"Commonsense Conservatism"

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,329
6,040
126
True conservatives would be awesome at handling covid, personal responsibility, stepping up, doing your bit etc.
Right?
Trumpism <> conservatism.
None of those things sound like they bypass logic in favor of survival. They sound more like talking points conservatives would adopt to pretend to naive people it would be wise to put them in control of imaginary tigers in the bush.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,331
10,238
136
Depressing and exasperating.

Trumpists live in an alternate reality — but they believe in it, and that's terrifying | Salon.com

In my public warnings about the Age of Trump and America's descent into fascism, I have often been far ahead of the hope-peddlers, stenographers and professional centrists of the mainstream news media. But I am no Cassandra or otherwise possess any preternatural gifts. I simply pay close attention to what the Jim Crow Republicans, Trumpists and other neofascists say and do — and I take them at their word.

As a black working-class person in America I do not have the privilege and luxury that many white folks do — especially those with money — of pretending that everything is going to magically be fine, that "the institutions are strong," that the "norms" of democracy will hold, or that "we are a good people." I know for certain that the Trumpists and other neofascists are not "exaggerating" or engaging in "hyperbole" in their threats to create a new American apartheid.

To deny reality and embrace such fictions is an example of a particular type of white freedom. On this James Baldwin wrote, "People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster."

What have I "learned" from reading right-wing propaganda emails and other missives in recent weeks and months?

I have learned Joe Biden should be impeached because he is a traitor and perhaps mentally incompetent. Biden and Kamala Harris hate America and are responsible for every "crisis" from Afghanistan to "the border" and the overall downfall of American society. "Critical race theory" is the equivalent of the Taliban. "Liberals," Democrats and other "America-haters" should be dealt with by "patriots."
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,284
5,057
136
I've barely paid attention to the Afghanistan mess. I'd assumed that Biden pulled the last of our troops out and then the government collapsed before we could get the civvies out. But now I'm reading that our troops have not been pulled out and we actually added 5000 more to assist with the drawdown. So maybe someone can articulate exactly what it is that Biden did wrong here?

Oh, and to answer your question: this guy would have stayed in Afghanistan for his 4 or 8 year term and left it for the next guy.
I don't know if it was Biden, but clearly the draw down was a clusterfuck from day one.
As I herd it from a retired officer, it should be done in steps. First you establish where the evacuations will occur, then establish a perimeter around that area, and push it out as far as possible. The civilians are evacuated first. Next you move out or destroy military equipment as the perimeter is drawn in. Last to go are ground forces leaving as little useable hardware behind as possible. The ground force evacuation gets lots of close air support.
That's the way I heard it, I'm not an officer in the armed forces nor a student of military strategy, but it seems like a logical approach as the area around the airport is controlled and it allows for a reactionary force to operate within that perimeter. This is also a grossly simplified version of what is without doubt a very complex problem, but it's apparent that someone way up the ladder fucked the dog.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,444
136
Depressing and exasperating.

Trumpists live in an alternate reality — but they believe in it, and that's terrifying | Salon.com

In my public warnings about the Age of Trump and America's descent into fascism, I have often been far ahead of the hope-peddlers, stenographers and professional centrists of the mainstream news media. But I am no Cassandra or otherwise possess any preternatural gifts. I simply pay close attention to what the Jim Crow Republicans, Trumpists and other neofascists say and do — and I take them at their word.

As a black working-class person in America I do not have the privilege and luxury that many white folks do — especially those with money — of pretending that everything is going to magically be fine, that "the institutions are strong," that the "norms" of democracy will hold, or that "we are a good people." I know for certain that the Trumpists and other neofascists are not "exaggerating" or engaging in "hyperbole" in their threats to create a new American apartheid.

To deny reality and embrace such fictions is an example of a particular type of white freedom. On this James Baldwin wrote, "People who shut their eyes to reality simply invite their own destruction and anyone who insists on remaining in a state of innocence long after that innocence is dead turns himself into a monster."

What have I "learned" from reading right-wing propaganda emails and other missives in recent weeks and months?

I have learned Joe Biden should be impeached because he is a traitor and perhaps mentally incompetent. Biden and Kamala Harris hate America and are responsible for every "crisis" from Afghanistan to "the border" and the overall downfall of American society. "Critical race theory" is the equivalent of the Taliban. "Liberals," Democrats and other "America-haters" should be dealt with by "patriots."
When I say these people and this movement are evil I'm not kidding either.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,204
28,223
136
I don't know if it was Biden, but clearly the draw down was a clusterfuck from day one.
As I herd it from a retired officer, it should be done in steps. First you establish where the evacuations will occur, then establish a perimeter around that area, and push it out as far as possible. The civilians are evacuated first. Next you move out or destroy military equipment as the perimeter is drawn in. Last to go are ground forces leaving as little useable hardware behind as possible. The ground force evacuation gets lots of close air support.
That's the way I heard it, I'm not an officer in the armed forces nor a student of military strategy, but it seems like a logical approach as the area around the airport is controlled and it allows for a reactionary force to operate within that perimeter. This is also a grossly simplified version of what is without doubt a very complex problem, but it's apparent that someone way up the ladder fucked the dog.
Apparently the state department notified everyone to start getting out months ago. How was Biden supposed to get them out when they seemingly did not want to get out until after shit hit the fan?
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,444
136
I don't know if it was Biden, but clearly the draw down was a clusterfuck from day one.
As I herd it from a retired officer, it should be done in steps. First you establish where the evacuations will occur, then establish a perimeter around that area, and push it out as far as possible. The civilians are evacuated first. Next you move out or destroy military equipment as the perimeter is drawn in. Last to go are ground forces leaving as little useable hardware behind as possible. The ground force evacuation gets lots of close air support.
That's the way I heard it, I'm not an officer in the armed forces nor a student of military strategy, but it seems like a logical approach as the area around the airport is controlled and it allows for a reactionary force to operate within that perimeter. This is also a grossly simplified version of what is without doubt a very complex problem, but it's apparent that someone way up the ladder fucked the dog.

So you think the 2,500 Americans that were a week away from vacating left all this equipment behind? Or maybe it was the Afghan army that was armed with the stuff and basically surrendered it in their epic failure. What do you think?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,284
5,057
136
Apparently the state department notified everyone to start getting out months ago. How was Biden supposed to get them out when they seemingly did not want to get out until after shit hit the fan?
If they stayed after being told to leave, it's their problem. But that doesn't in any way affect the overall operational plan.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,444
136
If they stayed after being told to leave, it's their problem. But that doesn't in any way affect the overall operational plan.

It's still funny you think it more likely a skeleton crew of American forces who were all going to be gone in a week left all this equipment behind, and not the Afghan army that we equipped for many many years that just surrendered it.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,201
14,877
136
It's still funny you think it more likely a skeleton crew of American forces who were all going to be gone in a week left all this equipment behind, and not the Afghan army that we equipped for many many years that just surrendered it.

I think it’s funnier that he thinks his source has some wisdom that our military and intelligence didn’t have or think of.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,444
136
I think it’s funnier that he thinks his source has some wisdom that our military and intelligence didn’t have or think of.
He still thinks Trump trying to overthrow democracy was just kinda funny. What do you expect from the lesser thinking people.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,478
6,901
136
Seems to me the "conservative movement" has been progressively isolating itself and insulating itself away from the many ways our nation is evolving, especially so in the area of social mores and folkways. Their clinging to "traditional values" seems to be what amounts to a wholesale rejection of the inevitable changes our nation will experience/is experiencing due mostly to the shifts in demographics and the cultural/political changes it brings.

The more these "conservative" folks reject the inevitable instead of embracing and adapting to the changes we are going through, the more they're going to try to enforce their will on the rest of the nation from the standpoint of a shrinking base that's distilling itself into a radicalized one that will resist at all cost, including having the nation implode on itself in order to "save it from itself".
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,974
7,891
136

Interesting article. Does seem that something happens to people when they hit retirement age. Maybe it is just down to retirement itself, to the isolation and loneliness and the loss of the feeling of group-membership or solidarity that goes with work, particularly working-class work? It clearly also depends on the wider social context, though.