but I am worried about our future.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak


Hurray! More jobs for me when I graduate

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I read that as well.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

and some educators warn about the potential consequences for America's global competitiveness.

How much education can make an american compete with a 2$ an hour Indian. better take some economics courses with your computer science degree to learn how to turn 2$ an hour into a liveable wage.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

and some educators warn about the potential consequences for America's global competitiveness.

How much education can make an american compete with a 2$ an hour Indian. better take some economics courses with your computer science degree to learn how to turn 2$ an hour into a liveable wage.

Can any job compete with India? Well none goverment job because they don't really count? I guess their is midicen but it is only a matter of time until it will be cost efficit to fly to india to get a new heart or something.

 

[Ferocious]

Yeah unless your physically dealing with people in some fashion or another.....kiss your job goodbye sooner or later.

I graduated B.S.E.E. as a Tau Beta Pi member and worked for two companies for several years in the engineering field before I got out. Didn't like it much at all.

My current field (financial analysis) is probably going to be outsourced in a few years where I work.

 

[lozina]

I'm lucky to say I don't have any job security problems, and our IT department is looking like it will expand too (US employees, of course!) But I'm thinking about getting out for other reasons- I'm getting sick of sitting at a desk all day staring at a monitor programming/debugging. I'm willing to take a lower paying job that has fresh air and more physical involvement. Just haven't figured out what yet.

 

[alphatarget1]

yes because stupid college students do a business major and get drunk every night :/

everyone thinks they're gonna be making big bucks with ah sh!t business degree when their major requires no challenge at all comparing to the engineering curriculum and they don't realize that in a global economy they're not worth anything.

sorry... i had to talk smack about business students but their major really is a joke.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
yes because stupid college students do a business major and get drunk every night :/

everyone thinks they're gonna be making big bucks with ah sh!t business degree when their major requires no challenge at all comparing to the engineering curriculum and they don't realize that in a global economy they're not worth anything.

sorry... i had to talk smack about business students but their major really is a joke.

The funniest thing is business calc. Its like calculus that's dumbed down for business majors.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
yes because stupid college students do a business major and get drunk every night :/

everyone thinks they're gonna be making big bucks with ah sh!t business degree when their major requires no challenge at all comparing to the engineering curriculum and they don't realize that in a global economy they're not worth anything.

sorry... i had to talk smack about business students but their major really is a joke.

I'm going for a Dr. in international business, hopefully I'll do a good job of helping more company's out-source.

..flying to India for heart sergery... good idea.

 

[alphatarget1]

this is a disturbing trend though. americans don't give a crap about creativity anymore, especially our generation (and perhaps the next generation). people want big bucks and that's all they care for. well yeah, im in engineering for big bucks but i also believe in making the world a better place and i like building things. who gives a flying fvck about lawyers? I mean, sure there are some nice ones but most are just greedy fvcks that leech out of our society along with dumba$$es that sue for anything.

MESA majors are the only majors that require significant effort. most other majors, although some can be tough, do not require as much effort as engineering does. i know so many people that write their essays and term papers like the night before it's due. how is that challenging? most people drop out of engineering because they're cowards that don't want to face problems and confront them. how are we going to be competitive in this economy? 10 years from now when these students with no skills can't find a job, are they gonna cry for welfare? i might be looking at the darkside of things but the american perception of short term interest is really going to harm us in the long run.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
this is a disturbing trend though. americans don't give a crap about creativity anymore, especially our generation (and perhaps the next generation). people want big bucks and that's all they care for. well yeah, im in engineering for big bucks but i also believe in making the world a better place and i like building things. who gives a flying fvck about lawyers? I mean, sure there are some nice ones but most are just greedy fvcks that leech out of our society along with dumba$$es that sue for anything.

MESA majors are the only majors that require significant effort. most other majors, although some can be tough, do not require as much effort as engineering does. i know so many people that write their essays and term papers like the night before it's due. how is that challenging? most people drop out of engineering because they're cowards that don't want to face problems and confront them. how are we going to be competitive in this economy? 10 years from now when these students with no skills can't find a job, are they gonna cry for welfare? i might be looking at the darkside of things but the american perception of short term interest is really going to harm us in the long run.

your just upset that Dilbert doesn't get the same level pay as the pointy hair boss.
Or as may CSE major Friend said:
"i may not get paid as much, but you couldn't pay me enough to be a businessman"

which is understandable, it's kind of pointless being the oil that the gears of creation use to churn.

 

[Dissipate]

Well, one good thing that will come out of this is that those who really enjoy CS/CE will still have that as their major. Those who are in it just for the money will quit the major. Better for me because I like CS for reasons other than the money.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
this is a disturbing trend though. americans don't give a crap about creativity anymore, especially our generation (and perhaps the next generation). people want big bucks and that's all they care for. well yeah, im in engineering for big bucks but i also believe in making the world a better place and i like building things. who gives a flying fvck about lawyers? I mean, sure there are some nice ones but most are just greedy fvcks that leech out of our society along with dumba$$es that sue for anything.

MESA majors are the only majors that require significant effort. most other majors, although some can be tough, do not require as much effort as engineering does. i know so many people that write their essays and term papers like the night before it's due. how is that challenging? most people drop out of engineering because they're cowards that don't want to face problems and confront them. how are we going to be competitive in this economy? 10 years from now when these students with no skills can't find a job, are they gonna cry for welfare? i might be looking at the darkside of things but the american perception of short term interest is really going to harm us in the long run.

your just upset that Dilbert doesn't get the same level pay as the pointy hair boss.
Or as may CSE major Friend said:
"i may not get paid as much, but you couldn't pay me enough to be a businessman"

which is understandable, it's kind of pointless being the oil that the gears of creation use to churn.

The pointy-haired boss probably used to be in Dilbert's position. Many engineers migrate to management if they're looking for more money. It's really common.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Originally posted by: lozina
I'm lucky to say I don't have any job security problems, and our IT department is looking like it will expand too (US employees, of course!) But I'm thinking about getting out for other reasons- I'm getting sick of sitting at a desk all day staring at a monitor programming/debugging. I'm willing to take a lower paying job that has fresh air and more physical involvement. Just haven't figured out what yet.

You see there is a basic fault in your logic.Construction industry is one of those things that can't be outsourced to India.
There is the rising illegal immigrant problem though. Illegal immigrants have completely taken over the sheetrock and framing trades in Florida.I have seen them on jobsites all the way up here in New Hampshire.
Add to this more and more people competing for work in a non technical field. It doesn't matter what your field is because you are going to have more people competing for your job worries and very likely pay cuts or wage freezes . When companies receive more and more applications for employment from qualified people they tend to feel very secure about their position as far as labor availability. They feel sometimes so confident to reduce benefits or instill wagecuts.
Even those big Corporate CEOs fel the pressure on their job. Thus their need to keep cutting costs at any expense.
Everyone is affected by this.

 

[Zebo]

How times have changed in this country.

When young people graduated in the sciences/engineering in the 60's companies would pay you 6 months to learn how to work. Full training, full benefits and decent pay. I know literally hundreds of people that were in this tract. In So Cal..from defense industry to pharmacuticals. Remember the famous IBM white shirted frosh?

When young people graduated in the sciences/engineering in the 80's companies would still pay you well, give good beneis but only after you usually did an internship with them for $18-$20 hr over a couple summers. I was in this tract carrying over into 90's.

Today when young people graduate in the sciences/engineering if they don't have signifigant experiance, stand out among 2-300 resumes, good grades, good school they better find an bartender job because they are unemployable. Then If they manage to get "on" they are hired through a temp agency for at least 6mo so firing them (ok "down-sizing") is all that much easier. Naturally all wages and benefits are lower due to compitition.

I've said many times R&D follows manufacturing not the other way around. Now that everything is made overseas all the support, constuction, R&D jobs around those facilities is also growing and employing. Natually you know which party leans tward fair trade instead of selling out america.

 

[Zebo]

Construction industry is one of those things that can't be outsourced to India.
----------------------
Not true. In Utah they recently built either a library or a city hall with 100% foriegn built walls and materials, trucked it all up from mexico and assembled it here. Modular buildings will become the norm is 10 years. They simply slap the walls together which already have electic lines, outlets, insulation, paint, stucco, drywall etc already installed in mexico.

 

[Zebo]

There are some areas which will be more difficult to outsource. But don't expect high pay since the huddled masses are also going to notice a trend and move in that direction in mass.

Health care. Doctors, dentists, nurses, physical therapists and all thier support staff will be need to meet demand of baby boomers. Almost imposible to export because of insurance, travel, and regualtory requirements.

All service jobs. From changing a tire to mowing a yard to planning a wedding to tending bar...TONS but now you have to compete for these low barrier to entry jobs with 9-20 million illegals and amnesty seekers.

Real estate. Sales in any field is always hot but in real estate even more so because people move so much. Don't forget everything that goes with it...title cos, morgage banks and some construction.

Security. When people are broke they commit more crime. PD's, prisons and private security will hire in droves.

Defense. Hard to outsource national defence R&D, manufacturing, or service. Although they are trying. With the perpetual wars we have been in since around panama time and now with increased war on terror I don't expect this to disappear anytiime soon. "computer sciences corporation" is the top defense contractor where CS/CSE grads should be looking.