Comparing Intel Core i5 4570S vs 4590S vs 4690S

[o_o]

I am new to this, but I am trying to compare the following Intel Core i5's on Newegg
Intel Core i5 4570S ($204) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116897
Intel Core i5 4590S ($189) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116992
Intel Core i5 4690S ($209) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116990

Questions:
1. I thought the processors with higher numbers have greater performance. If that is true why is 4590S cheaper than 4570S?

2. Also in the specifications tab why does 4590S mention a maximum Turbo frequency whereas the other's do not. Does this mean that they do not have a Turbo freq/mode?

3. Other than the operating frequency is there any other difference in these processors?


Thank you all for your help.
O. O.

 

[Dahak]

the easiest way to compare features is using intel's Ark page, at ark.intel.com
Here is a link to them http://ark.intel.com/compare/80812,80816,75044

For specific answers
1) probably volume or popularity
2) just how the website is design, but based on ark, they all have turbo
3) nope

so out of the three i would go with the 4590s

 

[ShintaiDK]

4570S is replaced by 4590S.

On geishalz for example the 4570S is 160euro and the 4590S 165euro.

Newegg is just a retailer. And their prices are what they set them to themselves.

 

[o_o]

Thank you Dahak & ShintaiDK. I was unaware of Intel's Ark page. It's easy to compare processors on it. I agree with you that 4590s seems to be the best for me.

Thanks again,
O. O.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Any reasons you want the S model and not the regular?

S and T models only make sense if you are cooling limited in a tiny chassis.

 

[Blue_Max]

Any reasons you want the S model and not the regular?

S and T models only make sense if you are cooling limited in a tiny chassis.

Or your electricity costs are SO high you need to save at every opportunity...? :\

 

[ShintaiDK]

Or your electricity costs are SO high you need to save at every opportunity...? :\

But do you save power? The S model is slower and will have to run longer to complete the same task before returning to idle.

 

[know of fence]

But do you save power? The S model is slower and will have to run longer to complete the same task before returning to idle.

Yes, you save power by running at a lower stepping, but it's never worth it to give up high frequency single thread burst performance for it.
But even if you intend to run Handbrake or Prime95 all day under power saving conditions, you could always set a smaller multiplier yourself.

I have to agree: unless there are cooling or PSU concerns, it's straight up wrong to buy the S- or T-versions. Mostly because CPUs use <10 watts of the nominal 65 W or 84 W TDP when idle.

 

[Blue_Max]

But do you save power? The S model is slower and will have to run longer to complete the same task before returning to idle.

A fine theory that doesn't work for gaming, movies, or any other task that involves the factor of a specific time passing, regardless of how fast or slow the processor is.

That level of Starcraft isn't going to complete faster with a better processor.

Of course, your electricity has to be ridiculously expensive for that to be the sole deciding factor! Cooling is simply the other side of the same coin.

 

[RussianSensation]

I'd rather get the i5 4690K. This way you have the option to underclock for power savings and overclock for performance. The S series makes no sense since over time when you need more performance, you can't squeeze much more out of it, forcing you to upgrade much quicker. I think the S processor are more fitting for a mITX system where you have limited cooling space/capacity.

 

[o_o]

Any reasons you want the S model and not the regular?

S and T models only make sense if you are cooling limited in a tiny chassis.

Thank you ShintaiDK and the others You guessed correctly. I don't have a problem with Power, but with cooling. I am also not technically savy enough to do underclocking.

O. O.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Thank you ShintaiDK and the others You guessed correctly. I don't have a problem with Power, but with cooling. I am also not technically savy enough to do underclocking.

O. O.

Super, just making sure you got the right product

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Yes, you save power by running at a lower stepping, but it's never worth it to give up high frequency single thread burst performance for it.
But even if you intend to run Handbrake or Prime95 all day under power saving conditions, you could always set a smaller multiplier yourself.

Just to clarify, the Haswell -S models have the same maximum turbo boost as a regular. So you get the same single thread performance unless the CPU is thermally limited. It's the base frequency and turbo multipliers that varies.

The S/T's doesn't -just- have lower frequency BTW, they also have a not insignificant (~-0.05V for -S ~-0.1V for T's) undervolt already in place.

 

[know of fence]

The S/T's doesn't -just- have lower frequency BTW, they also have a not insignificant (~-0.05V for -S ~-0.1V for T's) undervolt already in place.

Which is different from the regular Speedstep under-volting? Are you saying that these CPUs actually have different VIDs?

If I disabled turbo and set a regular CPU to the same base frequency as the S or T version wouldn't I get the same voltage?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Which is different from the regular Speedstep under-volting? Are you saying that these CPUs actually have different VIDs?

If I disabled turbo and set a regular CPU to the same base frequency as the S or T version wouldn't I get the same voltage?

Each CPU more or less has its own VID. Even 2 4670 for example can have different VIDs.

 

[jeffrey]

I'd rather get the i5 4690K. This way you have the option to underclock for power savings and overclock for performance. The S series makes no sense since over time when you need more performance, you can't squeeze much more out of it, forcing you to upgrade much quicker. I think the S processor are more fitting for a mITX system where you have limited cooling space/capacity.

Anyone care to comment on this?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i5-4670s-4670t_3.html

"That said, an ordinary LGA1150 processor cannot be a full replacement for an energy-efficient one, even if handled properly. Reducing the frequency multiplier manually, of course, helps drop the power consumption to any level you want but you disable the Turbo Boost technology by doing so. There’s no automatic overclocking for a CPU with a reduced frequency multiplier. And it means that downclocking cannot deliver the same performance at single-threaded loads as you can get with S and T series models which boost their clock rate aggressively in the turbo mode."

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Which is different from the regular Speedstep under-volting? Are you saying that these CPUs actually have different VIDs?

Yup. As ShintaiDK wrote its individual for each chip though, so there will be a bit of variance.

Since my sample size consist of exactly one 4790T, I can't say for certain just how much variance there is between chips.

If I disabled turbo and set a regular CPU to the same base frequency as the S or T version wouldn't I get the same voltage?

No, unless you manually offset the voltage to compensate, but there is no guarantee that your regular chip can handle it.

 

[RussianSensation]

Just to clarify, the Haswell -S models have the same maximum turbo boost as a regular. So you get the same single thread performance unless the CPU is thermally limited. It's the base frequency and turbo multipliers that varies.

The S/T's doesn't -just- have lower frequency BTW, they also have a not insignificant (~-0.05V for -S ~-0.1V for T's) undervolt already in place.

That's not correct because the Turbo Boost is not as aggressive as on 4690K. You can see the Xbitlabs article linked above. As I said, the small difference in power usage is not worth it over the regular i5. A decent $20 cooler can easily cope with an 84W TDP processor. If you wants to argue for power savings, you go with T series not S series.

Thank you ShintaiDK and the others You guessed correctly. I don't have a problem with Power, but with cooling. I am also not technically savy enough to do underclocking.

O. O.

Can you specify what problem do you have with cooling? What case do you have? What are the ambient room temperatures?

The question is what is your build anyway? If you are very constrained for budget and power use, maybe get an i3 + SSD. It's a lot better for basic tasks than i5 and 7200 rpm hard drive. You are obviously not playing games in this system either. You need to tell us more details.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

That's not correct because the Turbo Boost is not as aggressive as on 4690K. You can see the Xbitlabs article linked above. As I said, the small difference in power usage is not worth it over the regular i5. A decent $20 cooler can easily cope with an 84W TDP processor.

That is simply not correct. Turboboost is identical for the 4690K, 4690non-K and the 4690S (3.9GHz), there is no difference in single thread performance unless the CPU runs into its hard thermal limit.

http://ark.intel.com/products/80811/Intel-Core-i5-4690K-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/80810/Intel-Core-i5-4690-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/80812/Intel-Core-i5-4690S-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

If you wants to argue for power savings, you go with T series not S series.

I thought this thread was about limiting cooling requirements, not saving power.

 

[know of fence]

Anyone care to comment on this?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i5-4670s-4670t_3.html

"That said, an ordinary LGA1150 processor cannot be a full replacement for an energy-efficient one, even if handled properly. Reducing the frequency multiplier manually, of course, helps drop the power consumption to any level you want but you disable the Turbo Boost technology by doing so. There&#8217;s no automatic overclocking for a CPU with a reduced frequency multiplier. And it means that downclocking cannot deliver the same performance at single-threaded loads as you can get with S and T series models which boost their clock rate aggressively in the turbo mode."

Turbo boost is bit of a misnomer, it's like calling a decline - inverted growth. Turbo boost is there to maintain a certain TDP (65/84 W), it's basically "autonomous thermally controlled down-clocking".
I'm not saying it's a useless technology, but the purpose for which it is built and optimized doesn't exist for desktop PCs, which have cooling and power supply capacities to spare.

The shady side of this is that turbo allows to advertise frequencies that are rarely reached, it also introduces inconsistency in results and benchmarks. As X-bit labs have determined, you are still getting the same silicon (no under-volting), but it's a CPU that is slower on average due to a lower TDP.

What you save in lowered clocks sadly is a drop in the bucket compared to the generally inefficient or performance optimized operation of desktop CPUs, especially when they're idle. Who knows exactly why truly power efficient PC-kits are only available with mobile parts and loud and silly Mac-mini knock-offs, rather than say a mini-ITX motherboard with a DC power socket. There is like a ~35 W wide gap, call it room for improvement, between idle power waste on mobile and desktop.

 

[jeffrey]

All of this nonsense about S models not having a place I just don't agree with.

Case in point:
My computer room gets hot. When I upgrade my old PC to a new one I do not want to generate more heat, or have to lower the temperature of the whole house because of the one room.

Current Processor:
Core 2 Duo E6750 - Max TDP 65W - Using stock Intel cooler

Choice for Replacement:
Core i7-4790S - Max TDP 65W - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

The Core i7-4790S (65W) can turbo up to 4.0GHz for single threaded performance. This is faster than a i7-4770K (84W), which can only go up to 3.9GHz (overclocking would only add heat without water). If you underclocked the i7-4770K to the same base frequency as the i7-4790S it would be even worse. In that case, the S model could turbo up to 4.0GHz while the downclocked i7-4770K would only run at 3.2GHz with Turbo Boost being disabled. The downclocked i7-4770K would be 800MHz slower.

I used a i7-4770K for comparision because everyone knows that chip and a lot of people here probably have one. If I compared it to an i7-4790K the processor would be faster, but then the Max TDP would get even worse moving from 84W to 88W.

If you want to build a quiet PC and generate as little heat as possible the S is at least worthy of consideration.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The shady side of this is that turbo allows to advertise frequencies that are rarely reached, it also introduces inconsistency in results and benchmarks. As X-bit labs have determined, you are still getting the same silicon (no under-volting), but it's a CPU that is slower on average due to a lower TDP.

Well, since I don't know exactly how Xbitlabs came to that conclusion I not going to argue. An improper setting perhaps?

All I -do- know for a certainty is that the 4790T (45W TDP) I've had my hands on had a ~-0.1V undervolt compared to a stock 4770K at the same frequency. It didn't receive more then 0.990V in full-on turbo mode at 4c/3.3GHz. If you ran an AVX2 enabled test, that voltage would climb slightly to ~1.045V. It had absolutely no problem staying at maximum turbo frequency unless you loaded the IGP simultaneously. At which point it'd downclock the CPU to the rated 2.7GHz.

All of this nonsense about S models not having a place I just don't agree with.

Case in point:
My computer room gets hot. When I upgrade my old PC to a new one I do not want to generate more heat, or have to lower the temperature of the whole house because of the one room.

Current Processor:
Core 2 Duo E6750 - Max TDP 65W - Using stock Intel cooler

Choice for Replacement:
Core i7-4790S - Max TDP 65W - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

The Core i7-4790S (65W) can turbo up to 4.0GHz for single threaded performance. This is faster than a i7-4770K (84W), which can only go up to 3.9GHz (overclocking would only add heat without water). If you underclocked the i7-4770K to the same base frequency as the i7-4790S it would be even worse. In that case, the S model could turbo up to 4.0GHz while the downclocked i7-4770K would only run at 3.2GHz with Turbo Boost being disabled. The downclocked i7-4770K would be 800MHz slower.

I used a i7-4770K for comparision because everyone knows that chip and a lot of people here probably have one. If I compared it to an i7-4790K the processor would be faster, but then the Max TDP would get even worse moving from 84W to 88W.

If you want to build a quiet PC and generate as little heat as possible the S is at least worthy of consideration.

So long as you know what you're getting into, there is nothing wrong with having other priorities then pure full-on performance.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Current Processor:
Core 2 Duo E6750 - Max TDP 65W - Using stock Intel cooler

Choice for Replacement:
Core i7-4790S - Max TDP 65W - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

Even a 84W Haswell would use less than your 65W Core 2 due to platform power.