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Communications vs. Transportation, what the heck went wrong?

C

CallTheFBI

Banned
If you compare our current communications technology to our current transportation technology there is a big gap. We have wireless networks, the Internet, cellular phones, sattellite TV, etc. and it all works pretty damn smoothly most of the time. Now let's compare this to our transportation: jammed freeways, pollution and the old fashioned internal combustion engine that has been with us for quite a LONG time. Is it just me or have people invested a lot more money in communications companies than transportation companies? I mean there is a serious discrepency here.
 
I live on a mountain that only has one main road on and off it and it is only a two lane country road. The area we live in is *supposed* to be semi-rural. However this two lane road has so much damn traffic its like a damn highway! The reason: people trying to get from one freeway to another use this road as a shortcut to avoid traffic lights. The solution: a simple ramp that goes from one freeway to the other. It has been years now and NOTHING has been done about the problem. The road that leads from the main road I mentioned above to my house used to have no traffic on it, and now I see more and more traffic on it everyday. It is really getting ridiculous.
 
There's a serious discrepency in the cost of infrastructure development as well - it costs far more to make advancements in transportation. That large cost makes it extremely prohibitive for a private company to make any type of major advancement - sure they can refine an engine but it doesn't change the road system. The same costs often prohibit local governments from making other advancements - people will get upset if their taxes go up to fund a new system and they don't see immediate results. Another issue with government funding is the length of time funds would be needed - over a 20 year project you could expect to have at least 3 different leaders of the local government, with different levels of commitment to the project.
 
CallTheFBI: you have a point. But the transportation problem has some difficult issues to solve. We can't "shrink the size" of people (as is frequent with microelectronics--look at transistor size, and you can explain most of the advancement)... and therefore, we can't shrink the size of cars, trucks, and roads. The computer/microelectronic field has the nice ability to change standards at any given time (think about just wireless technology and the different standards), and MOST of their advancements are nice "additions" rather than changing existing products.

That aside, I think its MOSTLY a management problem. And a "business" one. Its VERY expensive to update the highways and transportation. And you MUST do so in a way that doesn't remove the CURRENT way of doing things--you can't tear up an interstate to start a new one. And that's EXPENSIVE. And politicians (and a LOT of citizens) don't want to foot the bill for it.

As far as the IC engine, I think we're working on replacing it. But the carmakers are getting VERY good at it. The new ULEV standards are VERY low emission and very high efficiency, with a VERY good range (15 gallons of gas will get you a long way....). Plus, we have the infrastructure to deal with it (gas stations, etc). Plus, if you look at real pollution statistics, fossil fuel-fired power plants produce FAR more pollution than all the cars in America. So I don't think the IC engine is the problem. In America, at least, the "car culture" is somewhat of a problem--everyone driving all the time by themselves, the lack of feasible mass transit over most of the country, etc--that causes a LOT of congestion. And we'll need an outside force to change that--either really expensive gas (like Europe), or a conscience change over the general population (which is rare). And the former has the problem that all of our other goods would go up in price--because the vast majority of shipping in this country is done by tractor-trailer.

I don't think the leaps and bounds of microelectronics will EVER be seen in the transportation world (think about how "old" an old computer is versus how old a new car is....).... but we really do need to work on it!
 
Originally posted by: ryzmah
There's a serious discrepency in the cost of infrastructure development as well - it costs far more to make advancements in transportation. That large cost makes it extremely prohibitive for a private company to make any type of major advancement - sure they can refine an engine but it doesn't change the road system. The same costs often prohibit local governments from making other advancements - people will get upset if their taxes go up to fund a new system and they don't see immediate results. Another issue with government funding is the length of time funds would be needed - over a 20 year project you could expect to have at least 3 different leaders of the local government, with different levels of commitment to the project.
Click to expand...

Nicely put
 
Originally posted by: HokieESM
CallTheFBI: you have a point. But the transportation problem has some difficult issues to solve. We can't "shrink the size" of people (as is frequent with microelectronics--look at transistor size, and you can explain most of the advancement)... and therefore, we can't shrink the size of cars, trucks, and roads. The computer/microelectronic field has the nice ability to change standards at any given time (think about just wireless technology and the different standards), and MOST of their advancements are nice "additions" rather than changing existing products.

That aside, I think its MOSTLY a management problem. And a "business" one. Its VERY expensive to update the highways and transportation. And you MUST do so in a way that doesn't remove the CURRENT way of doing things--you can't tear up an interstate to start a new one. And that's EXPENSIVE. And politicians (and a LOT of citizens) don't want to foot the bill for it.

As far as the IC engine, I think we're working on replacing it. But the carmakers are getting VERY good at it. The new ULEV standards are VERY low emission and very high efficiency, with a VERY good range (15 gallons of gas will get you a long way....). Plus, we have the infrastructure to deal with it (gas stations, etc). Plus, if you look at real pollution statistics, fossil fuel-fired power plants produce FAR more pollution than all the cars in America. So I don't think the IC engine is the problem. In America, at least, the "car culture" is somewhat of a problem--everyone driving all the time by themselves, the lack of feasible mass transit over most of the country, etc--that causes a LOT of congestion. And we'll need an outside force to change that--either really expensive gas (like Europe), or a conscience change over the general population (which is rare). And the former has the problem that all of our other goods would go up in price--because the vast majority of shipping in this country is done by tractor-trailer.

I don't think the leaps and bounds of microelectronics will EVER be seen in the transportation world (think about how "old" an old computer is versus how old a new car is....).... but we really do need to work on it!
Click to expand...

But there are some solutions for transportation, mind you they may be futuristic but I don't see anyone really giving them a try. Take this idea for example. You know those tubes that they have a the drive up teller windows at the banks where you put the money in and the thing shoots through the tubes to get to the teller? Well what if they made those for people? A lot like in the Jetsons. You get in the tube, punch in a code for your destination and it shoots you over there. Granted it would have to be very well designed as to make it very unlikely for two capsules in the tube to collide. But this solution may very well work for very high density cities such as New York City.

 
Originally posted by: ryzmah
There's a serious discrepency in the cost of infrastructure development as well - it costs far more to make advancements in transportation. That large cost makes it extremely prohibitive for a private company to make any type of major advancement - sure they can refine an engine but it doesn't change the road system. The same costs often prohibit local governments from making other advancements - people will get upset if their taxes go up to fund a new system and they don't see immediate results. Another issue with government funding is the length of time funds would be needed - over a 20 year project you could expect to have at least 3 different leaders of the local government, with different levels of commitment to the project.
Click to expand...

Yep! People are funny like that. They piss and moan about having to pay tolls to go on nice roads, or having to pay an extra $.20 a gallon in gas, or don't want to give up their 350HP RWD behemouth, but then they'll turn right back around and spend $500 a year in PC upgrades, $500 every couple years on a new digital camera, $3000 on a TV, $60 a month for cable modem access, ect.

I blame people.
 
Case in point - Segway. People looked at is as just a high priced, bloated scooter. That wasn't the main intention. The idea was to actually reinvent the wheel per se and redesign the way that cities and roadways functioned.

It went over like a turd in the punchbowl. You can only change as much as people are willing to.
 
Admittedly, it's a lot easier to move words than it is to move freight and people. However, I'd say it's pretty clear from all the YAGT threads that, for all our vaunted communications technology, we're still not really all that great at communication..
 
There's the human factor. We can only go so fast safely, but with communications, it's not an issue. And consider the amount spent by GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan... it's not a small amount. In 1890, a 10HP engine was about 10' long, 8' high, and 4' wide. Today a 10HP engine is a 1' cube. And is cheap. The "old fashioned" engine is something that works well and has been refined. You still use an old fashioned bicycle right? What about an old fashioned stove? Your clothes are pretty "old fashioned" as well. Why do we use them? Because they work, and they work well. And when you think communications has grown by leaps and bounds, it really hasn't. There's two main systems, phone and broadcast. That hasn't changed. Only the interface has changed, and the core of it is still in place.

 
The United States transportation system is the most efficient in the world as measured by the percentage of the cost of the finished product to the consumer.

In many ways the transportation system has lead the way in using technology. The second largest computer network in the world is owned by a US trucking company.

One of the major initial investors in Qualcomm was this same company.

Ever check out the new concrete and asphalt used in roads now? Ever check out how many engineers the transportation industry employs?


The only discrepency here is your need for more information.
 
Originally posted by: Tominator
The United States transportation system is the most efficient in the world as measured by the percentage of the cost of the finished product to the consumer.

In many ways the transportation system has lead the way in using technology. The second largest computer network in the world is owned by a US trucking company.

One of the major initial investors in Qualcomm was this same company.

Ever check out the new concrete and asphalt used in roads now? Ever check out how many engineers the transportation industry employs?


The only discrepency here is your need for more information.
Click to expand...

Walking down the road and seeing the endless traffic on a two lane country road in my neighborhood is all the information I need, thank you very much.

:|
 
Originally posted by: CallTheFBI
Originally posted by: Tominator
The United States transportation system is the most efficient in the world as measured by the percentage of the cost of the finished product to the consumer.

In many ways the transportation system has lead the way in using technology. The second largest computer network in the world is owned by a US trucking company.

One of the major initial investors in Qualcomm was this same company.

Ever check out the new concrete and asphalt used in roads now? Ever check out how many engineers the transportation industry employs?


The only discrepency here is your need for more information.
Click to expand...

Walking down the road and seeing the endless traffic on a two lane country road in my neighborhood is all the information I need, thank you very much.

:|
Click to expand...

Do you walk outside and see snow on the ground and say to yourself the whole world is always covered by snow? THINK!

 
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