Commodities (gold, oil) a poor strategy for portfolio diversification?

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yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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This may better belong in Off Topic, but since P & N is full of goldbugs this seemed a better fit. This is a short article from my Saturday paper on if gold and other commodities really have much use for a layman investor looking to diversify their holdings.

If you read carefully, what's written below doesn't recommend never investing in commodities - just do so for the right reasons (you have good intel on where the price is going, or you wish to invest in a specific commodity producer).

Another culprit in the big hurt

It was an idea inspired by Ivy League research. The research said that enhancing your portfolio with a splash of commodities -- things such as gold, oil and pork bellies -- could allow you to reap stock-like profits while providing a safe harbour during market downturns.

It sounded lovely in theory. But commodity investing flopped in practice. Despite a mild recovery, broad commodity indexes are still below their levels of 2008. Rather than being a counterbalance to equities, commodities have bounced up and down in tandem with Wall Street.

To understand how important the fine print is, go back to 2006, when two Yale professors published one of the most influential finance papers in years.

Gary Gorton and Geert Rouwenhorst examined 45 years of market history and concluded that investing in commodity futures, while using U.S. treasury bills as collateral, produced returns just as good as putting money into stocks. Even more enticing was their conclusion that commodities tended to do well when stocks did badly.

To institutional investors, this was catnip. Putting money into commodity futures --contracts for the delivery of commodities in months to come -- looked like the perfect way to balance the risks in the stock market.

Within months of the paper's publication, money managers were searching for easy ways to invest in commodity futures. Fund companies obliged them by creating specialized exchange-traded funds (ETFs).

The new ETFs got off to a roaring start as money poured into what appeared to be a sure bet. Then the stock market sank in mid-2008. This was when the Yale professors had predicted that commodities should shine.

Commodities did no such thing. They plunged in line with the stock market, then struggled to recover only part of their losses. So much for big gains and reducing risk. What went wrong? One theory blames the global recession. Another theory is that the flood of money into commodities changed the nature of the market.

Paul Justice, an ETF strategist with Morningstar, says commodity markets used to attract a different set of customers than financial markets. The people who bought and sold commodity futures were farmers, energy producers and merchants that actually used the commodities, not financial companies.

Justice believes that the tidal wave of cash pouring into commodity futures overwhelmed the physical production of commodities. Competition drove up the price of commodity futures, leading to a situation where the future prices of commodities are habitually bid much higher than the current or "spot" price.

...

If Justice is right, commodity investing will continue to disappoint until the fast money exits the market. But even if he's wrong, the recent disappointments demonstrate some of the factors that trip up naive investors in the commodity markets.

For one thing, commodity ETFs are relatively expensive. Most charge 0.75% a year in fees, double what many stock market ETFs charge. Then there is the fundamental nature of commodities. They don't pay dividends or interest, so commodity investors make -- or lose --most of their money by trying to outguess the market about where the price of, say, copper or natural gas will jump next.

If you're still tempted to put money into commodities, ask yourself why. A broad commodity index, such as the iPath Dow Jones-AIG Commodity Index Total Return ETN (DJP/NYSE) or the iShares S&P GSCI Commodity-Indexed Trust ETF (GSG/ NYSE), can diversify your portfolio, but the experience of the past couple of years suggests that the benefits are dubious.

A more powerful reason to invest is if you have a strong opinion about where the price of a specific commodity is going next. You can choose from among dozens of ETFs that allow you to bet on individual commodities ranging from platinum to livestock.

Som Seif, president of Claymore Investments Inc. of Toronto, says the ETFs fall into three classes: ones that invest in commodities through futures contracts, ones that actually hold the physical commodity, and ones that hold shares in commodity-producing companies.

Each class has its drawbacks. Futures-based ETFs face the contango issue. Physical ETFs incur storage costs. Share-based ETFs introduce another layer of uncertainty because you're now betting on company management as well as the commodity itself. You should explore the specifics of any commodity ETF that you choose to invest in. The past two years have taught that the devil is in the details.

Among the people fiddling with the details is Rouwenhurst, one of the Yale professors behind the commodity-investing study. While he acknowledges that the past three years have not borne out his original thesis, he's soon going to be launching an index that will actively invest in commodity futures, based on the level of inventories in each commodity.
 

RyanPaulShaffer

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
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Buy Gold Now! Gold is at its highest peak in 500 years!!! Use promo code GLENN.

:p

Most of that article went over my head, but if I was an investin' man, I would diversify my portfolio to hedge against any sort of segment crash. That means stocks, bonds, public, private, commodities, etc...the whole gamut. That way you should always come out ahead, since if one segment crashes, you're still covered by the others. Putting all of your eggs in one basket seems like an extremely bad idea.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Buy Gold Now! Gold is at its highest peak in 500 years!!! Use promo code GLENN.

:p

Most of that article went over my head, but if I was an investin' man, I would diversify my portfolio to hedge against any sort of segment crash. That means stocks, bonds, public, private, commodities, etc...the whole gamut. That way you should always come out ahead, since if one segment crashes, you're still covered by the others. Putting all of your eggs in one basket seems like an extremely bad idea.
I think gold is unlike other commodities in that it is merely a hedge; most people who invest in gold for profit lose much of their money, but if you buy gold when it is low and look at it as a hedge you're okay. I've never had enough money to worry about it either way. Of the friends and acquaintances who have dabbled in commodities, I can't think of any who have come out ahead.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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I think gold is unlike other commodities in that it is merely a hedge; most people who invest in gold for profit lose much of their money, but if you buy gold when it is low and look at it as a hedge you're okay. I've never had enough money to worry about it either way. Of the friends and acquaintances who have dabbled in commodities, I can't think of any who have come out ahead.

Correct-o. As the article says, commodities don't pay dividends or interest, so for most of us laymen the point of going that route is in expecting the price to go up when the stock market craters so everything balances out. Except, of course, that that scenario never seems to play out.
 

RyanPaulShaffer

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Jul 13, 2005
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I think gold is unlike other commodities in that it is merely a hedge; most people who invest in gold for profit lose much of their money, but if you buy gold when it is low and look at it as a hedge you're okay. I've never had enough money to worry about it either way. Of the friends and acquaintances who have dabbled in commodities, I can't think of any who have come out ahead.

But...! Glenn Beck and Neal Boortz tell me to buy gold like three times a day! :p
 

Thump553

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Jun 2, 2000
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Coventional wisdom is commodities go up in good times-when there is demand for the pork bellies, fertilizer, oil, etc. Most of these pretty much tanked in the last 16-18 months.

Gold is much more complicated, for it involves psychological demand as well as industrial demand. Good luck figuring that market out.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Good chance they screwed the market by releasing the info. If i came up with a strategy for beating the stock market and it really, truly worked for a long time (a few decades) and then actually told people about it it would immediately become useless because everyone would be doing it.

It sure is hard to know where to put one's money. Rules change (literally and figuratively).
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Gold bugs exist for the same reasons that other religious followers do. People know intuitively there is a deep truth that brings inner security and because they can't look where that truth is really to be found they simply believe, out of longing and need, in all manner of garbage and falsity others, in their own delusional insecurity or lust for power and control, preach to them.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Good chance they screwed the market by releasing the info. If i came up with a strategy for beating the stock market and it really, truly worked for a long time (a few decades) and then actually told people about it it would immediately become useless because everyone would be doing it.

It sure is hard to know where to put one's money. Rules change (literally and figuratively).

I immediately thought of the quantum measurement paradox when I read about the Harvard paper. I wonder if the reverse will now happen if this assessment of gold catches on.
 
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DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
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One other thought on investing in gold futures is the uncertanty of the US govt. The US govt reports that it has 8,000 tons of gold in its reserves (roughly $280 billion). If our government decided use part of the reserves to pay down the US debt, it could cause a callapse in the gold futures market.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Commodities are a long-term bet. They are certainly not good short-term bets or hedges. Thump553 got it right, the industrial demand for commodities ebbs and flows with the economy. When the economy goes down, so does the demand for commodities (and stocks). Short term, they do not diversify.

But in the long term, they do diversify quite nicely. Take gold and/or oil for example. Prices of both were low in the 1980s recovery and stayed low in the 1990s stock market boom. But in the 2000s when the stock market was flat, both skyrocketed. Other commodities are similar in the long term. You just have to be willing to wait. In the case of gold and oil, you need to be willing to wait 30+ years for a profit to come. Thus, most people would be well advised to avoid them since they don't often have the courage to wait out 30 years of losses. That is especially true now when prices of both are high.

Even then, the conventional wisdom is a splash of commodoties. 3% or so. People I know who invest in commodoties tend to go 100% into them. I think the whole attitude needs to change.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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But...! Glenn Beck and Neal Boortz tell me to buy gold like three times a day! :p

I listen to both of those at times, Boortz most often. People who get paid to tell you to buy gold will usually tell you to buy gold. At their level of wealth it makes a lot of sense, I suppose, as a hedge against losing everything. At mine - not so much.

I have little fear of either superinflation or a total breakdown of society necessitating using gold as a means of barter. For the first, that's pretty much what the fed is set up to combat. For the second, I prefer guns and ammo. What use is gold without the firepower to protect it? You can't eat it and you can't hunt with it.
 

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
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Gold is too expensive. Silver on the other hand is cheaper AND more rare (at least in terms of above ground supply). All the gold ever mined is still sitting in vaults..while China/India, etc are gobbling up silver in industry faster than they can mine it.
 
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