Company needs to hire 18,000 people,

sunzt

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Nov 27, 2003
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Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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uhh sorry, but don't want foxconn manufacturing job.

No Americans want American manufacturing jobs with all the legal benefits and protections that were fought for in a democracy. Allowing products from a totalitarian dictatorship with substandard working conditions to come into this country without tariffs does an end around all that.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
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No Americans want American manufacturing jobs with all the legal benefits and protections that were fought for in a democracy. Allowing products from a totalitarian dictatorship with substandard working conditions to come into this country without tariffs does an end around all that.

Hence, i said don't want foxconn manufacture job. In addition to cost, the primary reason apple went with foxconn is their flexibily and ability to summon 80,000+ workers from their beds at 2 am in the morning from the foxconn mini cities to finish a product due in 72 hours. That's the real reason apple went with foxconn.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Hence, i said don't want foxconn manufacture job. In addition to cost, the primary reason apple went with foxconn is their flexibily and ability to summon 80,000+ workers from their beds at 2 am in the morning from the foxconn mini cities to finish a product due in 72 hours. That's the real reason apple went with foxconn.

Seems like you're missing the entire point of this thread. Those jobs are over there because of out of control free trade. They're being driven by American demand. If we had fair trade, either the jobs would come back here or there would be no Foxconn conditions (at the very least for products coming over here.)
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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uhh sorry, but don't want foxconn manufacturing job.

If those jobs were over here, they would be governed by our labor laws.

You do not want a Foxconn China manufacturing job.

Big difference
 
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Jan 7, 2012
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Weird...you guys are arguing for the same thing: Foxconn manufacturing sucks because of the conditions in China. Both of you made points of why the jobs are in China: Ability to force mini-armies to wake up 24/7 and work like slaves and the end-around all of our protections we have earned over the years in America.
 

Mxylplyx

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Mar 21, 2007
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If those jobs were over here, they would be governed by out labor laws.

You do not want a Foxconn China manufacturing job.

Big difference

The problem is that with our labor laws, the jobs arent going to be over here. We cant fight global wage arbitrage while at the same time honoring free trade principles. Americans want to have their cake and eat it to. Protecting manufacturing along with the pay and benefits traditionally afforded manufacturing workers in this country will result in significantly higher prices for those goods. Free trade was adopted at a time when most of the world was populated by peasants who could do little more than simple cottage industries and farm work. Now we have an industrialized competitor, whose people mostly still live like peasant slaves, manufacturing high tech goods. The system wasnt designed to work like this while preserving the relatively comfortable way of life we have become accustomed to.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
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pretty soon China is going to move its factories to America, everybody knows the workforce is cheaper there :p
 

EagleKeeper

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The problem is that with our labor laws, the jobs arent going to be over here. We cant fight global wage arbitrage while at the same time honoring free trade principles. Americans want to have their cake and eat it to. Protecting manufacturing along with the pay and benefits traditionally afforded manufacturing workers in this country will result in significantly higher prices for those goods. Free trade was adopted at a time when most of the world was populated by peasants who could do little more than simple cottage industries and farm work. Now we have an industrialized competitor, whose people mostly still live like peasant slaves, manufacturing high tech goods. The system wasnt designed to work like this while preserving the relatively comfortable way of life we have become accustomed to.

Those jobs are not going to be here because the customers are unwilling to pay the price of having those jobs. People complain about an iPhone being $400. but they are also unwilling to pay $1K to keep the 18000 jobs here.

My dig was that fact he did not like the company for it's China operations.
Had it been US jobs; not a peep from him
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Those jobs are not going to be here because the customers are unwilling to pay the price of having those jobs. People complain about an iPhone being $400. but they are also unwilling to pay $1K to keep the 18000 jobs here.

I have to disagree.

The difference in the iphone being made in china, and the phone being made in the US, is whether apple makes 500 billion, or only 200 billion in profits.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Apple has a price point planned.

That price point is not able to be met by manufacturing facilities in the US.

They expect to lose $$ on the phone but make it up in extras tied to the phone.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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too bad the jobs are in china

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-5...ter-were-hiring-for-june-release-of-iphone-5/

Aint free trade great.

Wouldn't it be a boom to the economy if those jobs were in Mississippi, or Texas, or any of the other 50 states??

Except people in Mississippi are less productive and demand higher wages. Why would anyone want to do anything in Mississippi? The state is barely a rung above places in Africa and that's simply because they are part of the United States. When Mississippi wants to start actually doing things and not leeching off the rest of the States, maybe I'd give a fuck for them to have some jobs. Or they could just create the shit themselves and take the lower wages, but oops that'd be against Federal law that demands people be paid so much. oh wells.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
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My dig was that fact he did not like the company for it's China operations. Had it been US jobs; not a peep from him

What's wrong with that? The company is primarily known for and relies on its Chinese operations. All of its negative publicity is because of its Chinese operations. If there was a US company hiring 18k people, then that's great and probably wouldn't have said anything. Not seeing anything wrong here.
 

DucatiMonster696

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Aug 13, 2009
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Why are you on a tech forum?

FLA Finds Overtime/Pay/Safety Violations at Apple's Foxconn Plants in China
http://www.dailytech.com/FLA+Finds+...ples+Foxconn+Plants+in+China/article24347.htm

Foxconn Suicides
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

'Mass suicide' protest at Apple manufacturer Foxconn factory
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html


goes on and on...


Just letting you know.....

Don't believe everything you read the first time around.

http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stor...-artist-mike-daisey-accused-lying-about-apple

The Mike Daisy's radio show((and the NPR) retracts the claims and statements which made the story.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/16/BUN41NM3VO.DTL&type=tech

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...can-Life-abuses-Apple-factories-China-up.html


Yet as the old saying goes...."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" - Mark Twain.
 
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sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
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Just letting you know.....

Don't believe everything you read the first time around.

http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stor...-artist-mike-daisey-accused-lying-about-apple

The Mike Daisy's radio show((and the NPR) retracts the claims and statements which made the story.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/16/BUN41NM3VO.DTL&type=tech

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...can-Life-abuses-Apple-factories-China-up.html


Yet as the old saying goes...."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes" - Mark Twain.

None of those sources i used referred to Mark Daisy.

Fact: Foxconn workers committed suicide on site premises
Fact: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicides
Fact: FLA found violations at foxconn
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
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None of those sources i used referred to Mark Daisy.

Fact: Foxconn workers committed suicide on site premises
Fact: Foxconn workers threatened mass suicides
Fact: FLA found violations at foxconn

In regards to the actual suicides there is no verifiable correlation to those events and the working conditions at the Chinese foxconn factories where those employees worked.

As for the FLA violations Foxconn and Apple moved to address those issues which were minimal at best in severity in these Chinese factories that were found out of compliance.

Lastly the 150 people threatening "mass suicdie" sounds like nothing more then a badly plan stunt to gain concessions from Foxconn and Apple.

Again the initial story which lead to the spotlight was not based on factual reporting and according to the NPR and Mike Daisy who both retracted their stories on Foxconn's working conditions they had no actual evidence of wrong doing by Foxconn. In addition even the New York Times piece on working conditions is being held suspect being that it was based on the instal NPR/Mike Daisy fantasy show.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
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In regards to the actual suicides there is no verifiable correlation to those events and the working conditions at the Chinese foxconn factories where those employees worked.

As for the FLA violations Foxconn and Apple moved to address those issues which were minimal at best in severity in these Chinese factories that were found out of compliance.

Lastly the 150 people threatening "mass suicdie" sounds like nothing more then a badly plan stunt to gain concessions from Foxconn and Apple.

Again the initial story which lead to the spotlight was not based on factual reporting and according to the NPR and Mike Daisy who both retracted their stories on Foxconn's working conditions they had no actual evidence of wrong doing by Foxconn. In addition even the New York Times piece on working conditions is being held suspect being that it was based on the instal NPR/Mike Daisy fantasy show.

Mike Daisy was not the initial story...

The initial story was when workers started jumping off Foxconn buildings which lead to the company installing suicide prevention nets at the facility. Of course, the suiciding workers have no connection with the working conditions at Foxconn at all... i mean, they all just decided to jump off foxconn buildings just for the heck of it rather than doing it somewhere else. It couldn't be any forced and uncompensated overtime, stuffing 12 people in a dorm room, and disregards for worker safety... of course, none of that is related people being miserable and feeling hopeless.

<Waves hand>

EVERYONE IS HAPPY! SUICIDES ARE JUST COINCIDENTAL! 14 SUICIDES PER YER (2010) AT A COMPANY IS NORMAL! Nothing is going on here, move along.
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
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As for the FLA violations Foxconn and Apple moved to address those issues which were minimal at best in severity in these Chinese factories that were found out of compliance.

Some of these issues are defiantly not minimal and would not fly using US standards:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/29/fla-report-reveals-issues-at-foxconn-plants-details-solutions/

More systematic safety issues were noted, such as high rates of unreported accidents. Foxconn will immediately require accidents to be reported if they result in an injury, rather than if production is stopped, which was the previous criterion.
...
All three factories exceeded weekly and monthly overtime limits and used worker-unfriendly overtime calculation. Foxconn agreed to bring working hours down from an average of over 60 hours a week during peak production periods to the legal maximum of 49, including overtime
..

A number of simple safety precautions were not being taken, such as protective equipment, permits, and ensuring a safe exit. Many of these problems were remedied immediately, and the FLA noted that Foxconn had in fact improved &#8220;operating procedures, measurement, and documentation&#8221; related to the facilities where aluminum dust (which is dangerous and inflammable) must be managed.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
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Some of these issues are defiantly not minimal and would not fly using US standards:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/29/fla-report-reveals-issues-at-foxconn-plants-details-solutions/

Yet these plants are not located in the US thus their standards would always differ no matter what you believe is correct or in correct. Hence if they are in compliance with Chinese laws then your issue is not with them but with the Chinese government itself because it is their government who issues and establishes those laws and sets the standards by which all these factories are compelled to meet.
 
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