Compact flourescent bulbs, great for energy savings, environment

[Modelworks]

I never really thought about that people might drop one, or it going to the landfill.
Would be careful, especially if you have children.




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23694819/

Compact fluorescent light bulbs, long touted by environmentalists as a more efficient and longer-lasting alternative to the incandescent bulbs that have lighted homes for more than a century, are running into resistance from waste industry officials and some environmental scientists, who warn that the bulbs? poisonous innards pose a bigger threat to health and the environment than previously thought.

Fluorescents ? the squiggly, coiled bulbs that generate light by heating gases in a glass tube ? are generally considered to use more than 50 percent less energy and to last several times longer than incandescent bulbs.

When fluorescent bulbs first hit store shelves several years ago, consumers complained about the loud noise they made, their harsh light, their bluish color, their clunky shape and the long time it took for them to warm up.

Since then, the bulbs ? known as CFLs ? have been revamped, and strict government guidelines have alleviated most of those problems. But while the bulbs are extremely energy-efficient, one problem hasn?t gone away: All CFLs contain mercury, a neurotoxin that can cause kidney and brain damage.

The amount is tiny ? about 5 milligrams, or barely enough to cover the tip of a pen ? but that is enough to contaminate up to 6,000 gallons of water beyond safe drinking levels, extrapolated from Stanford University research on mercury. Even the latest lamps promoted as ?low-mercury? can contaminate more than 1,000 gallons of water beyond safe levels.

There is no disputing that overall, fluorescent bulbs save energy and reduce pollution in general. An average incandescent bulb lasts about 800 to 1,500 hours; a spiral fluorescent bulb can last as long as 10,000 hours. In just more than a year ? since the beginning of 2007 ? 9 million fluorescent bulbs have been purchased in California, preventing the release of 1.5 billion pounds of carbon dioxide compared with traditional bulbs, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

?Using them actually reduces overall emissions to the environment, even though they contain minuscule amounts of mercury in themselves,? said Mark Kohorst, senior manager for environment, health and safety for the National Electrical Manufacturers Association.

Public, agencies ill-informed of risks
As long as the mercury is contained in the bulb, CFLs are perfectly safe. But eventually, any bulbs ? even CFLs ? break or burn out, and most consumers simply throw them out in the trash, said Ellen Silbergeld, a professor of environmental health sciences at Johns Hopkins University and editor of the journal Environmental Research.

?This is an enormous amount of mercury that?s going to enter the waste stream at present with no preparation for it,? she said.

Manufacturers and the EPA say broken CFLs should be handled carefully and recycled to limit dangerous vapors and the spread of mercury dust. But guidelines for how to do that can be difficult to find, as Brandy Bridges of Ellsworth, Maine, discovered.

It was just a wiggly bulb that I reached up to change,? Bridges said. ?When the bulb hit the floor, it shattered.?

When Bridges began calling around to local government agencies to find out what to do, ?I was shocked to see how uninformed literally everyone I spoke to was,? she said. ?Even our own poison control operator didn?t know what to tell me.?

The state eventually referred her to a private cleanup firm, which quoted a $2,000 estimate to contain the mercury. After Bridges complained publicly about her predicament, state officials changed their recommendation: Simply throw it in the trash, they said.

Break a bulb? Five steps for cleanup
That was the wrong answer, according to the EPA. It offers a detailed, 11-step procedure you should follow: Air out the room for a quarter of an hour. Wear gloves. Double-bag the refuse. Use duct tape to lift the residue from a carpet. Don?t use a vacuum cleaner, as that will only spread the problem. The next time you vacuum the area, immediately dispose of the vacuum bag.

In general, however, the EPA endorses the use of fluorescent bulbs, citing their energy savings. Silbergeld also does not discourage their use because of their energy savings, but she said the EPA could be sending mixed signals to confused consumers.

?It?s kind of ironic that on the one hand, the agency is saying, ?Don?t worry, it?s a very small amount of mercury.? Then they have a whole page of [instructions] how to handle the situation if you break one,? she said.

 

[ElFenix]

the obvious answer is to have programs similar to motor oil. take the bulb to a home depot/lowes/wally world/wherever and give it to them.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
the obvious answer is to have programs similar to motor oil. take the bulb to a home depot/lowes/wally world/wherever and give it to them.

These programs are slowly happening. I know IKEA does it. Similar to cell-phone, batteries, etc.

 

[Throckmorton]

Mercury is a serious problem. I can't understand why ALL these bulbs aren't encased in hard plastic. Not only would that reduce chance of breaking, but if sealed it would contain the mercury even if there is a break. Ikea does this.

 

[dullard]

Myth.

1) CFLs HAD mercury. But by the end of 2008 all new CFL bulbs were supposed to be essentially mercury free. Corrected to add the word essentially.

2) The amount of mercury in CFLs that had mercury was so minimal, that it can not harm you even if you broke several and inhaled/injested all of it.

3) You emit far more mercury from using normal bulbs. The coal that is burned to provide that extra power contains mercury which goes into the air you breathe. More mercury is emitted into the environment from using a normal bulb than if you took the CFL and broke it purposely to spill mercury.

4) Repost for at least the 1000th time.

 

[Vette73]

Using old bulbs probable put more mercury in the environment then using these.
Most power comes from coal, coal power releases a lot of mercury, old bulbs use more power then new bulbs, etc... get it.

This is a problem for something that is not a problem.


Coal-fired power plants are the largest single man-made source of mercury pollution in the U.S.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: dullard
Myth.

1) CFLs HAD mercury. But by the end of 2007 all new CFL bulbs were supposed to be mercury free.

Fact
You cannot currently make a CFL without mercury.

 

[Vette73]

More on Mercury, Coal and CFLs - Updated

Summary
Mercury from the CFLs and their use = 2,259 pounds
Mercury from incandescent bulb usage = 2,425 pounds

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
More on Mercury, Coal and CFLs - Updated

Summary
Mercury from the CFLs and their use = 2,259 pounds
Mercury from incandescent bulb usage = 2,425 pounds [/b]

The difference is the mercury from incandescent bulbs isn't brought into your home when you buy the bulb.

 

[MisterJackson]

I found a bunch of these energy saver bulbs @ Target for $1/each and replaced all of the bulbs in our house. I hate the harshness of the lighting and have actually started getting headaches from it.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Fact
You cannot currently make a CFL without mercury.

I should have said essentially mercury free. Drastically reduced mercury CFLs are already being made.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: MisterJackson
I found a bunch of these energy saver bulbs @ Target for $1/each and replaced all of the bulbs in our house. I hate the harshness of the lighting and have actually started getting headaches from it.

CFLs have different light output based on its rating. Search for ones that produce a different light band and you will be happy. Everybody have their fav, you just have to find your range.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The difference is the mercury from incandescent bulbs isn't brought into your home when you buy the bulb.

It still doesn't matter. Even if you take somehow get ALL the mercury in all the CFLs in a typical home into your body, it STILL won't reach the amount of mercury in your body required to be harmful.

And the mercury from energy use DOES enter your home.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: MisterJackson
I found a bunch of these energy saver bulbs @ Target for $1/each and replaced all of the bulbs in our house. I hate the harshness of the lighting and have actually started getting headaches from it.

There are different types. There's a really harsh White light, which I have in my bedside lamp. Then there's a much nicer yellow light similar to Incandescent bulbs, which I use elsewhere. The Yellow is much easier on the eyes.

 

[BigJ]

A lot of stink by MSNBC about a whole 'lotta nothing.

 

[nova2]

like one mentioned, ikea has CFL's with an outer shell around them
http://images.google.com/imgre...26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff

that page also lists a 70$ LED bulb that only uses 9 watts.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The difference is the mercury from incandescent bulbs isn't brought into your home when you buy the bulb.

It still doesn't matter. Even if you take somehow get ALL the mercury in all the CFLs in a typical home into your body, it STILL won't reach the amount of mercury in your body required to be harmful.

And the mercury from energy use DOES enter your home.

It does matter if you have children or are pregnant , which is why I posted it.

So you have no problem, breaking a cfl open and swallowing the contents ?

I didn't think so.


I think I will believe stanford.

The amount is tiny ? about 5 milligrams, or barely enough to cover the tip of a pen ? but that is enough to contaminate up to 6,000 gallons of water beyond safe drinking levels, extrapolated from Stanford University research on mercury. Even the latest lamps promoted as ?low-mercury? can contaminate more than 1,000 gallons of water beyond safe levels.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: MisterJackson
I found a bunch of these energy saver bulbs @ Target for $1/each and replaced all of the bulbs in our house. I hate the harshness of the lighting and have actually started getting headaches from it.

That's because you got cheap or daylight color bulbs. The yellower "soft light" bulbs are not harsh. I like them MORE than incandescent, and I'm the guy who swore them off for years because I bought one of the harsh ones long ago. Go to Home Depot and buy n:Vision bulbs.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: dullard
Myth.

1) CFLs HAD mercury. But by the end of 2008 all new CFL bulbs were supposed to be essentially mercury free. Corrected to add the word essentially.

2) The amount of mercury in CFLs that had mercury was so minimal, that it can not harm you even if you broke several and inhaled/injested all of it.

3) You emit far more mercury from using normal bulbs. The coal that is burned to provide that extra power contains mercury which goes into the air you breathe. More mercury is emitted into the environment from using a normal bulb than if you took the CFL and broke it purposely to spill mercury.

4) Repost for at least the 1000th time.

the end of 2008 hasn't happened yet. "were"

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The difference is the mercury from incandescent bulbs isn't brought into your home when you buy the bulb.

It still doesn't matter. Even if you take somehow get ALL the mercury in all the CFLs in a typical home into your body, it STILL won't reach the amount of mercury in your body required to be harmful.

And the mercury from energy use DOES enter your home.

It does matter if you have children or are pregnant , which is why I posted it.

So you have no problem, breaking a cfl open and swallowing the contents ?

I didn't think so.


I think I will believe stanford.

The amount is tiny ? about 5 milligrams, or barely enough to cover the tip of a pen ? but that is enough to contaminate up to 6,000 gallons of water beyond safe drinking levels, extrapolated from Stanford University research on mercury. Even the latest lamps promoted as ?low-mercury? can contaminate more than 1,000 gallons of water beyond safe levels.

The mercury in a CFL is only hazardous in the home if a bulb is broken, and the environmental damage can be completely avoided by recycling.
The mercury put out by burning coal is dumped into the air as particulate which spreads out everyhere, and then washes out with rain fall to collect over braod areas of land. And this happens all the time as the normal event, not as an abnormal eent like breaking a CFL.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Nyati13



The mercury in a CFL is only hazardous in the home if a bulb is broken, and the environmental damage can be completely avoided by recycling.
The mercury put out by burning coal is dumped into the air as particulate which spreads out everyhere, and then washes out with rain fall to collect over braod areas of land. And this happens all the time as the normal event, not as an abnormal eent like breaking a CFL.

Correct and I agree.
But the reason I posted it is because I didn't want some family to be harmed by them if they happened to break one. I've seen the effects of mercury on children and its not pretty.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
More on Mercury, Coal and CFLs - Updated

Summary
Mercury from the CFLs and their use = 2,259 pounds
Mercury from incandescent bulb usage = 2,425 pounds [/b]

Every study I've ever seen completely ignores that heat energy from incandescent bulbs isn't always "wasted." For those of us in more Northern climates (NY)- who heat their homes 6 or more months of the year, and who only occasionally use air conditioning, the heat from incandescent bulbs is NOT wasted during the months when the heat is on. I'll bow down to the argument that if it's a ceiling light, on the top floor of a poorly insulated house, that the heat is wasted as it is lost through the ceiling. But, that's not the majority of the light bulbs. 500 watts of incandescent bulbs operating uses the same amount of energy as 100 watts of CFL's and a 400 watt space heater. In those two cases, if they give off the same amount of light, then they give off the same amount of heat. In fact, we actually use special 250 watt lightbulbs to provide heat in certain applications.

 

[darkxshade]

Lets all stop eating fish while we're at it.

 

[PottedMeat]

Originally posted by: nova2
like one mentioned, ikea has CFL's with an outer shell around them
http://images.google.com/imgre...26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff

that page also lists a 70$ LED bulb that only uses 9 watts.

I have a little Ikea fluorescent lamp with a 7W bulb. It's got that plastic container surrounding it along with a diffuser/lens and it gets pretty hot ( enough to flinch your hand off ).

That LED bulb is pretty crazy - lots of materials. Could have done it with 3 3W power LEDs plus a transformer and buck converter. Though I guess its easier to stick them all in series to get multiple strings of 120V in parallel.

Recycling CFLs will probably be only done by large companies doing mass replacements. 99% of daily breaks/malfunctions are going in the trash.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
It does matter if you have children or are pregnant , which is why I posted it.

Nope, still too little mercury in a CFL to harm either.

So you have no problem, breaking a cfl open and swallowing the contents ?

As I posted in other threads, there isn't enough mercury in a CFL to cause problems. I would have no problems swallowing the mercury in a CFL bulb. I wouldn't purposely go out and do it, but if I accidently ingested it, I wouldn't worry. Why? Because there is so little mercury it isn't a problem. A large mackerel steak (or swordfish, or shark, or others) has about the same amount of mercury as the CFL bulb that I linked above. If you are against mercury in your CFL bulbs, you must be against eating many kinds of fish.

The WHO gives a tolerable mercury level of 2 ug of mercury per kg of body weight per day (http://www.who.int/phe/news/Mercury-flyer.pdf , see page 3). Thus, I (154 lbs) can safely tollerate 0.14 mg of mercury ingested a day, each and every day of my life. At 1 mg for the CFL bulb I linked, that isn't much above that tolerable level. And as a one time occurance, going a bit above the tolerable level won't cause any problems.

The 1000 gallons of water is a red-herring argument. I could easily get a panel of people together and set an arbitrary number making that be 1,000,000 gallons of water are contaminated. Or I could get a different panel and give an arbitrary number of 1 gallon of water. Don't make the mistake that journalists often make and take arbitrary numbers and use them to form sensationalist news articles. Instead, go with scientifically reviewed studies.