Components Upgrade Advice

[Altamira]

Hi,

Current rig is:
CPU - Intel i5 2500 3.30 GHz Sandy Bridge
GPU - MSI GTX_TI 560 Twin Frozr II/OC 1GB
Motherboard - Gigabyte PH67-UD3-B3
Dedicated Sound Card - None
RAM - GSkill Sniper 4x4 (8 Gb) DDR3 1333 PC3 10666
PSU - Corsair HX520W Modular
Monitor - DELL Ultrasharp U2311H (23´´) Full HD 1920x1080 (By the way amazing monitor for the price!)
OS and system type - Microsoft Windows 7 x64

What uses/Tasks i do most commonly on the pc:
- Im both a cinephile and audiophile
- Ocasionaly i do some graphic/vector design in Adobe Illustrator and AutoCad
- Im a gamer, not full time (I mean not in a regular/daily basis) but i really apreciate good graphics when i play, translating i love games like The Witcher Wild Hunt (pretty demanding graphically),etc...

What do you think i should change in the current rig to keep up with recent/future games?
I want good graphics in 1080p.

Right now im thinking changing only the GPU. Sometimes i also notice some stuttering/slow processing even in Adobe illustrator when working with filters and a bit more demanding tasks, could it be GPU, CPU or RAM?

I would like to maintain the upgrade i intend to do at least for 3-5 years.

Thank you

 

[richaron]

Right now im thinking changing only the GPU. Sometimes i also notice some stuttering/slow processing even in Adobe illustrator when working with filters and a bit more demanding tasks, could it be GPU, CPU or RAM?

It's best if the user (i.e. you) learn to monitor the computer to see where the bottlenecks are. Find software to monitor CPU/CPU usage % and temps, RAM usage, and/or even just watch the HDD LED on your case.

You've not mentioned a budget, if money was no object you could just replace the whole thing now. Or if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket you could spend it on something else also, like audio gear. You do have a SSD?

Within 3-5 years you'll most likely need a new CPU for gaming, they're gradually needing more threads. But without knowing exact usage it's hard to know what would be best... your current one may hold up fine until that game tanks on it. A new CPU may need a new motherboard, which may also affect RAM choice. And I'd also suggest more RAM than 8GB for more than simple editing & future games.

If I was in your position I'd get a new GPU for sure, a modern mid-range card should be good for FHD @ 60Hz for a few years. Then I'd monitor RAM & CPU usage to move forwards from there.

 

[Altamira]

Hi Richaron,

Yep i´ve made a test using MooO system monitor and this is what i´ve found running for example The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt
Low Settings
CPU - Average 30% usage; Average 90ºC temp (no problem)
GPU - Average 99% usage; Average 65ºC temp (Bottleneck!?)
HDD - Average 5% busy; Average 37ºC temp (no problem)
Mem - Mem free average 900Mb (of 8Gb) (no problem)
Average FPS - 25

Medium Settings (well playable...)
CPU - Average 35% usage; Average 94ºC temp (no problem)
GPU - Average 99% usage; Average 68ºC temp (Bottleneck!?)
HDD - Average 5% busy; Average 38ºC temp (no problem)
Mem - Mem free average 880Mb (of 8Gb) (on the limit!)
Average FPS - 21

High Settings (Here things start to get bottlenecked) (Forget it)
CPU - Average 35% usage; Average Max 50% usage; Average 86ºC temp (no problem)
GPU - Average 99% usage; Average 60ºC temp (Bottleneck!?) Serious stuttering
HDD - Average 5% busy with peeks of 50% and HDD seek peeks; Average 38ºC temp (ocasional Bottleneck)
Mem - Mem free average 500Mb (of 8Gb) (Bottleneck!?)
Average FPS - 9

Ultra Settings (Forget it)
CPU - Average 20% usage; Average 75ºC temp (no problem)
GPU - Average 99% usage; Average 60ºC temp (Bottleneck!?)
HDD - Goes crazy with peeks both HDD busy and seek
Mem - Mem free average 1.01Gb (of 8Gb) (?)
Average FPS - 4

My budget is fairly tight, i would like to go step by step or just invest in whats really bottlenecking my system right now.
It seems HDD presents some bottlenecks when working with mutliple applications or trying to access many information at a time.
Dont see many problems from CPU, but GPU definitly is a problem. Also RAM seems to be an issue.
I dont have SSD.
What you think?

 

[richaron]

Well I'm no expert & a lot of people here are more knowledgeable on specific products and prices. I'm sure they'll help. From what you've shown a new GPU would help for sure. And I think a SSD is needed for general responsiveness in any modern system, though it will only help loading times in games (unless you're paging).

You're also running out of RAM and paging (seen by HDD usage) at higher settings and this will get worse as time goes by (newer games will need more resources in general). This is likely happening when editing more complex stuff also. But:
-a new GPU will have more onboard VRAM => less strain on system RAM => less need for pagefile
-a SSD will handle paging MUCH better than a HDD
...so I'd still put more RAM in the "maybe" pile for now.

I would go for a GPU right now. A SSD ASAP (or now). And a new CPU/RAM/Motherboard later when you really need it. Others may do differently though.

 

[Altamira]

Thank you Richaron. Yep agreed. GPU urgent!
About SSD i always had some doubts about it. I know they are a bit expensive, but are they reliable in the long term compared to HDD? In terms of failure, longevity,...?
Does it make any sense for example an hybrid SSD/HDD? or just a solo SSD? Any recomendation for an SSD right now? SATA or PCIe?
Maybe i can buy an SSD just to storage and run more demanding applications?
About RAM well today its not easy to find GSkill SNiper DDR3 1333, but i may think adding one more stick of 4gb of that (12Gb total)? or wait a see the behaviour of a new GPU.
By the way should the GTX 1060 6Gb be a good option?

 

[richaron]

Yeah I had my doubts when flash memory first started getting big ~15 years ago

Reliability and longevity of SSDs is for all intents and purposes an non-issue. Even cheap lower-mid capacity drives these days can saturate SATA and make a world of difference vs mechanical drives.. like a cheap 240/256GB drive, big enough for OS and commonly used programs, should be ~$100 or less and blow away a HDD. But I'm not in the US or up to date on specials so I can't supply suggestions.

I wouldn't bother with another stick of RAM until you find you need it (by monitoring) or unless it's dirt cheap. Your system is DDR3 RAM and new ones are DDR4. So again, once you need a new CPU you may also need a new motherboard and different RAM.

And yes, 1060/480 (6/8GB) performance should be the sweet spot for FHD @ 60Hz for the next few years. You could make do with higher or lower performance depending on how you play with settings.

Hope I've helped a little, good luck.

 

[Altamira]

Yep maybe wait for the Kaby Lake or Cannonlake from intel (2017/2018!?) and then upgrade with a new motherboard, RAM and CPU.
So no big point in expending much for the PCIe SSD vs SATA?
Thats it great help!
SSD and GPU, here we go...
Ho by the way i dont know if you pay much attention to sound quality but any brand/kit i should think about/look at to have a nice sound station (both for movies and audio/music)?
Right now i have my old school but marvelous Cambridge Soundworks 5.1 (no longer produced i believe) for about 16 years i believe! hahahaha

 

[UsandThem]

Ho by the way i dont know if you pay much attention to sound quality but any brand/kit i should think about/look at to have a nice sound station (both for movies and audio/music)?
Right now i have my old school but marvelous Cambridge Soundworks 5.1 (no longer produced i believe) for about 16 years i believe! hahahaha

You really need to listen to the speakers to see what sounds good to YOU. What sounds good to one person, will sound horrible to the next.

I used the Logitech Z-2300 system for many, many years (around 10 years, I believe). And then like everyone else, my control module died. There were some 3rd party replacement ones available, but most reviews said these $60 replacement control modules lasted under a year.

I read a ton of reviews on various 'PC speakers in a box', and even started considering upping my budget dramatically after reading through some posts on audiophile websites like Head-Fi, and getting a pair monitors and a separate sub-woofer. However, since I already have nice headphones, I decided against this.

After reading reviews, it came down to two 'PC speakers in a box'. The Logitech Z623 and the Klipsch Promedia 2.1. Luckily for me, my local Best Buy showed both in stock, so I would have a chance to listen to them. However, once I drove there, the display Z623 tweeters were crushed/broken, and the Klipsch Promedia while working, sounded absolutely horrible. Like $15 no-name speakers bad. I had listened to the Klipsch speakers that came before these particular Promedias before back in the early 2000's, so I honestly think they had it hooked up incorrectly. There is just no way a set that is so well reviewed across multiple sites could sound that bad. Is it any wonder why Best Buy is losing ground to competitors?

So disappointed in wasting my time driving there, I headed back home empty handed. The next day I received an email from Camel3x on a price alert I had set up there. The Logitech Z623 were on sale at Amazon for $99. I said screw it, ordered them, and they are pretty good speakers. I still think the Z-2300 set I used before were a little better, but I am happy with the Z623 for music/movie watching/gaming for $100. They are definitely "warm" speakers (emphasize mids and bass over highs) However, when I want my music to sound 'perfect' or more balanced, I use my headphones.

 

[Altamira]

Well i really pay attention to sound quality, always had a good hear for detail. But the fact is im a bit frugal in expending to much. These 16 years old Cambridge soundworks are pretty good, but they are a bit beaten up by time, i mean sometimes i have to tap several times in the volume control to catch a good sound, hehehehe, 2 of the 4 speakers are not working 100% But believe me this is a workhorse and good sound quality.
this website has pretty good reviews for audiophiles also: http://www.whathifi.com/best-buys/hi-fi/best-desktop-speakers
Those Wharfedale DS-1 seem pretty nice, but im not being able to find them in EUrope. Also Audio Pro Addon T8 seem good but more expensive, i think they are not made in the USA and not much available here in Europe.

 

[corkyg]

Not finding Wharfedales in Europe? That is strange - they are made in UK. Maybe start here: http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/dealers.php

 

[Altamira]

ups indeed, Thanks!

 

[UsandThem]

Yeah, I agree.

While I am not an "audiophile", which I always take to mean a snob (many audio enthusiasts are fine, but there are some really arrogant people in that segment), I appreciate good sound.

I have a surround sound system on my main TV, and I like above average headphones (I am not a person who would ever pay $1k+ for them though), for my computer speakers I just want it to sound basically 'good enough'. I have seen some people here who do everything at their computer, and have an impressive sound system set-up there. It just comes down to what your uses/needs are. In games and most of the music I play while sitting at my PC, I like the booms and the warm mids. When the day is wrapping up, I usually will sit down in my recliner, pick out a album I haven't listened to in a while, and throw on my headphones. They are open-backed ones that provide a tremendous sound-stage, and are really just amazing to listen to for the 45 minutes it takes to reach the end of the album.

 

[Altamira]

yep audiophile really sounds snob hehehe. Is it possible to find something similar to these Cambridge Soundworks today?

 

[UsandThem]

yep audiophile really sounds snob hehehe. Is it possible to find something similar to these Cambridge Soundworks today?

It will probably be tough. The 'PC audio in a box' segment has really stagnated.

Here was the article I originally started with when I began my reseach. Like I mentioned before, I was considering an Audioengine or Mackie set-up, but changed my mind.

Anything is possible depending on what you are willing to spend, but maybe something like #11 on the list is something to look into:

http://heavy.com/tech/2015/08/top-best-cheap-2-1-computer-pc-speakers-subwoofer/

 

[VirtualLarry]

I had a Creative Labs Cambridge Soundworks PC Works 2.1 setup that I got with a DVD multimedia kit, I think. They were actually quite good, for a 2.1 set.

I've also used an Advent Powered Partners set, with a mid and a tweeter. Those were also fairly good.

Had some small Labtec speakers that put out a punch (ok, very little Bass, but they had decent mids too).

I've not been impressed with most "PC Audio Solutions", that were released since 2000, or around there. It seems like the decline in basic speaker quality happened around then. Maybe when everything started to get built in China. Or maybe when Logitech bought out most of the decent competitor speaker makers.

I wouldn't even bother with any audio solution that specifically is labeled "PC" on it anywhere. Get a real home audio setup, and connect that to your PC. Like some Studio Monitors from sweetwater.com or something.

 

[Torn Mind]

GTX 560 is pretty weak gpu by modern standards. That is the first thing that needs replacing.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1661?vs=1596
GTX 960 is about double the power.

 

[Altamira]

Larry i believe i have to agree with you and also usandthem, maybe its best to invest in some audio studio/home theater speakers and connect it to the pc, in the future. Right now and because money is rationalized i will go step by step to whats really bottlenecking. Yep torn mind GTX 560 has got to go...
So between the radeon RX480 8Gb and Geforce GTX 1060 6Gb, whats the real winner? in the long term? or task specific? Im more inclined to the 1060, but i would like your opinion?
About intel Kaby Lake and CannonLake, would it be a good ideia to wait for these to come out (dont know when...) to upgrade CPU, RAM and Motherboard?

 

[UsandThem]

If you don't have to upgrade right now, I'd personally wait 2-3 months for AMD Zen and Kaby Lake.

The performance of Zen is unknown, and Kaby Lake will likely be about 10% faster than Skylake. If anything, it should lower current prices a little.

As for the GTX 1060 vs. RX 480, it depends on the game. Some games run better on each card, but the RX 480 seems to flex it's muscles on DX12 titles. But both are very capable cards at 1080p gaming. In the video card sub-forum, there are threads with 40 pages of people making arguments of which one is 'better'. If you read one of those, you should be able to decide which one is better for your needs.

 

[Altamira]

Well lets see how this keep up, maybe i can stretch a bit and wait for the coffee lake I´ve read they will introduce 6 cores for mainstream(?) if that might be more future proof...
Zen might be a good ideia, will see. It would be my first AMD purchase
Anyway an SSD caught my attention, i think i will go with it, its the PNY CS2211 240Gb. Seems a solid one for my SDD transition. Any opinions/feedback?

PS: I suppose there will not be any price drop in both 480 and 1060 in near future right?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Anyway an SSD caught my attention, i think i will go with it, its the PNY CS2211 240Gb. Seems a solid one for my SDD transition. Any opinions/feedback?

PS: I suppose there will not be any price drop in both 480 and 1060 in near future right?

The 2211 is a solid MLC drive, and a decent performer, if reviews can be trusted. I think you would do fine with that one.

As far as video cards go, I don't think that there are any planned / announced price-cuts, but Black Friday is coming up in the USA, and NVidia has yet to release their 1080ti video card, which may move other video card prices downwards.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

1) Add 8GB of RAM (16GB total)
2) Replace your GPU with a modern equivalent. ($200 price bracket - some 1060 or 480x probably.)
3) If you don't have an SSD, get an SSD.

2 and 3 above will be portable if you decide your CPU is too slow and you do a full platform upgrade.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Well lets see how this keep up, maybe i can stretch a bit and wait for the coffee lake I´ve read they will introduce 6 cores for mainstream(?) if that might be more future proof...
Zen might be a good ideia, will see. It would be my first AMD purchase
Anyway an SSD caught my attention, i think i will go with it, its the PNY CS2211 240Gb. Seems a solid one for my SDD transition. Any opinions/feedback?

Individual opinions/feedback are largely useless - too small a sample size around here. Go to pcpartpicker, find SSDs in the capacity you're looking for, and sort by reviews.

http://pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#t=0&S=220000,400000&f=3&sort=d8&page=1

You will find that the 850 EVO is both current-gen, and very very well regarded. (Number of reviews is almost more important than how good those ratings are, since that tells you how many people are actually buying the things. I'd rather have a 4-star device with 200 reviews than a 5-star device with 10 reviews.)

PS: I suppose there will not be any price drop in both 480 and 1060 in near future right?

Unlikely, notwithstanding black friday sales.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

powered shielded studio monitors from Mackie, KRK, or M-Audio will help ease the painful transition from you beloved Cambridge setup.

As for the compy the weakest links are the GPU and lack of SSD.

 

[Altamira]

In the end i opted for the Samsung 850 Evo 250Gb. Lets see how it goes.
People e need a little help. I will do a clean up to my pc tower/components/fans/Heat Spreader. The gyus at the hardware store recommended me (bought it) a compressed air duster for cleaning. It is ok to use to clean dust from the circuit boards? Do you recommend me any special cloth/brush or other tool to help cleaning?

 

[UsandThem]

It is safe to use, but unplug your computer before using it. Use short bursts as long, sustained sprays will cause condensation (can gets cold). Leave the PC unplugged for at least 15 minutes after finished to allow drying (just in case, usually not needed).