Computer restarts under heavy load with USB devices attached

[snake5]

This started to happen a few days ago and is successfully detected and prevented but since I'd like to replace some of my hardware, it'd be good to diagnose it further.

The original problem was like this: I just turn the PC on, run a game - and it hangs after some time or even reboots, one time it also gave a BSOD (0x8E,usbstor.sys). So I tried to follow the lead by moving the mouse to a PS/2 port and unplugging the external hard drive. Suddenly, no such problems occur.

History: This PC already has had some problems with USB, namely the front connectors - some of them don't get the data but provide power to devices. This is also why I can't test my devices with another USB hub. I also have some invisible (unknown) devices "plugged in" - they show up in Device Manager but they don't actually exist. If there might be a shortage in the case, I'd like to know that and order a new case with the other components.

So what I'd like is to find out what was at fault and whether I need to prevent it (and how to do it) on my new hardware.

Currently I have an Antec 550W PSU and an Asus M2NMX-SE motherboard. All of my hardware is 2-3 years old, except one of the hard drives which I've had no significant problems with for more than 6 years.

 

[oynaz]

Definitely sounds like a faulty mobo.

 

[snake5]

That's what I think too. But as I'm reading through all kinds of opinions about Asus, it appears to me that they produce good motherboards. And since the case I have seems a bit flaky, I'm just wondering if problems like these could be initially caused by a bad case. Not for the back USB ports but at least for the front ones.

And even though I didn't consider it initially, perhaps electricity has something to do with it - either the +1V that I get on the 12V line or the AC in the flat - a fridge turning off can easily make my speakers emit a crackle (that sound when a sudden voltage change happens). The PSU is supposed to be smart but who knows what actually happens there...

 

[corkyg]

Try putting all your USB devices on a powered hub. That sometimes does wonders.

 

[snake5]

I was under the impression that all of my hubs were powered...

In case I wasn't clear on this, by 'hub' I meant the thing that shows up in Device Manager - the bad ports showed up as attached to one hub, the "good" ones (including those that created these recent problems) are on another. As I still use the bad hubs to recharge my devices, I assume that they're properly powered.

 

[corkyg]

No, I mean a separate external USB hub that has its own power brick. They commonly come with 4 or 7 ports.

Example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182212

 

[C1]

re: "the bad ports showed up as attached to one hub"

In Device Manager, try and disable the hub that shows bad ports.

 

[Bubbaleone]

This started to happen a few days ago and is successfully detected and prevented but since I'd like to replace some of my hardware, it'd be good to diagnose it further.

The original problem was like this: I just turn the PC on, run a game - and it hangs after some time or even reboots, one time it also gave a BSOD (0x8E,usbstor.sys). So I tried to follow the lead by moving the mouse to a PS/2 port and unplugging the external hard drive. Suddenly, no such problems occur.

History: This PC already has had some problems with USB, namely the front connectors - some of them don't get the data but provide power to devices. This is also why I can't test my devices with another USB hub. I also have some invisible (unknown) devices "plugged in" - they show up in Device Manager but they don't actually exist. If there might be a shortage in the case, I'd like to know that and order a new case with the other components.

So what I'd like is to find out what was at fault and whether I need to prevent it (and how to do it) on my new hardware.

Currently I have an Antec 550W PSU and an Asus M2NMX-SE motherboard. All of my hardware is 2-3 years old, except one of the hard drives which I've had no significant problems with for more than 6 years.

Although USB ports can wear out it's more often dirt and corrosion in the port and connector, that's built up over time, causing a bad connection with your USB devices. I'd suggest that before assuming you have bad physical USB connectors you clean all the accumulated crud out of both the front and rear ports, as well as your cable end connectors, by thoroughly spraying with CRC QD® Electronic Cleaner; it's inexpensive, and readily available. Once all ports and connectors are clean, eliminate the corrupt USB drivers, controllers, hubs.

Use a PS/2 mouse for this because you're going to uninstall all the USB devices under the Universal Serial Bus Controllers icon in Device Manager. Disconnect all USB devices before you begin, and ignore any warnings to reboot the computer until you've uninstalled every USB device listed. When you've finished uninstalling, reboot the computer and Windows will automatically detect and install fresh USB drivers, controllers, and hubs.

Now that you've eliminated dirt and corrupt USB drivers you can test whether you actually have faulty USB ports. Connecting a USB device to one port at a time, to see if the device functions properly, will identify any bad ports. If you have bad ports but you need reliable USB connectivity, follow corkyg's advice and connect a powered USB hub to one of the good ports.

 

[snake5]

Tried a few things, including using a screwdriver to scratch the dirt/corrosion (if there was any) out of the port and blowing the dust out. Figured that it should do the same effect, since I'm lazy and slightly unconvinced about the possibility of dirt and corrosion. Then I reinstalled one of the hubs after I inserted an MP3 player.

The cleaning part didn't seem to have any effect and I didn't notice any kind of dust, dirt or corrosion being in there or coming out of there.

The interesting part was the reinstallation of USB hubs in the sense that they were slow to accept changes for some reason. As I said, I plugged in an MP3 player and reinstalled all the drivers in the appropriate hub. The device was functional, as the drive appeared in the list and was accessible. One of the unknown devices disappeared from the list after this.

After all that I tried to remove the device by using "safe removal" - it was still detected after removal (which is the reason for my original theory of something having connected the pins somewhere inside the case). As I'm about to start the PC again in the evening, I think the unknown device will be back in there again.

Now here's an update on the device setup:
Both unknown devices are on hub #2, however hub #2 doesn't appear to be used in any other place than the first port in front. The second port in front, which is also out of order, is linked to hub #1, as are all of the ports in the back. Both of the front ports were cleaned.

P.S. I did connect the front ports myself so there's a small possibility that I've done it wrong. I think the ports were working for some time with the new motherboard though.

Also, a powered hub doesn't seem to be necessary since I don't have problem with poorly functioning devices - the devices that don't exist are the first on my list of problems.

---
I'll try disconnecting the front ports completely and checking if there's any of the unknown devices left.

 

[corkyg]

... Also, a powered hub doesn't seem to be necessary since I don't have problem with poorly functioning devices - the devices that don't exist are the first on my list of problems...

Your basic description suggests that the full load of devices causes your system to restart. That suggests a possible power problem, IOW, the devices are drawing more than your system is comfortable with.; A powered external hub relieves that chore from your PSU and mobo - it takes care of the power requirements externally.

 

[snake5]

I've had more devices plugged in and working before (external HDD + mouse + phone), I don't think there could be power problems of any kind. In comparison to the powerful graphics card that I have (which even has two power sources - the PCI-E x16 port and the power port), the USB devices should take practically no power.

In either case, I'll see what happens when I upgrade my PC. I don't care about the motherboard but if the PSU is bad, I'll see it quickly enough. A powered hub for daily use isn't really an option because of the setup I have here (too few power outlets, too little space on my desk).

 

[snake5]

I've disconnected the front USB ports from the motherboard. The unknown devices did not disappear but some kind of automatic device detection and reinstall did occur (and failed). This is still consistent with one of the original theories where the motherboard is damaged and the case is broken too (and it most probably caused motherboard damage). Seeing as I now have no devices attached to any USB ports, there can be nothing affecting the motherboard but the motherboard itself.

Anything to add or does the theory make sense?

 

[Bubbaleone]

Forgive me, I'm confused whether you actually uninstalled all the USB devices in Device Manager, rebooted and let Windows redetect and install fresh USB drivers, controllers and hubs. If the problem was software the ghost device/s would be gone after uninstalling and rebooting. So if you did uninstall/reinstall all USB software and you still have unknown devices, then I agree with you that physical damage is the likely culprit.

 

[snake5]

Yes, I did uninstall everything and restart. And the problem appears on both Windows 7 and Windows XP.