Computer for Photoshop and digital imaging.

[lupin]

Right now we're using an Athlon running at 2300MHz, overclocked. I think it was the Barton model, can't remember exactly. Memory is value Kingston, only 512 MB. Motherboard is Via KT266 or something like that. We're using this system 100% for Photoshop, and it's a pretty SLOW machine on WinXP. (We only spent $200 to upgrade to that spec, from the last Pentium 3 configuration) yeah we probably should add more memory.

I was talking to an AMD distributor, and he's telling how great the Opteron is, and that he's sold dual opteron systems to photographers and it's running crazy fast, etc etc.

Obviously even not knowing anything about it, the Opteron does sound like a fast processor. But is there a significant difference to the regular Athlons?

And if I want to build a kickass digital imaging system today, which route should I take? And how much it will cost me? Is something like dual opteron an overkill?
Currently I'm looking at a Mac G5 system, which can get pretty expensive (~$5000?), after you add 2GB of ram and Dual Processor.

I'm thinking a minimum of 1GB ram. 2GB if budget allows.

 

[imported_Kensai]

A dual Opteron system will squish a regular Athlon in anything that utilizes multiple threads. And of course, they're crazy fast.

 

[helo7050]

G5's MAcs are the best one for graphic design software. I always though on the PC side the P4's where best since the Cache size and other things. I would look at the Extreme Editions, or the 2MB models..

 

[lupin]

Does Photoshop fall under "anything that utilizes multiple threads"?

 

[lupin]

The G5s have 1MB L2 I believe, and I always like the way Mac OS handles color management. However, a G5 does get very expensive, very quick. A Single processor G5 wouldn't be that much faster from my current 2300Mhz Athlon I believe.

 

[imported_Kensai]

I really don't know, as I have never used Photoshop.

 

[Matthias99]

What are you "slow" at? With only 512MB of RAM, you could easily be hitting the swapfile during complex filtering/scaling operations, especially if you use large (100+MB) files. I'd look at going up to 1-2GB of RAM before you invest in a whole new computer.

Check your Peak Commit Charge in Task Manager. If it's over 512MB, or you notice disk thrashing while doing whatever you feel is "slow", you need more RAM, not a faster CPU. An AXP Barton at 2.3Ghz is pretty fast already (not as fast as dual Opterons at 2.4+Ghz, but certainly no slouch).

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
you need more RAM, not a faster CPU.

Truth.

IMHO 2GB is a minimum for any Photoshop machine dealing with large files.

 

[mrrisotto]

If you keen to buying a prebuilt system... I just got a Dell PowerEdge SC1420 and once I popped an X700 Pro video card in it, its wicked fast. I run Maya, 3dsmax, Photoshop, SolidWorks, as well as Doom 3 and HL2 - this machine hasn't budged for anything! Comming from a single processor (1.8) G5, I'm liking this Dell. I bought the Dell for $650 shipped which included a 2.8ghz Xeon CPU (Nocona, 800mhz FSB), 1gb RAM (be sure to get in on a free RAM upgrade deal because this stuff is expensive!), and an 80gb SATA hard drive. Spent another $200 on the X700... $850 into it and I have a more then capable machine to play around with.

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: helo7050
G5's MAcs are the best one for graphic design software. I always though on the PC side the P4's where best since the Cache size and other things. I would look at the Extreme Editions, or the 2MB models..

Opterons severely pwn G5s and in photoshop...

I could build you a Dual Opteron for a lot less than $5000.

 

[Vegito]

what about excel applications ? I have large excels, some of them 200x1000 colxrows

excel is single thread and i'm looking for dual opt system...

I get a lot of out of resource with a dual xeon 3.2 w/ 2gb ram..

i'm looking towards dual opt w/ dual core later on as an option.. and also xp 64 if ms comes out with excel 64 bit..

 

[ribbon13]

$200 - PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 AG
$430 - Tyan Thunder K8WE S2895A2NRF
2x$233 - AMD Opteron 244 Retail
There's the core...

512mb $94 Corsair CM72SD512RLP-3200
1024mb $203 Corsair CM72SD1024RLP-3200

You want want just 2GB of ram, get four of the 512MB sticks. You could get two of the 1GB sticks on CPU0, and two of the 512MB sticks on CPU1 for 3GBs, or two of the 1GB sticks on each cpu for 4GB

For a chassis, I'd suggest a ($227) Lian-Li PC-V2000B or a ($130) Enlight EN-8950B00.

edit: consolidation.

 

[ribbon13]

edit: consolidation

 

[pinhead]

I had photoshop running on an old tyan dual board with dual PII 450's and it was pretty quick because photoshop CAN utilize dual processors

 

[lupin]

ribbon, is there a particular reason that you recommend that specific flavor opteron, or is anything opteron pretty much good?

Also, what about the dual core stuff? Will they be here soon, and should I wait for them? Theoratically 1xdual core = 2x single core? That means 2xdual core = fast?

 

[ribbon13]

What do you mean by 'flavor'? Single Opteron boards all lack PCI-X and PCIe. Quad Opterons are prohibitively expensive. The K8WE is the ultimate workstation board out right now.

The K8WE uses the nForce Professional 2200 and 2050, so if any Opteron 2xx board out supports it the K8WE will.

 

[Brian23]

There's no specific reason to use the 244. Ribbon selected it mostly on price I think. If you've got a lot of money, by all means go for faster opterons, but dual 244s should work nicely.

 

[Ken90630]

Originally posted by: lupin
Does Photoshop fall under "anything that utilizes multiple threads"?

Hi, Lupin,

Sort of. Photoshop CS (the latest version, I think) has some optimizations built in for Intel Hyper-Threaded CPUs. According to Intel, these optimizations allow a certain number of filters to perform faster. There's a bar graph on Intel's site somewhere comparing filter speeds in CS with and without Hyper-Threaded chips (at least there was about a year ago). It doesn't apply to all of Photoshop's filters though-- only some of them. I asked an Intel rep on the phone awhile back if he could tell me which ones. He said he didn't know.

Whether or not the SMP optimizations for filters in Photoshop CS work the same way with Apple dual-processor rigs like the G5, or with dual Opterons, I'm not sure. I would think Adobe would have tweaked the software a bit to allow Apple or AMD Opteron users the same benefits that Intel HT users enjoy, but I simply don't know the answer. You might cruise Adobe's Web site a bit or give them a quick call if you really wanna know.

I like G5s too, but like you say, they're pretty pricey. And Windows XP is so much better than the older versions of Windows that the once-valid performance gap between Windows machines and Macs has closed considerably. Whether or not Apple is still better in graphics applications anymore, I don't know. I went to an Adobe seminar last summer, and their two reps were using Mac PowerBooks for their demonstrations and touting OSX Panther every chance they got. And whenever someone in the crowd mentioned the word "Windows," there was a nearly-unanimous groan. :laugh: I thought it was a little snobby, but whatever. Mac users seem to have enduring loyalty, and Adobe's preference was, last summer anyway, clearly for Macs.

I personally like the feel and the "user interface" of Mac OSX a lot better than Windows, but that's another topic entirely (and also just my personal preference).

 

[magomago]

dude for one get off the KT266. even getting a kt266a would be huge leap over kt266....go back and notice hows the as ran faster. See if you can swap in a kt600 or a nforce2. And then load up the system with 2 gigs of memory. you'll probably notice things moving faster

though honestly i'm suprised you got a barton to hit 2.3Ghz on a freaking kt266

 

[bob4432]

like others have stated, get a nf2 m/b for ~$60 and 2GB of ram and then see if you need to spend thousands of $$$ for a new machine. sure, dual anything new is crazy fast, but also crazy expensive

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: Ken90630

Originally posted by: lupin
Does Photoshop fall under "anything that utilizes multiple threads"?

Hi, Lupin,

Whether or not the SMP optimizations for filters in Photoshop CS work the same way with Apple dual-processor rigs like the G5, or with dual Opterons, I'm not sure. I would think Adobe would have tweaked the software a bit to allow Apple or AMD Opteron users the same benefits that Intel HT users enjoy, but I simply don't know the answer. You might cruise Adobe's Web site a bit or give them a quick call if you really wanna know.

WTF??? Photoshop has been an SMP friendly application for a long long time, long before HyperThreading even existed.


I chose the Opteron 244 because it's the best deal right now.

 

[akugami]

Cheap quick solution. Get more RAM.

More expensive but good solution. Get what ribbon13 suggested as it will be a kick ass graphics workstation.

Long term looking ahead at the future solution. Get more RAM now. Wait half a year or so for the dual core Opterons and get a dual processor board. This should be a monster of a workstation since it will be dual core and dual proc. Put 4GB of RAM on it and you're set for years. This is the most expensive solution but depending on how you're budgeting things it might be the best overall solution.

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: mrrisotto
If you keen to buying a prebuilt system... I just got a Dell PowerEdge SC1420 and once I popped an X700 Pro video card in it, its wicked fast. I run Maya, 3dsmax, Photoshop, SolidWorks, as well as Doom 3 and HL2 - this machine hasn't budged for anything! Comming from a single processor (1.8) G5, I'm liking this Dell. I bought the Dell for $650 shipped which included a 2.8ghz Xeon CPU (Nocona, 800mhz FSB), 1gb RAM (be sure to get in on a free RAM upgrade deal because this stuff is expensive!), and an 80gb SATA hard drive. Spent another $200 on the X700... $850 into it and I have a more then capable machine to play around with.

Keep in mind that the Dell SC series servers come with a long x8 PCIe slot, which has to be modded a bit to get a x16 graphics card to fit, which isn't everyone's cup of tea.

 

[jose]

Doesn't any Opteron below the 246's run memory at 333hmz and the 246's and above run ram at 400mhz ?

Regards,
Jose

 

[lupin]

ribbon13:
what I mean by flavor is, I don't know what different speed rating and L2 size AMD is offering the Opterons at. And which one should I get? Looking at your calculations, if I don't plan on going RAID, then I'd only need about $430+466+406= ~$1500 for a dual Opteron 244, Tyan K8WE, and 2GB corsairs to get this pretty wicked system? Do I need a new case, or a power supply?

magomago:
I might've made a mistake, and the motherboard is probably via KT600, not KT266. I don't keep that close check over hardware anymore these days. Yes, the KT266 does sound a little old. I probably am using the KT600. Is the Nforce2 board still a worthwile upgrade over the KT600?

I don't even know for sure if my athlon is a Barton. How bad is that? The only thing I know of is it's running @ 2300MHz, 200FSB.

I think the KT motherboard only have two memory slots. So if I want to upgrade to say 2GB, then I'll have to discard this 512MB. But what type of memory should I get? PC3200? Anything faster? Will this memory be usable if I upgrade to dual opterons later, or even dual core opterons?