Common Sense FTW: Judge Rules IP Addresses Aren't People, Blocking Subpoenas

[Vette73]

Common Sense FTW: Judge Rules IP Addresses Aren't People, Blocking Subpoenas
http://consumerist.com/2011/05/judge-rules-ip-addresses-arent-people-blocking-subpoenas.html

What judge said...
"The infringer might be the subscriber, someone in the subscriber's household, a visitor with her laptop, a neighbor, or someone parked on the street at any given moment."

:thumbsup:

 

[techs]

:thumbsup:

A blow for common sense.

Unfortunately this could go the US Supreme Court. And those are the people who gave corporations all the rights of citizens without any of those pesky responsibilities.

 

[Texashiker]

When I was working for a cable modem provider in north Houston, I went to a customers house for an internet service call. The first thing that I noticed was they they were running a linux based firewall. This was a computer with 2 network cards, with no hard drive, and booted from a floppy disk.

I asked who set their firewall up, they said their grandson did. The couple were in their 60, and knew ever little about computers.

Then they told me the rest of the story - a few months ago the FBI did a raid on their house, arrested the couple and seized their computer. It seems that their computer had been hacked, and an FTP server setup. Their home computer had been hosting images of young children in sexual positions.

The FBI determined the couple lacked the technical knowledge to setup an FTP server, and no charges were filed. But the couple still had to deal with the embarrassment of everything.

After the incident the couples grandson took over securing their computer.

I think the judges decision is a step in the right direction. IP addresses are not people, and should not be treated as such.

 

[amdhunter]

When I was working for a cable modem provider in north Houston, I went to a customers house for an internet service call. The first thing that I noticed was they they were running a linux based firewall. This was a computer with 2 network cards, with no hard drive, and booted from a floppy disk.

I asked who set their firewall up, they said their grandson did. The couple were in their 60, and knew ever little about computers.

Then they told me the rest of the story - a few months ago the FBI did a raid on their house, arrested the couple and seized their computer. It seems that their computer had been hacked, and an FTP server setup. Their home computer had been hosting images of young children in sexual positions.

The FBI determined the couple lacked the technical knowledge to setup an FTP server, and no charges were filed. But the couple still had to deal with the embarrassment of everything.

After the incident the couples grandson took over securing their computer.

I think the judges decision is a step in the right direction. IP addresses are not people, and should not be treated as such.

I bet the grandson was the one who set up the FTP in the first place.

 

[jonks]

Not sure but I recall hearing about new laws requiring people to secure their wireless networks. If those get passed I assume that the IP will then be tied to the household and anyone who uses it will have had to do so with explicit permission from the owners. At that point, if it ever comes, the IP address will in fact be people.

 

[Vette73]

Not sure but I recall hearing about new laws requiring people to secure their wireless networks. If those get passed I assume that the IP will then be tied to the household and anyone who uses it will have had to do so with explicit permission from the owners. At that point, if it ever comes, the IP address will in fact be people.

Yea and that law will be pulled back as soon as someone goes to a senators house and hacks their connection and D/L's lots of kiddy porn, movies, and games.

 

[Texashiker]

Not sure but I recall hearing about new laws requiring people to secure their wireless networks. If those get passed I assume that the IP will then be tied to the household and anyone who uses it will have had to do so with explicit permission from the owners. At that point, if it ever comes, the IP address will in fact be people.

This is kinda like a criminal stealing your car, running over some people, and the owner of the car going to jail for not securing the car.

There is such a technology gap these days, its really sad. How can someone in their 50s, 60s or 70s be expected to understand wireless security.

Are we going to get to the point where ignorance or lack of knowledge is a crime?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Not sure but I recall hearing about new laws requiring people to secure their wireless networks. If those get passed I assume that the IP will then be tied to the household and anyone who uses it will have had to do so with explicit permission from the owners. At that point, if it ever comes, the IP address will in fact be people.

Never going to happen.

 

[50]

I'm not a networking guru or anything, but can the ISP determine which MAC address was performing the illegal downloading? Is any of this stored in router logs etc? I recently went home and noticed that my parents' cable gateway had been reset because Comcast decided to force a new firmware on it. This removed all the security and the network was completely open. Can the authorities determine it is not my parents doing ilelgal activity?

 

[Vette73]

I'm not a networking guru or anything, but can the ISP determine which MAC address was performing the illegal downloading? Is any of this stored in router logs etc? I recently went home and noticed that my parents' cable gateway had been reset because Comcast decided to force a new firmware on it. This removed all the security and the network was completely open. Can the authorities determine it is not my parents doing ilelgal activity?

MAC's can be spoofed and just because you have the MAC does not show who was using the system at the time.

 

[Texashiker]

I'm not a networking guru or anything, but can the ISP determine which MAC address was performing the illegal downloading?

Yes, mac addresses are often associated with the ip address.

But, there are programs out there that can change the mac address of a network card, and just about all home routers can have their mac address changed.

When I was working for a cable modem provider, while on a service call I went to a guys house that did a lot of Limewire / torrent stuff. He told me he changed out his network card on a weekly basis. The old card was smashed with a hammer, and the parts tossed in the trash. That way it would be impossible to track the MAC address. He did not use a home router because they were more expensive and more difficult to replace then just a network card.

The guy then opened a box full of network cards he had bought from various places, like ebay and wal-mart.

Is any of this stored in router logs etc?

DHCP logs.

When the DHCP server assigns the client an IP address, sometimes the server will store the MAC address.

 

[Meghan54]

There is such a technology gap these days, its really sad. How can someone in their 50s, 60s or 70s be expected to understand wireless security.

Damn, you really hate old people, don't you?

I'm approaching 60 and my wireless network is quite secure.....not using a linux firewall or anything, but certainly not going to be hacked by someone sitting outside trying their hardest.

Cut us some slack.....some of us are quite conversant on tech, no matter what you think or what your biases towards age are.

 

[amdhunter]

Damn, you really hate old people, don't you?

I'm approaching 60 and my wireless network is quite secure.....not using a linux firewall or anything, but certainly not going to be hacked by someone sitting outside trying their hardest.

Cut us some slack.....some of us are quite conversant on tech, no matter what you think or what your biases towards age are.

Get off my lawn! Oh wait. :hmm:

 

[Vette73]

Damn, you really hate old people, don't you?

I'm approaching 60 and my wireless network is quite secure.....not using a linux firewall or anything, but certainly not going to be hacked by someone sitting outside trying their hardest.

Cut us some slack.....some of us are quite conversant on tech, no matter what you think or what your biases towards age are.

How did you secure it?

 

[ichy]

Not sure but I recall hearing about new laws requiring people to secure their wireless networks. If those get passed I assume that the IP will then be tied to the household and anyone who uses it will have had to do so with explicit permission from the owners. At that point, if it ever comes, the IP address will in fact be people.

How do you define "secure?" A law requiring people to use WEP would be pointless since that can be hacked in minutes. Hell, how about WPA with a weak password?

 

[TheVrolok]

Good ruling.

 

[Exterous]

How do you define "secure?" A law requiring people to use WEP would be pointless since that can be hacked in minutes. Hell, how about WPA with a weak password?

Clearly what is needed is a couple thousand page bill that will legislate the required security protocols for household use. This would include requirements to use certain brands of equipment (no relation to any campaign contributions of course), a list of approved passwords and provisions to setup a committe of congressional leaders to review technology changes to keep the legistlation up to date. Oddly enough $2 billion would also be included for new high speed rail connecting Minneapolis to St. Paul

 

[Texashiker]

Damn, you really hate old people, don't you?

No, I do not hate anyone. Technology changes so fast, its difficult for anyone to keep up.

It was just a few weeks ago that my 63 year old dad learned how to copy and paste in a word document. Compare that to living the first 5 years of his life with no electricity.

I am 43 years old, and a lot of people that I went to school with are not even on facebook. There are a lot of people my age that do not know how to use a computer.

On the other hand, my daughter post stuff to her facebook from her phone all the time.