Comparing 3 build levels for gaming.

[AngleSlam]

So basically I want to hear opinions of the 3 builds I'm going to list. I'm mainly interested in bang for buck and the needs it satisfies.
The components I'm listing are just examples, obviously there are going to be better options to choose from that you guys can suggest, but anyhow here goes.

Entry Level Gamer:

CPU: i3 3220- $130
GPU: GTX 660- $220
Mobo: Cheap ATX Mobo- $60
Ram: 4gb ddr3- $30
Hard drive: 500gb hdd $60
SSD: none
Optical drive: Any will do- $20
PSU: 500w- $40
Chassis: Cheap ATX- $40
OS: Windows 7 home (or 8) 64-bit- $90
Total: $650

Mid Level Gamer:

CPU: i5 3570k- $220
GPU: GTX 660ti- $300
Mobo: Z77 mobo- $140
Ram: 8gb ddr3: $50
Hard Drive: 1tb WD black- $100
SSD: none
Optical drive: any- $20
PSU: 750w SLI/CFX- $90
Chassis: Decent ATX- $70
OS: Windows 7 home (or 8) 64 bit- $90
CPU Cooler: Hyper 212 evo- $30
Total: $1110

High End Gamer:

CPU: i7 3770k- $330
GPU: GTX 670- $400
Mobo: Asus Sabertooth- $220
Ram: 16gb ddr3- $100
HDD: 2x1 tb WD black raid0- $200
SSD: SAMSUNG 840- $190
Optical drive: any-$20
PSU: 850w Gold Certified- $150
Chassis: Decent Full Size or ATX- Say NZXT Phantom- $110
OS: Windows 7 (or 8) 64 bit- $90 Or Pro editions- $140
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100- $100
Total: $1940

Power User/Enthusiast-

Not going into detail cause you know, top of the line no compromise stuff..like LGA2011 like i7 3930k, LGA2011 Mobo, full water cooling.
So around $4000 ish?

Summary:
Entry Level- Enough to start playing games at decent settings 1080p, some compromises but good bang for buck. No room for overclocking or dual gpu for future.
Mid Level- Can definitely play games at max settings 1080p may have to take it easy on AA and mods, ok for overclocking and dual cards for future. Limited power for Triple monitors or 1440p. Fairly decent bang for buck.
High Level- Can pump up the AA full blast and go heavy on mods 1080p. Suitable power for triple monitor and 1440p. Not so great on wallet but hey.
Enthusiast/Power User- Best that money can buy and whatever todays technology can permit. So you tell me.

Notable compromises- SSDs are limited to higher range builds because I see it as a luxery rather than a necessity, I mean what can you do today with 128gb of ssd space except for OS and a few games. When 1tb ssds become mainsteam then we'll talk.
Optical drive, of course you can buy expensive ones but it won't increase game performance, it's just so you can install cds. But with a bigger budget you can of course go with blue rays and stuff if you like.

 

[Steltek]

So basically I want to hear opinions of the 3 builds I'm going to list. I'm mainly interested in bang for buck and the needs it satisfies.
The components I'm listing are just examples, obviously there are going to be better options to choose from that you guys can suggest, but anyhow here goes.

Entry Level Gamer:

CPU: i3 3220- $130
GPU: GTX 660- $220
Mobo: Cheap ATX Mobo- $60
Ram: 4gb ddr3- $30
Hard drive: 500gb hdd $60
SSD: none
Optical drive: Any will do- $20
PSU: 500w- $40
Chassis: Cheap ATX- $40
OS: Windows 7 home (or 8) 64-bit- $90
Total: $650

Mid Level Gamer:

CPU: i5 3570k- $220
GPU: GTX 660ti- $300
Mobo: Z77 mobo- $140
Ram: 8gb ddr3: $50
Hard Drive: 1tb WD black- $100
SSD: none
Optical drive: any- $20
PSU: 750w SLI/CFX- $90
Chassis: Decent ATX- $70
OS: Windows 7 home (or 8) 64 bit- $90
CPU Cooler: Hyper 212 evo- $30
Total: $1110

High End Gamer:

CPU: i7 3770k- $330
GPU: GTX 670- $400
Mobo: Asus Sabertooth- $220
Ram: 16gb ddr3- $100
HDD: 2x1 tb WD black raid0- $200
SSD: SAMSUNG 840- $190
Optical drive: any-$20
PSU: 850w Gold Certified- $150
Chassis: Decent Full Size or ATX- Say NZXT Phantom- $110
OS: Windows 7 (or 8) 64 bit- $90 Or Pro editions- $140
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100- $100
Total: $1940

Power User/Enthusiast-

Not going into detail cause you know, top of the line no compromise stuff..like LGA2011 like i7 3930k, LGA2011 Mobo, full water cooling.
So around $4000 ish?

Summary:
Entry Level- Enough to start playing games at decent settings 1080p, some compromises but good bang for buck. No room for overclocking or dual gpu for future.
Mid Level- Can definitely play games at max settings 1080p may have to take it easy on AA and mods, ok for overclocking and dual cards for future. Limited power for Triple monitors or 1440p. Fairly decent bang for buck.
High Level- Can pump up the AA full blast and go heavy on mods 1080p. Suitable power for triple monitor and 1440p. Not so great on wallet but hey.
Enthusiast/Power User- Best that money can buy and whatever todays technology can permit. So you tell me.

Notable compromises- SSDs are limited to higher range builds because I see it as a luxery rather than a necessity, I mean what can you do today with 128gb of ssd space except for OS and a few games. When 1tb ssds become mainsteam then we'll talk.
Optical drive, of course you can buy expensive ones but it won't increase game performance, it's just so you can install cds. But with a bigger budget you can of course go with blue rays and stuff if you like.

Your best bang for the buck would be to alter the mid-level gamer build - the high end build you list has way too much waste. The i5-3570k is presently the best gaming CPU (even better than the 3770k), especially if you overclock. You can pick up a basic overclockable Biostar or ASRock Z77 board + 8GB of free memory at Newegg today for about $120 shipped. Anything more than 8GB for gaming is pretty much a wasted investment. Get a Seagate Barracuda for $30 less than the WD Black - the Blacks are good hard drives, but aren't $30 better than the Barracudas. Drop the power supply back to 500-620 watts with a good, solid brand (i.e. Antec/Corsair/Seasonic/XFX) - you'll still have enough headroom to SLI/crossfire, but you'd be better to go with a single higher end card in the first place (were it me, I'd go with the Gigabyte HD7950 Windforce - it is about $300, current gen card, more than decently fast, and easily overclocked with a good fan setup to keep it cool).

These savings might allow you to be able to add an SSD and keep under your $1100 budget, especially if you play the rebate game.

 

[AngleSlam]

Thanks but I already got a computer similar to the mid ranged spec..
I do happen to use a i5 3570k, but I'm a bit astonished that you would go as far as to say it is better than the i7 3770k. Care to elaborate?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

You are posting in the wrong section first of all. This would be better fitted in the General Hardware section. As for my opinion. I would go for the High End. The main things that matter are the CPU & GPU when it comes to GAMING. The motherboard, RAM, and a few other things in that "build" are over-priced rides.

 

[Steltek]

Thanks but I already got a computer similar to the mid ranged spec..
I do happen to use a i5 3570k, but I'm a bit astonished that you would go as far as to say it is better than the i7 3770k. Care to elaborate?

For gaming purposes only, i5-3570k is superior to the 3770k. Now, on the other hand, if you throw in heavy duty photo editing with Photoshop, heavy video editing, running significant numbers of virtual machines, or running software capable of utilizing more than 4 threads, the pendulum swings totally back in favor of the 3770k which has better general purpose utility.

The 3770k has the hardware and cache onboard to support 4 additional hyperthreads above the four supported by the i5-3570k. Having that additional hardware actually has performance penalties associated with it when running software that doesn't need it. Additionally, as writing multi-threaded software is very difficult, most game publishers don't do it and won't be doing it any time soon. The vast majority of gaming software these days will not use more than 1-2 threads, which is well supported by the 3570k (which supports up to four software threads by design rather than the 8 threads of the 3770k).

Related to overclocking, Assuming proper cooling, it is easily possible to overclock a 3570k to 4.2ghz stable without even touching the stock voltage and to around 4.5ghz with minor voltage adjustments. Unfortunately, Ivy Bridge in general does have that annoying thermal material issue which prevents it from overclocking insanely like Sandy Bridge to above 5ghz (something I've always suspected Intel did purposefully to limit the prior gen competition down the road with the next generation of chips when Haswell is released).

You should really post your original query to the General Hardware forum. That is where the gaming build gurus hang out, and they'll be glad to go in to the issue with you in much more depth. You'll also get a lot more responses there.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Unfortunately, Ivy Bridge in general does have that annoying thermal material issue which prevents it from overclocking insanely like Sandy Bridge to above 5ghz

Aren't the new revisions doing much better in terms of overclocking headroom/ceiling?

 

[Steltek]

Aren't the new revisions doing much better in terms of overclocking headroom/ceiling?

Honestly, I hadn't been paying that much attention lately, so it is possible that newer revisions are doing better.

I overclocked my 3770k once when I got it to see what it would do, but my revision tops out at around 4.7GHZ (4.8GHZ but very unstable) and just won't go any further. I'm back at stock clocks now and will remain there until I run into something that needs the extra speed.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The 3770k has a larger physical die to hold the hardware and cache onboard to support 4 additional hyperthreads above the four supported by the i5-3570k.

Related to overclocking, the 3570k has a smaller physical processor die. It is well established that smaller die processors run cooler and overclock better.

I don't know where you get your info, but they are the same exact die.

 

[AngleSlam]

So basically I want to hear opinions of the 3 builds I'm going to list. I'm mainly interested in bang for buck and the needs it satisfies.
The components I'm listing are just examples, obviously there are going to be better options to choose from that you guys can suggest, but anyhow here goes.

Entry Level Gamer:

CPU: i3 3220- $130
GPU: GTX 660- $220
Mobo: Cheap ATX Mobo- $60
Ram: 4gb ddr3- $30
Hard drive: 500gb hdd $60
SSD: none
Optical drive: Any will do- $20
PSU: 500w- $40
Chassis: Cheap ATX- $40
OS: Windows 7 home (or 8) 64-bit- $90
Total: $650

Mid Level Gamer:

CPU: i5 3570k- $220
GPU: GTX 660ti- $300
Mobo: Z77 mobo- $140
Ram: 8gb ddr3: $50
Hard Drive: 1tb WD black- $100
SSD: none
Optical drive: any- $20
PSU: 750w SLI/CFX- $90
Chassis: Decent ATX- $70
OS: Windows 7 home (or 8) 64 bit- $90
CPU Cooler: Hyper 212 evo- $30
Total: $1110

High End Gamer:

CPU: i7 3770k- $330
GPU: GTX 670- $400
Mobo: Asus Sabertooth- $220
Ram: 16gb ddr3- $100
HDD: 2x1 tb WD black raid0- $200
SSD: SAMSUNG 840- $190
Optical drive: any-$20
PSU: 850w Gold Certified- $150
Chassis: Decent Full Size or ATX- Say NZXT Phantom- $110
OS: Windows 7 (or 8) 64 bit- $90 Or Pro editions- $140
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100- $100
Total: $1940

Power User/Enthusiast-

Not going into detail cause you know, top of the line no compromise stuff..like LGA2011 like i7 3930k, LGA2011 Mobo, full water cooling.
So around $4000 ish?

Summary:
Entry Level- Enough to start playing games at decent settings 1080p, some compromises but good bang for buck. No room for overclocking or dual gpu for future.
Mid Level- Can definitely play games at max settings 1080p may have to take it easy on AA and mods, ok for overclocking and dual cards for future. Limited power for Triple monitors or 1440p. Fairly decent bang for buck.
High Level- Can pump up the AA full blast and go heavy on mods 1080p. Suitable power for triple monitor and 1440p. Not so great on wallet but hey.
Enthusiast/Power User- Best that money can buy and whatever todays technology can permit. So you tell me.

Notable compromises- SSDs are limited to higher range builds because I see it as a luxery rather than a necessity, I mean what can you do today with 128gb of ssd space except for OS and a few games. When 1tb ssds become mainsteam then we'll talk.
Optical drive, of course you can buy expensive ones but it won't increase game performance, it's just so you can install cds. But with a bigger budget you can of course go with blue rays and stuff if you like.

FYI: This is just a discussion I already got my build, so I'm not really asking for recommendations or anything.

 

[Steltek]

I don't know where you get your info, but they are the same exact die.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. I just made an assumption and didn't think about what I was saying. It would have the additional hyperthread support and larger cache disabled on-chip, but it is likely still there making the die size the same. Oh well, goes without saying that I should check before I speak. . . . post edited to remove stupidity.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The mid level is the best choice, but you are wasteful in many categories--IE, getting the multi-GPU capable PSU when that's just inefficient (selling the old one and getting a new one is most efficient), getting a WD Black, which is really aimed at enterprise, allotting for an overly expensive mobo (you can get everything you need for $100), and so on. You can get a $400 graphics card and an SSD in a $1100 build.

Check out mfenn's $1000 build for an idea of what price efficiency looks like--then factor in an OS.

 

[lehtv]

These are gaming builds so the proportion of money spent on graphics performance should be roughly equal on all budgets. Why is it that in the Entry Level build you spend 34% on the graphics card, but on Mid Level that already decreases to 27% and in the high end build it's a meager 20%?

In the High End build, gaming performance is only 10% better than on Mid Level yet the build is double the cost. It should have double the performance.

Here's my take:

Entry (medium settings 1080p)

i3-3220 or FX-6300
Cheap board (i3) or entry level OC board (FX-6300)
8GB DDR3
7850 2GB, 7870 or GTX 660
500GB or 1TB HDD
500W PSU
<$50 case

Mid (high-ultra settings 1080p)

i5-3570K
120mm cooler (optional) (@4.2GHz)
Z77 board
8GB DDR3
7950 3GB or 7970 3GB (OC to 1.0-1.2GHz)
1TB HDD
120GB SSD
500-750W PSU depending on motherboard
$50-80 case

High (high settings 1440p or 1080p @ 120hz or ultra stable 60fps @ 1080p @ 60hz)

i5-3570K
High end cooler (@4.6GHz+)
Z77 midrange SLI/CF board
8GB DDR3
7970 Crossfire (OC to 1.1-1.2GHz)
Asus Xonar sound card
1TB HDD
240GB SSD
750W PSU (Gold or Platinum)
$100+ case with good cooling

 

[ElFenix]

high end gamer is just burning money on the mobo. right now games don't really take advantage of the 4 additional threads available on the 3770 over the 3570, so that's just burning money too.

frankly, the only difference between your mid build and a high end should be the video card and to make sure the computer is SLI/CF capable, if not SLI/CF from the start (especially if you want to drive 3x FHD or 2x QHD).

 

[ElFenix]

Moved thread from Computer Help for more apropos forum

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[DominionSeraph]

In the High End build, gaming performance is only 10% better than on Mid Level yet the build is double the cost. It should have at least double the performance - 7970 Crossfire is easily doable for less than $2K.

Paying $900 for massive microstutter isn't exactly an upgrade. Better to get a Titan for teh pussy.

 

[lehtv]

Paying $900 for massive microstutter isn't exactly an upgrade. Better to get a Titan for teh pussy.

$900? More like $750-800.

Where is the microstutter if your FPS is stable 60fps @ 60hz?

In any case, a GTX 670 SLI setup easily outperforms a Titan for $200 less.

 

[mfenn]

These are gaming builds so the proportion of money spent on graphics performance should be roughly equal on all budgets. Why is it that in the Entry Level build you spend 34% on the graphics card, but on Mid Level that already decreases to 27% and in the high end build it's a meager 20%?

That was my thought as well. How did the midrange build add $460, but only go up $80 on the GPU and not include an SSD? As my weekly midrange build thread shows, you can get an $1100 computer with OS and 7970 any week of the year.

 

[mfenn]

Can we get a merge with this thread?

 

[Sleepingforest]

I would say anything past around $1100 is pretty wasteful anyway. SLI, pimped out but functionally no better motherboards, an 850W PSU (you need 750W for 2 7970s, and around 950-1000W for 3, so 850W is a bad choice), RAID0 (with overpriced WD Blacks, no less), the i7, 16GB of RAM rather than 8 (in a time of soaring prices, no less), and the overpriced H100 are all contributors to inefficient spending.

I'd take the extra $900 (in a $2000 budget) and get a solid 1440p monitor, a nice keyboard, and a good mouse.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Where is the microstutter if your FPS is stable 60fps @ 60hz?

60Hz? Wow, the last time I gamed at 60Hz I was on a 486SX 33Mhz. But that was a $2000 computer too, so I guess it fits.

Mind your manners, DS
-ViRGE

 

[Sleepingforest]

I'd have 1600p over 120-144Hz any day.

Let the wars begin.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I'd have 1600p over 120-144Hz any day.

I'd rather have 640x480 256 color than 1600p monochrome.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I didn't realize you would interpert "any day" like this, but I can't say I'm really surprised in hindsight.

And I'd rather have the 1600p monochrome--the color doesn't help that much in many cases, and you can get a lot out of just black, white, and gray.

 

[ElFenix]

Can we get a merge with this thread?

Done!

 

[AngleSlam]

Yeah, I do realize that some of the extra features on the higher end builds do not really contribute to gaming, but they are convienent to have for general use besides gaming.

For pure gamers, the build will be video card based.
In other words spend the bare minimum threshold to not bottleneck the card. So good psu, cpu, and enough ram and mobo. Then spend as much as you can afford on graphics. sli 660s are around $450 and performs very well. Gtx670s are better at higher resolutions, overclocked sli 670s is one of the best bang for buck solutions too. Around $800 typically for a good pair of 670s, but cheaper brands can go as low as $650 for a pair.