Computer refresh rate with Plasma TV over 60?

[Unoid]

Reading another thread of someone saying to use a plasma tv if you want no input lag, no screen tearing, and 600hz or some crap...

When you plug in different newer plasma tv's under your screen setup, is your GPU even able to output over 60fps(60hz setting)?

Do you have the option to set 120hz? 200hz? Pixel clock patch and custom resolution for higher refresh?

Otherwise you are running 60hz 60fps and no real benefit besides maybe less input lag.

 

[Unoid]

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-pc-to-tv/

Also has experience forcing HDTVs, including plasma to clock higher.
This is NOT Native.

 

[corkyg]

Plasmas don't suffer from motion blur like LCDs do, so they don't need higher refresh rates. They don't "refresh." Higher refresh rates are largely a marketing gimmick.

 

[Unoid]

Plasmas don't suffer from motion blur like LCDs do, so they don't need higher refresh rates. They don't "refresh." Higher refresh rates are largely a marketing gimmick.

Does the computer/drivers recognize that it can display over 60 frames then? Do you understand my question? If I go into the display settings, can I select 100hz, 120hz? 600hz?

Or would one be stuck at 60 frame updates a second.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Plasmas don't suffer from motion blur like LCDs do.

This is usually true, but there are actually exceptions. The brand new LightBoost strobe-backlight LCD's have less motion blur than plasma (during framerate=Hz motion). On those, fast pans are as perfectly sharp as fast pans on CRT.

Most of the motion blur is caused by the sample-and-hold effect. Regarding the LightBoost strobe backlight that eliminate motion blur, the backlight is turned off while waiting for pixel transitions (unseen by human eyes), and the backlight is strobed only on fully-refreshed LCD frames (seen by human eyes). The strobes can be shorter than pixel transitions, breaking the pixel transition speed barrier. In addition, it eliminates the sample-and-hold effect. (high speed video proof, testimonials, media coverage)

[Display-science]

Adding interesting information for other readers; not addressed to anyone in particular:

1000fps high speed YouTube videos of displays refreshing:
CRT's refresh like this: high speed video of CRT
Older LCD's refresh like this: high speed video of LCD
LightBoost refresh like this: high speed video of LightBoost

Scientific articles say that motion blur is dictated by the length of time a refresh is displayed on the screen, so adding black periods between refreshes is another way to shorten a refresh, than increasing the Hz. (That's why plasma has and CRT less motion blur than LCD -- the flicker speeds up the response visible to the human eye) Unfortunately, LCD is popular, so for those, increasing Hz is not a gimmick for these specific displays -- it's often the only way to reduce motion blur without adding flicker (some people don't like flicker, while others don't mind) -- the problem is interpolating frames is often the gimmick -- while using true 120Hz from a computer, gives you native 120 frames per second from a computer -- which eliminates the gimmick.

A recent blind test showed that 83% of gamers clearly preferred & identified the 120Hz display, in a 60Hz-vs-120Hz test. (true 60Hz versus true 120Hz -- not the interpolated gimmicks)

Another interesting article is: Why Do Some OLED's Have Motion Blur?. OLED's have faster pixel response than plasmas, but most OLED's don't flicker. This illustrates the other big source of motion blur: The sample-and-hold effect. Even 0ms instant-pixel-response displays can have motion blur. This is because frames continuously shine for the whole refresh (sample-and-hold). Your eyes track moving objects. Your eyes are in a different position at the beginning of a refresh than at the end of the refresh (of the same frame). That causes the individual static frames to be blurred across your retinas. The only way to solve sample-and-hold motion blur is via adding black periods between refreshes (flicker), and/or via increasing Hz -- both methods shortens the individual frames, preventing the frames from being motion-blurred while you track eyes on panning scenes and moving objects.

[/Display-science]

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Does the computer/drivers recognize that it can display over 60 frames then? Do you understand my question? If I go into the display settings, can I select 100hz, 120hz? 600hz?

A few HDTV's can support 120Hz. But not all of them can.

The HOWTO (that you linked to -- Use 120Hz television as monitor) for using a HDTV as a true native 120Hz computer monitor, works on several models of televisions, but not all of them. Mainly if the TV is manufactured in the last two years. You need to essentially trick the drivers into overriding the 60Hz limit, and outputting 120Hz anyway, and sometimes it works. 120Hz has a bigger effect on sample-and-hold displays such as LCD's than with flicker displays such as CRT/plasma. Most drivers will refuse to output 120Hz to a display that does not officially support 120Hz, so you are essentially overclocking the display, and/or unlocking an undocumented existing mode in the TV. So you have to use the instructions such as EVGA Pixel OC utility, the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility, or EDID overrides, etc, to "force" the 120Hz to be sent from your computer anyway.

Technically, this can void the warranty, since this is an unofficial manoevere, like overclocking. There are definite benefits if you dislike LCD motion blur, but it is not for the faint of heart. In other words, if you don't like opening up computers or doing things like overclocking, then this technique is probably not for you. Even though this is often simpler than many of the things that extreme computer enthusiasts do!

 

[Unoid]

Thanks Mark. Love your work!

I currently have a 1440p IPS I'm overclocking to 90-110hz.

I was interested in knowing if a Plasma (from other thread rumors) would be a superior gaming display.

Thanks for the clarification!

Wish I had a 30-32" Native 120Hz Lightboost 1440/1600p IPS display

 

[Mark Rejhon]

I was interested in knowing if a Plasma (from other thread rumors) would be a superior gaming display.

It definitely can be, but it depends on the metric.

There's some rough generalities:
Blacks? -- Plasmas easily win (usually*). (Asterik = rare exception = Try comparing a $5000 Elite(tm) LCD with local dimming, versus a cheap plasma that can't do good blacks)
Color quality? -- Plasmas easily win (usually*).
Input lag? -- Plasmas usually has more input lag than some of faster LCD TV's.
Digital noise during near-distance gameplay? -- LCD can win due to plasma dithering effects (noise in dark colors, especially during dungeon games). Some people are sensitive to this.
Motion blur? -- Plasmas almost always has less motion blur than most LCD's, but the clearest motion LCD's (LightBoost) beat the clearest motion plasmas (Kuro's and Panasonic "2500Hz" FFD). (Yes, LightBoost beats Kuro's and "2500Hz" FFD's in fast-motion clarity)
Flicker? -- If you hate flicker, LCD wins (non-strobed, PWM-free LCD's)

All LCD's that has the LightBoost feature, are all TN panels, which typically aren't as good looking as IPS LCD panels. In addition LightBoost can degrade color quality. So, plasmas often handidly beat that in color quality, but plasma motion clarity can't hold a candle to the lack of motion blur of LightBoost (especially LightBoost=10%). The world is full of display compromises, but it is impressive that, recently, certain LCD's (refresh-synchronized strobe backlight driven) outperformed the best plasma, in motion resolution / CRT-like clarity.

For the 42" and up sizes, most of the time, plasma is better dollar-for-dollar -- it often takes a high-end $3000+ LCD HDTV (with fancy local dimming and scanning backlight) to beat a cheap $500 plasma in certain metrics. Also some people like the LCD look (looks far more natural), while other people like the plasma look (looks far more natural). Fortunately, LightBoost monitors are now available beginning at about $250, and plasmas are not available in desktop monitor sizes.

 

[corkyg]

One other metric - plasmas in general have a shorter MTBF than LCDs.